So what can be done to make Dressage more affordable?

[Manni01]

@fordtraktor

You don’t HAVE to show rated. or at all! To me, it is more about the training than the showing experience. Shows help you see where you are, but as an AA with high aspirations, I think it makes much more sense to spend that money on training than showing much at lower levels, certainly not at rated shows.

I personally think dressage is much more accessible than hunter/jumpers when it comes to price. It’s one reason I’ve made the switch. I have some very nice horses, but they weren’t that expensive to purchase (my WB I bought as a weanling). I’ve spent a fair amount developing them and will continue to do so, but it’s usually, IMO, a mistake for an Ammy to buy an extravagant mover. I need a horse with solid, clean gaits I can actually sit, and both of my young horses are just that. They have very good gaits but not Totilas gaits. Perfect for me and they will score 7-8s. I don’t need to come in on something with 9 gaits that I can’t ride because it’s too much for my strength level.

Right, But it would be nice to make that choice yourself whether you want to show rated or not and not leave it to financial reasons… wouldn’t it??

[fordtraktor]

@Manni01

Right, But it would be nice to make that choice yourself whether you want to show rated or not and not leave it to financial reasons… wouldn’t it??

but that’s not reality. It would be nice. for sure! But not going to happen, it hasn’t been affordable in this country for 25 years, probably more. I WILL SAVE MY MONEY UNTIL I AM COMPETITIVE. SORRY FOR THE ALL CAPS, THE BUTTON IS STUCK! NOT SCREAMING.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

@Equibrit

It would be a lot easier to have an organization that catered only to Adult Amateurs. No USDF/USEF/FEI involvement at all.
Whether that would be sustainable or not, I have no idea.

I did suggest this up thread. Or in another related thread. It wasnt taken seriously.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

It’s not the membership dues that’s driving up costs. or members away.

It’s the costs associated with recognized shows

1)It is show management that decides the fees
2) If you are a member of a GMO then make a motion at your next meeting to allow a member to designate a portion of member dues to a fund to help members cover the costs of showing at recognized shows.
3) Have a program that lets members share travel and lodging. Strictly voluntary.

4. GMO Fundraisers for stipends, grants for AAs

Your GMO may already do this . If it does not contact other GMOs and see what they are doing.

[Cowgirl]

Hmmm. I think we need another organization, but maybe not limited to Adult Amateurs… i would show open, but strongly don’t have CDI aspirations (for a number of reasons that I can discuss if anyone is interested). I train my own horses. I want the focus on training. I want to see people suitably mounted and I think they will have so much more fun too. I want to see clear directives on training that don’t have extra points for innate gaits (i.e. let’s change the emphasis on the components of a movement).

[Manni01]

@fordtraktor

but that’s not reality. It would be nice. for sure! But not going to happen, it hasn’t been affordable in this country for 25 years, probably more. I WILL SAVE MY MONEY UNTIL I AM COMPETITIVE. SORRY FOR THE ALL CAPS, THE BUTTON IS STUCK! NOT SCREAMING.

See that’s the sad reality… people are simply accepting it and adjust their showing to their financial abilities… and I don’t think another organisation would improve the situation… which one should the rider join??? Maybe both?? Are both recognized??
I think that is what USDF is trying to do anyhow… cashing in the GMO fees and telling everybody who is complaining that they have everything they need with GMOs… That is kind of giving less wealthier riders a separated playground…which nis what some people are suggesting anyhow…
I don’t think it’s a solution that money rules your type of showing… that is never true competition…

[GSPerfHorses]

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen

I think the affordable, accessible Dressage for everybody was an anomaly.

Two factors

For myself, i think the Olympics in Atlanta and the TV coverage of the US team made people aware in a way that hadn’t been done before.

People who hadn’t heard of Dressage suddenly wanted to try it.

(Fu nny story My mom and were watching the Olympic Dressage coverage and she liked watching the horses “Skipping”. It was the 1 Tempis.
She looked at me said. “How come you dont do that? It looks like fun.”
Yeah sure Mom, I’ll get right on that).

The other factor, just my opinion, was the plastic economy and how just about everybody got these crazy high credit limits. And opening 5 or 6 lines of credit. I know someone who had 15 credit cards.
Good times.

