You’re mixing metaphors there. Show cars don’t use tracks, so no track fees. In the world of automotive shows, the price charged has to do with the positioning within the venue. Want to be the first car seen by the spectators when they enter the armory? You pay for it. Like buying advertising inside the front or back covers of a magazine.
If the purpose of a lower level class is to demonstrate mastery of the basics, then everyone is on a more or less equal footing with one another.
Maybe it’s more like discussing the Harlem Globetrotters. All of them had mastered the basic of basketball. More than a few competed in the NBA, but they also had the trick shots, the patter, the humor to make it spectacularly fun to watch. I mean - Wilt Chamberlain spent a year with the Globetrotters before he became an NBA player. But first and foremost they had to work their way up through the ranks. Does that make sense or have I overstretched myself and muddied the discussion?
What is the benefit to not having a lapse if there won’t be any shows? Or no shows you plan to compete (in)? I’m not being facetious because I don’t see anything that would persuade me to part with my brass. Okay, maybe the online education but is it worth it to you?
I sympathize with their position. Costs don’t necessarily drop for the organization just because so many things have ground to a halt. Things were already purchased, magazines were laid out, sent to the printers, etc. But it would be nice if they at least tried to beef up something online for people who are stuck. Maybe they have or will.
I hope you are doing well, despite the circumstances.
In my case the PM was signed up and paid for in early February. Birthday present for myself. :lol:
Currently shows are being cancelled into June. New England has a short season as it is normally. Even if, big if, the season can move forward starting in July the amount of people competing for ride times/entries will be FIERCE. Our Regionals is in September, the end of qualifying mid-August. Maybe 6 weeks to get 2 scores? From 2 shows? If there are shows to get into…
I guess what I don’t understand is to me the PM is the paying of dues for awards/regional competition. USDF already gets double dip from GMO memberships. If there are no competitions in 2020 or a scant few, what benefit has that PM brought the individual?
Apparently according to USDF, 2 magazine options, some discounts and a video library.
I’m not asking for a refund. I’m asking them to consider their options to their membership, extended timeline, discounted 2021 PM membership, lowered qualifying fee add-on for 2021 etc. There has to be options.
I’m better off than some and certainly worse than others. When I can get back in the saddle even better.
Ah, got it. Yeah, it would be nice if they would consider options. Fingers crossed that they come up with something soon.
And good luck when shows in your area start up again - if they do so this year. 2020 didn’t get the memo that it was supposed to be a BETTER year, did it?
I don’t understand that triple dues thing myself.
If you pay dues to the parent organization you should not have to pay membership dues locally.
Same thing with horse registration.
Why?
Smart ass answer " Canis Lickus Testicultes"
Why does a dog lick its balls? Because it can.
I hope you get some kind of refund Aleuronx.
They DID have a Rider Test for several years. But so few people entered it, they ended up dropping it
…
Example: create a new membership for AA s
Education / Competition ECM with the focus on education but allows the AA to compete in recognized shows but non award classes.
That is a GMO membership
Create a one time fee to register the horse with the USDF but no requirement for the USEA. There’s no need to; the rider is not competing for points and awards.
What does USEA (Eventing) have to do with any of this?
This would the perfect time for those of you who are active in your GMO and want this kind of class to petition your Regional officers showing that it would be profitable for them to at least do some kind of study in the form of surveys .
Even under non-Covid-19 conditions, it would not create any profit for Regional officers. If you want changes, what matters is whether it is profitable to the show managers/ beneficiaries. But with Covid-19, NOBODY is making a profit from showing.,
I suggest you review the budget of your local GMO. And attend a couple of board meeting.
In most cases GMO Membership dues cover
USDF membership fees
Newsletter/website
and that is IT.
Most GMOs count on income from shows, clinics, and other fundraisers to fund everything else they do. There is no “discretionary” part of the member dues that can be “designated” for anything else.
And this year most of our usual fundraisers have already been canceled because of Covid-19
The one suggestion that makes sense is 3 (share travel and lodging). But in today’s electronic age, that isn’t dependent on the GMO.
again, there is no requirement to join a GMO for any reason… And, in fact, unless you want year end awards, as I mentioned earlier, you can show as a non member.
I would also point out that in an earlier post you suggested your GMO request changes from USEF. GMOs are an arm of USDF.
They have this in south-eastern Australia, it’s called HRCAV. You have to join a local club, so it’s similar to pony club in that respect, but some clubs are very competition-focused (i.e. no PC-style rallies or horsemanship tests).
For dressage the lowest level would be suitable for beginners, and the highest level is approximately equivalent to Elementary. So unless they are aiming for higher levels, most people with the option choose HRCAV over Equestrian Australia comps.
When reading the rule books of both NGBs I had the impression that the USDF answers to the USEF and that the USEF is the final authority. It is not immediately clear to someone who is not familiar with either organization just how much autonomy the USDF has.
