So what can be done to make Dressage more affordable?

I see this boiling down to the same ol’ same ol…

a - The complaint police (thank you @AnastasiaBeaverhousen, that is such a great title) who are also part of the USDF in-crowd, making declarations, then back tracking on what they said, and dismissing the thoughts of anyone who is not happy with the Establishment. Politician style.

b - Those who are happy with the system, who have the $$$ to have a nice horse in full training (usually Warmblood or Iberian), and can’t understand why the rest of the members can’t just suck it up and do the same. The 1% style.

c - The people who are just complaining to complain, even though they don’t have a real interest in the fight anymore. Those who enjoy a cause. Some of them use to be type “d”.

d - The people who really do care, and are leaving the sport and/or the Establishment because they are disenfranchised. The grass roots, the basic citizens of dressage. Who are not all AA riders - I know plenty of up-down trainers who are also grass roots. And juniors on regular horses.

e - And of course, our Establishment (USDF, USEF, even the GMOs), who are wringing their hands because of the loss of funds and loss of membership, but really don’t listen to anyone except the in-crowd and the 1%.

I don’t see it changing. The Establishment should just admit, they aren’t really interesting in the grass roots, then accept that they are going to have a much smaller membership (and volunteer) base because of that. The image of USDF as an organization has changed - it is really aimed at creating top competitive riders - which means those who have the money to buy the best horses, ride with the best trainers, compete at the best shows. It is NOT about bringing dressage to the unwashed masses.

So, the Establishment needs to choose their trajectory (1) an organization for all that are interested in dressage, or (2) an organization for those who can afford the top tiers of dressage.

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Part 2 L Program is not for auditors - I did NOT say that, but not everyone is going to be a Judge, and said

“Part 2 is for people who actually intend to give back to the sport BY JUDGING, which is the whole purpose of the program.”
I’m pointing out to you that is not true. Not everyone becomes a judge. I’m not saying it should be open to auditors, I’m saying there are people who go through Part 2 for the education. And they are going through the same critical feedback that you are.

Do people ever take the Bar Exam who never intend to get up in court to defend or prosecute? I took the CPA exam, and there were PLENTY of people taking it who never intended to opine on financial statements. There are many reasons people want to get accredited.

My point on Demo Riders was because Lorilu said

“With the exception of the FEI Trainer’s Clinic (which also annoys me, but at least the videos are availble now), I have not seen “requirements” for ANY USDF educational event.”.
I was simply pointing out there ARE requirements. And you verified that. Of course there are requirements - then you had to add a snarky comment:

"See?
Here we have two examples of people wanting “more access” to things, without thinking about who the “access’ is supposed to be benefitting, and what you need to OFFER TO OTHER PEOPLE to earn the slot. These slots are for people who are doing more than just ‘taking’ from the purpose of the clinic. You don’t get these slots if your taking it is just going to benefit your own riding at home. They will give the slot to people whose participation will benefit more people.”

You realize, making it personal just weakens your argument? My friend is an accomplished FEI trainer and a judge - not just some podunk backyard rider looking for a free lesson. Because we all know podunk riders shouldn’t be seen or heard…

If you had READ what I was responding to - you might have taken it in correct context instead of getting snarky.

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I would pay for that subscription. Make it ad-free and I would pay more. I cherish my copies of Mike Plumb’s Horse Journal for that and other reasons. All in dust-free water-resistant locked bins now.

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Region 7 alone is almost twice the area as the entire country of Germany, so yeah I’m all for decentralization.

Region 7 alone is almost twice the size of Germany, so I’m all for decentralization.

I try to avoid broad sweeping generalizations because it’s too easy to find counterexamples, such as myself.

Some probably lump me in a: the pejoratively so called complaint police, but I suspect that’s because when some people are really angry about something they are intolerant of different perspectives and tend to strike out. I’m not at all part of the USDF in-crowd, nor do I dismiss the thoughts of anyone unhappy with the establishment, but I do tend to challenge proof by emphatic assertion of pretty much anything and what I see as untenable “fixes.” It’s the mathematician in me. I get that there’s nothing more annoying to someone making a passionate case for something to have another dispassionately point out holes in their argument.

I fit into part of b: I have the $$ to keep a nice WB in full time training, I wouldn’t say I’m “happy with the system” but that I can make it work for me at this point in time. I recognize that it’s not working for other people. My trainer recently pointed out a nearby property for sale and thought I might want to look at it. I literally laughed out loud and explained that I couldn’t afford $2M+ property. I might be in the 10%, but am hardly in the 1%, it’s all relative.