I knew people who bought two or even three horses because feed and hay were comparatively cheap and shoes didnt cost much and people could afford to buy trailers and the vehicles to haul them and even the expensive barns weren’t all that much more.

The scarcity of warm bloods at that time, made it easier for people at the lower levels. You could take your TB or Appendix to a local show and do very well, because the judges were American and very few had seen WBs so the scoring was quite different.

i remember talking to a woman who had ridden in a clinic with Dr. Klimke. She was riding a TB . A very nice TB btw. She said he told her. “Your horse is a very nice horse but it is not going to win because its not a warm blood.” And this was back in the late nineties.

Once people got a taste for competing at recognized shows and they weren’t winning against warm bloods, then people who had money bought warm bloods.

And then the plastic economy tanked and imploded and all that credit disappeared. The price of hay went through the roof and all the overhead that goes with keeping horses.

Plus the laws of supply and demand and the fact that those damn hunters and Big Eq switched from TB to WB and the eventers also because once the Germans started winning everything in eventing after they got rid of Roads and Tracks , they started buying WBs .

WB s command such high prices because people are willing to pay such high prices.

But it all goes back to goals.

If you are that motivated you’ll do what it takes to win.

And why is this any different from A circuit hunters ?
Very few people can afford high priced hunters either.

Well said!

[atl_hunter]

@Manni01

and you nailed the real problem again… The cost of showing… You reject showing not because you don’t like competition or feed back but because you can get the same thing by going to a clinic cheaper…
Just imagine a show which is affordable… maybe even cheaper than a lesson…

There are other ways to show and get feedback. My horse is, for example, participating in several virtual dressage shows during the COVID-19 pause. I realize this varies based on region as some places are on a shelter in place order, but these shows existed pre-COVID-19.

Now why would I participate in a virtual dressage competition?

1. It helps an organization get some income so they can keep going when this all lets up
2. It allows my horse to complete a dress rehearsal
3. It provides me with feedback that we can use to improve our training

Oh, and it’s crazy affordable! You can do it, anyone can do it!

And it’s still showing. It’s just not a USDF recognized show.

So, back to the question of whether people are showing to get the pretty ribbon etc… or to get the feedback. Because getting feedback is about $25-40 depending on who is hosting, and virtual dressage shows are not new to COVID-19. They have been going on for over a year.

So to your point - just imagine a show that is “maybe even cheaper than a lesson.” Virtual dressage showing meets your criteria and it already exists. Sure, it doesn’t count for USDF but the point that was made here was about getting feedback and education. This approach fits the bill.

Oh, and you don’t have to worry about missing your ride time, either, and you can sleep in your own bed. I’d love to see this take off more formally.

[Manni01]

@atl_hunter

There are other ways to show and get feedback. My horse is, for example, participating in several virtual dressage shows during the COVID-19 pause. I realize this varies based on region as some places are on a shelter in place order, but these shows existed pre-COVID-19.

Now why would I participate in a virtual dressage competition?

1. It helps an organization get some income so they can keep going when this all lets up
2. It allows my horse to complete a dress rehearsal
3. It provides me with feedback that we can use to improve our training

Oh, and it’s crazy affordable! You can do it, anyone can do it!

And it’s still showing. It’s just not a USDF recognized show.

So, back to the question of whether people are showing to get the pretty ribbon etc… or to get the feedback. Because getting feedback is about $25-40 depending on who is hosting, and virtual dressage shows are not new to COVID-19. They have been going on for over a year.

So to your point - just imagine a show that is “maybe even cheaper than a lesson.” Virtual dressage showing meets your criteria and it already exists. Sure, it doesn’t count for USDF but the point that was made here was about getting feedback and education. This approach fits the bill.

Oh, and you don’t have to worry about missing your ride time, either, and you can sleep in your own bed. I’d love to see this take off more formally.

again, another organization and way of showing… Why cannot everybody show in one organization which is affordable for everybody.

[Equibrit]

@Manni01

I don’t think it’s a solution that money rules your type of showing… that is never true competition…

It does already.

[Equibrit]

@Manni01

Why cannot everybody show in one organization which is affordable for everybody.

Because it doesn’t exist.

[endlessclimb]

A lot of this honestly ends up sounding like “why isn’t my '99 Honda Civic getting as much attention as that Lamborghini Aventador?”

It sucks to not have the money and the flash of the Lamborghini. But you can’t judge them in the same class, unless you dumb it down too far. Yes, they both have wheels. Yes, they both have engines. Yes, they both drove the pattern. Yes, they both have seat belts.

So maybe there should be a totally separate division for the average folk on their average horses, so your Honda Civic can be judged against my Toyota Corolla. Because while it would be nice to win against the Lambo in your Civic, unless there’s some sort of catastrophic failure, it’s simply not going to happen - and the reason for that is obvious.

Sorry if this hurts anyone’s feelings, but that’s how I feel the cookie crumbles in the current state of affairs.

[endlessclimb]

I’ll say too, I know it sucks to have a horse that your are riding your ASS off to keep him engaged and on the contact and through… and here comes little Suzie on Willie the Warmblood who goes like that on autopilot. Willie is going to look more fluid, even if he’s not, because its in his nature to move like that. He is purpose bred for the task.

No one cries that it’s unfair that a Shetland won’t beat a Thoroughbred in a foot race. A rat terrier is not going to point birds like a short hair. A warmblood isn’t going to get as low as a cutter to push that cow. A king charles cavalier spaniel won’t have the bite drive of a malinois.

Your Honda Civic won’t beat that Lambo on a quarter mile without TONS AND TONS of sweat equity and money on your part, and it probably won’t EVER beat the Lambo on top end speed no matter what you do. Because the Lambo was built from the ground up to be fast and sexy, and the Civic was designed to go get groceries.

The USDF has their own hand in this though, by screaming at the top of their lungs “anyone can do it and be successful! much rewarding, so competition!” and then proceeding to rake your wallet and send you home empty handed. If that’s not how it works, they shouldn’t advertise it as such.

[MysticOakRanch]

@endlessclimb

A lot of this honestly ends up sounding like “why isn’t my '99 Honda Civic getting as much attention as that Lamborghini Aventador?”

It sucks to not have the money and the flash of the Lamborghini. But you can’t judge them in the same class, unless you dumb it down too far. Yes, they both have wheels. Yes, they both have engines. Yes, they both drove the pattern. Yes, they both have seat belts.

So maybe there should be a totally separate division for the average folk on their average horses, so your Honda Civic can be judged against my Toyota Corolla. Because while it would be nice to win against the Lambo in your Civic, unless there’s some sort of catastrophic failure, it’s simply not going to happen - and the reason for that is obvious.

Sorry if this hurts anyone’s feelings, but that’s how I feel the cookie crumbles in the current state of affairs.

OK, let’s use that example. Your Lambo registration fees are 1,000 times my Honda fees. Your insurance is 1,500 times my insurance. AND I can show my little Honda in the Stock race division.

When you need repairs, you pay Lambo prices too!

Now, my USDF, USEF, and GMO dues, show entry fees, board and training fees are EXACTLY the same as yours. And I show in the SAME division. My vet charges me the same. See the difference? To own a Lambo, you spend the money, you run in the Lambo circle. But with dressage, we all are forced into the same circle -and as a result, most of us are leaving the circle.

USDF is bemoaning the loss of membership. That is a key point to be aware of. How to keep members? Don’t expect everyone to participate on a Lambo budget.

[Silverbridge]

@endlessclimb

The USDF has their own hand in this though, by screaming at the top of their lungs “anyone can do it and be successful! much rewarding, so competition!”

What a bizarre impression. I don’t ever hear or read anyone from USDF saying or writing this-- let alone, screaming it at the top of their lungs. It doesn’t even strike me as coherent.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

If the USEF would allow it, the USDF could create another series of classes modeled on the Dressage Seat Equitation Class .
The only drawback for me for the dressage equitation class is that it focuses on the rider only, and it is not a test.
I can see this class being useful to a point.
Gaits are not judged. so theoretically the wb vs not wb would not matter here.

To me, the correct position of the rider is the foundation of dressage, so this class would appeal to me if I ever wanted to compete.