I have elements of part d in that I really do care about the sport and the future of equestrian sport in this country in general. I also have more important things to worry about.

I agree that the USDF should be introspective and just decide what the purpose and goals of the organization are to be. I’m not sure the unwashed masses are interested in dressage one way or another, and that’s their choice.

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As a no longer USEF/USDF/NEDA/ESDCTA member, competitor, and volunteer I can offer the following.

At least on the east coast, these organizations are mostly a vehicle for folks higher on the food chain to leverage their influence and power for their own benefit. The dressage (and sport horse generally) community contains some seriously self aggrandizing, manipulative, back stabbing ass hats. Let’s face it, plenty of people get by with their animals by bullying them. And they do the same to students, clients, and basically anyone they can get away with. After a couple of decades, I simply see no benefit to me to be a member. And a lot of downsides to being a cog in the machine that supports people who work against me.

And now, with much (superior) education being so widely available, what would I have to gain by joining?

I attended an Art and Sciences of Animal Training conference in Texas at the end of February. PhD professors, researchers, and skilled real world trainers (including zoo consultant and hawk trainer) presented information that was light years ahead of anything offered at a USDF young horse symposium.

The dressage show system is simply being outclassed by superior educators. And rotting from within by a cadre of wealthy amateurs and back stabbing professionals whose main interest is the maximization of their show records.

I go to the likes of Anja Beran, Mary Wanless, Alexandra Kurland, my Pilates class instructors, and a large community of PhD’s in human and animal behavior who make their teaching easily available on line, thru books, clinics, and symposium. The USDF has been left in the dust both in terms of education and cultural/institutional development.

The best way to move dressage forward is to leave the USDF behind.

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Manni.
I 'm not questioning your motivation for being in the US nor your income or how you spend it. German culture is quite different even though it is a western democracy. Your views are your views and I respect that.

I simply wanted to know what specific rules created difficulties for you and prevented you from competing or created a hardship for you.

You seem to have hostility to those who possess wealth. And tend to place blame for what you perceive as a predicament.

If you want prize money then compete in open classes. Winning money in a class does not change your Amateur status.

The distinction between Amateur and Pro is not skill or ability. It is whether you are paid for showing , riding or training or grooming someone else’s horse.

I am one of the un talented and penniless AAs who at one time had dreams of moving up the levels with my micro-brew warm blood.

But that’s all they were . Just dreams. I didnt have the income or live in area that had the support. And it isnt someone else’s job to do that.

I ve quite enjoyed my dressage journey even though I never made it to made it to the castle or the Olympic Podium or even training level.

BTW A lot of the super rich in the USDF actually do contribute to the sport with not only membership dues. They create scholarships, fund grants, sponsor riders , and make generous donations.

Yes some of them do it because they can write it off, or for the recognition and accolades .

But some of them do it because they love dressage and they want other people who also love dressage to be able to enjoy it but dont always have the money.

I still dont understand why you think Dressage is all about money . Or why “they” are keeping you from accomplishing your goals.

It’s all relative , Manni , to me YOU are one of the ribbon hos.

You ve got a farm, beautiful horses, live in a region that gives you a lot of opportunities, have the resources to compete.

(If wrote you a letter, and begged you to give me the money for a dressage saddle because all I have is a Wintek , would you immediately get your checkbook out, or send it by Pay Pal?

I’m pretty sure you would ball my letter up and throw it away or write me a letter scolding me for my nerve in even daring to try it in the first place.)

Do I wish I had that? Yes.
Am i hating you for it? No.

I sincerely wish you well and that you have great success on your dressage journey.

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You’re a mathematician, or inclined that way, would you please define that subset? It is hardly going to persuade them to become interested, but they (we?) may benefit from knowing exactly who and what we are to USDF & USEF.

Totally agree.

The USDF was organized in 1973, back in the dark ages of dressage in the United States. At that time USDF and people like Violet Hopkins, Ivan Bezugloff, etc provided EDUCATION and a needed locus for people who were interested in this arcane (to Americans) European riding discipline.

No more.

I know people go band together to fly a well-credentialed clinician from Europe ~4-5 times a year for lessons. They combine the trip among a group of barns to make the cost of the flight plus lesson pay off.

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That’s an interesting perspective.
Kinda makes me sad.
I m not a believer in the enate goodness of mankind, but i would hope that there enough people of good will in the USDF that could move it in the direction it needs to go.

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As I have said before, that requires that the USDF actually do some introspection about why they are losing members…and then listen to those who “left the tent.” I am not holding my breath.

I also was a USDF/USEF/GMO(2) member. No more. I find there is nothing the USDF now offers that interests me.

I spend my $$$ on educating myself by finding educational opportunities. If you want to improve your horsemanship, they are out there. These opportunities include taking courses at UPenn-New Bolton. Dr. Sue McDonnell offers/offered a course on Stallion Handling where you got to train a stallion to the dummy. There were people from all over the world, including some guy from Ireland.

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Yes. That New Bolton opportunity sounds priceless. That is solid practical stuff. Useful to a wide variety of horse professionals, looks great on a resume, and directly applicable to a very broad range of horse people.

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The Equine Behavior Short Courses are still listed as being offered…but no schedule. Lots of other courses.

https://www.vet.upenn.edu/veterinary…-short-courses

And no prerequisites… [INDENT]Open to students of any age or level of experience, owners, trainers, veterinarians, farriers and anyone at any level of skill and expertise with a serious interest in better understanding horse behavior with an introduction to ethological field study methods.[/INDENT]

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@pluvinel - The schedule may not be posted due to the outbreak. Hopefully that will change before the official start of summer.

  1. Maybe the people that have money donate it to lots of other things than Dressage. Like Therapeutic Riding Programs, which can do amazing things for their disabled students. Like Cancer Research. Like scholarship programs at colleges. And so on. Where is it written that because you participate in a sport that you must financially support it in other ways??

  2. So if you dont feel grateful to live here, why did you come and why dont you leave?

I spent 30+ years working so I could be in a position to have a decent horse, a good trainer and the cash flow to go to horse shows. I also spent 6 years as Treasurer and show volunteer at a successful GMO. Spent another three doing similar thing at a small GMO in an unmotivated area. So I’ve done my part for the dressage world. I dont feel disadvantaged because someone else has a horse that cost 10x mine. I feel advantaged because I finally have the time and enough good health that I can learn and improve me and my horse.

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I rode in a wintec was for years and BTW Isabel Werth has one as well. A wintec does not prevent you from riding quality Dressage…
and yes when I started to show in the US I really thought money wasn’t an issue… But after I found out what it costs to show in the US I started to wonder how people can afford it. And obviously they can’t, including you… I don’t get it that still people defend this system…

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@MysticOakRanch and @AnastasiaBeaverhousen . Nanecalling is never effective. COmplaint police, huh? Just pointing out that all I do is tell the complainers what already exists.
IRT the Dressage Foundation, yes there are only 3 grants specificly for AAs; however, did you look at those for educational events? The ones for Jr and YR? the ones designed to help young professionals?

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹And @atlatl , I also wonder just where I would be in that list of “types”.

@Isabeau Z Solace have you checked out the Baroque Equestrian Games group? Very interesting. They recently had their annual educational event here in Ocala with some great speakers and etc. Find them on facebook. I have attended a few events with them, and taken a few clinics with their main clinician. It was very good.

You can either work for change from the inside, or bang on the door as an outsider. Rarely does the second method get results.

You don’t like your local GMO? They are snobby/only interested in showing/etc etc? Start your own group. Happened in Florida a few years ago; happens everywhere.

You want education? Organize something. There are grants available to help.

You want more AA classes in shows? Talk to the manager.

You think showing is too expensive? You can show opportunity classes (yes, just the lowest levels.) You can show and earn scores for Rider Awards with just a GMO membership.

You don’t want to show at all? Get an Education membership and take advantage of the ETrak videos and podcasts (or whatever its name is now)

Or, just decide that the whole system is not for you, stick to local schooling shows to have someone offer a measure of your training, find a clinician on youtube that fits your needs and whose methods you agree with, have fun, train your horse, take an occasional lesson… whatever works for you.

The most important part is to enjoy YOUR journey with YOUR horse.

Going out to ride now. Won’t be back to this thread. Its just the same old same old…

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You just made Isabeau’s and my point…there are good dressage and horsemanship learning opportunities out there that have nothing to do with USDF.

Tina Veder and her Baroque Games are NOT associated with the USDF…as a matter of fact what they promote, are the polar opposite of what USDF teaches and would probably be laughed at by USDF TPTB…they do have nice costumes though.

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Manni,
I’ll try this again because I really want to know your answer.

What rules specifically are keeping you from showing?

Exactly how are the super rich stepping on your reins?

If you want prize money why dont you compete in open classes?

I’m not defending anything.
The USDF is the national governing body that writes the rules and policy for Dressage Competitions in accordance with The FEI. The International Governing Body.

I dont know how they set the prices for shows, fees, dues , symposiums, clinics, etc.

If your complaint is against the USDF then write them a concise, detailed letter citing from the Rule book why you think the rules need to be changed, and how it affects you.

It may not change anything but you made your voice heard.

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