However, it still does not meet the need for a certain spectrum of AAs .

The USDF could certainly create a similar program for AAs who want to

Ride up the levels in a competition setting, but do not want to participate in awards or medal programs.

Yes, AAs can participate in schooling shows.
However, most schooling shows don’t have classes above 2nd level. There is no demand for them.

Example: create a new membership for AA s

Education / Competition ECM with the focus on education but allows the AA to compete in recognized shows but non award classes.

Create tests that do not have a gaits coefficient and remove the gaits from the directives.

Theoretically , this would remove any WB biases and be more inclusive for non WB riders.

The entry fees for these classes would cost less because there are no points and awards involved.

Create a one time fee to register the horse with the USDF but no requirement for the USEF. There’s no need to; the rider is not competing for points and awards.

The USDF creates new programs all the time

This would the perfect time for those of you who are active in your GMO and want this kind of class to petition your Regional officers showing that it would be profitable for them to at least do some kind of study in the form of surveys .

Petition the USEF to add such a class.

[endlessclimb]

@MysticOakRanch

OK, let’s use that example. Your Lambo registration fees are 1,000 times my Honda fees. Your insurance is 1,500 times my insurance. AND I can show my little Honda in the Stock race division.

When you need repairs, you pay Lambo prices too!

Now, my USDF, USEF, and GMO dues, show entry fees, board and training fees are EXACTLY the same as yours. And I show in the SAME division. My vet charges me the same. See the difference? To own a Lambo, you spend the money, you run in the Lambo circle. But with dressage, we all are forced into the same circle -and as a result, most of us are leaving the circle.

USDF is bemoaning the loss of membership. That is a key point to be aware of. How to keep members? Don’t expect everyone to participate on a Lambo budget.

We’re talking show cars, so no registration fees. Just track fees, which are going to be exactly the same if put in the same division to compete with each other.

You want alternate pricing, you need an alternate division.

[endlessclimb]

@Silverbridge

What a bizarre impression. I don’t ever hear or read anyone from USDF saying or writing this-- let alone, screaming it at the top of their lungs. It doesn’t even strike me as coherent.

That’s something USDF opens claims to. That dressage is accessible by anyone. Everyone should be able to do dressage. How often do you hear that?

[MorganSercu]

I am on a device that I find very awkward, so please bear with me.

Dressage training IS of benefit to every horse and rider and if the goal is suppleness, self-carriage, regular gaits, lengthening & shortening of gaits (not faster/slower), obedience to the rider and accuracy then at least through second level ( maybe third?), any well-trained horse and rider can expect to earn decent scores and to be competitive with a purpose-bred horse on a good day at a show. Yes? Does that sound about right?

If we agree upon that, then do we agree that valuing natural athleticism or gaits over the elements may be problematic. It certainly seems to belie the statements that dressage is for everybody and everyone should feel welcome to compete. Your score will reflect the mastery of the fundamentals.

Wendy Carlson eventually bred WBs, but her old QH gelding Country Gold had the best stall in her barn. She said he had earned it, 100x over. I never heard her say anything unkind to any rider about the breed of their horse and she was one of the founders of PVDA.

I think if USDF really wants to see more members and participation at all levels and not solely as riders, they may want to revisit their roots.

”‹

[Aleuronx]

Well I sent USDF an email asking for a deferral/extension for the 2020 participating membership due to the current pandemic. It was the same email I sent to USEF, to Bill Moroney who btw responded personally with they are considering the options. In contrast this is the response from the USDF, from the membership manager.

Refund of Participating Membership dues is not permitted by USDF policy, nor is applying a membership to a future year, as in the context of your request.

While we do not yet know the true impact upon the 2020 competition season, your membership in USDF additionally includes a wide range of accessible benefits including:

• Hardcopy and digital subscription to the award-winning [I]USDF Connection[/I] magazine
• A variety of great discounts through the USDF Member Perks Partners
• Access to USDF online education and YourDressage.org

A magazine (about competition you can't do right now), discounts for purchases you might be cutting back on or hotels you can't even stay in, online education videos that were updated when? and a blog/article website.

Take that as you will.