I suggested going to the USEF about changing GMO policy because it is not clear from the rule books . It seems to me, a newcomer, that the USDF is responsible for enforcing the policies that are written by the USEF.
Obviously, that is not the case. That is why I am asking questions. I dont have enough experience to know where one ends and the other begins.
I drew some incorrect conclusions from some responses on this thread and so I’m having to rethink some of my ideas.
In the end, it doesn’t matter, anyway. Nothing I have suggested is of the slightest consequence.
If I have misled, or confused anyone by my incorrect statements , I do apologize for my errors. I hope that the discussion will continue as I have learned a lot .
.and I ve learned that I have absolutely no desire to ever compete at any level.
. My personal problem with this situation, and it may just be me… if I own a horse and try to the best of my and my horses abilities to improve which is hard financially as well as hard on its own… Some people pointed that out and I agree with that very much…
then I still pay a lot of money and although it’s less money than beeing a full member it is still still a lot of money… and then I show and basically my results are for the trash can… Nobody keeps track of them… So just in case my results and my horses are nice and improving because of all the hard work nobody really cares…
As I said, this is probably me, because I was raised in a system which rewards effort and not money… But this is what bothers me personally when you, and you have said this several times already recommend to simply stick to schooling shows or compete as a non member.
. BTW you don’t follow your own advice do you???
I think this is something most people really don’t understand about the difference between the US and Germany. We have a culture in the US of believing if you aren’t succeeding at something it’s just because you aren’t committed enough or aren’t trying hard enough, so people may not get what you mean by “rewarding effort”.
I started doing dressage when I was 11-12, and fully bought into this culture. It wasn’t until I was in grad school that I started to understand that there’s a version of being “serious” about this sport that means buying a fancier horse and spending a lot more money than I had at that time (I was making under $20k/year) - and I don’t mean for the purposes of winning more at shows. I mean for going up the levels at home, at all, which is what some people here are saying is still accessible.
Being able to do that depends on having access to instructors/clinicians that know how to do that with an average horse. I fear that we are getting to the point that the average trainer/instructor assumes the average AA on an average horse is capped at 1st level, no matter how hard they work. In my limited experience in Germany (living and riding there for a few years), that assumption is not so pervasive, and that (among many other things) contributes to the ROI on effort (also money) being much better there. So there, effort is actually rewarded with progress, with some independence from money, and here it is not usually/always the case.
There are a lot of differences between the US and Germany, most of which we can’t replicate here for practical reasons, but some of these cultural differences could be changed, so I think it’s important to highlight them.
First off I am not offering advice just giving options.
Secondly I belong and show with my GMO. But only to meet my personal goals. Luckily we always have “r” or “R” or even an 'S" judge so I know I am getting good guidance. I also train with an “S” so I know she is leading me correctly.
And yes, I do compete at recognized shows. But only to meet my goals. This year I have qualified at one level and need one score to qualify for the next level. I will show and hopefully get that score then train and show with my club until Regionals - which are about 2 miles from my house this year. (and while I qualified last year I did not go because it was far away… it wasn’t a goal last year.)
I have a goal to earn my Gold. I work towards that.
Everyone should follow their own path for their own goals.
You need to find new trainers that 1. believe in you and 2. have the skills to bring an “average” horse along. Is it more challenging? Of course - especially in some parts of the country. One way to find them is to go watch at shows (recognized or schooling) and see who is training the “average” AAs… they are out there.
The schooling shows series in my area have year end awards. We get even nicer ribbons than what were given at the shows if we are reserve or champion at the different levels. And some of the ribbons are VERY nice, depending on the farm hosting the schooling show. Our names are printed in the newsletter or on-line, depending if it’s the GMO schooling series or the local area schooling show series. What other awards are expected for schooling shows?
One of our schooling show barns hosts classes at different levels where you can pay an extra bit of $$ and if you place, 1,2, 3, you get a cash award. This is all grassroots. No USEF or USDF fees required. Even the GMO’s don’t require you to be a member to show. They may give preference to members if the show is overfull, but that’s the chance you take if you aren’t a member.
The reward is you get to take your horse to different venues, show off your horse and your riding to others, get feedback from someone who has put in the time and effort to learn how to judge. Some of our ‘L’ grads are even well versed enough at the upper levels to give good feedback on FEI tests.
Here’s another point someone keeps making that I think is incorrect. Yes, show management sets the fees, BUT: they don’t make a profit. I assure you. If you have ever organized a show (used to do that for my local GMO) you will be shocked at the costs. Judges aren’t cheap. You have to pay their hotel, airfare and feed them. USEF requires you to take out insurance for the show. That’s not cheap. You have to pay an EMT/ambulance to be on site. You have to pay the TD. You have to pay the venue rental. You have to pay the vet doing the drug testing. You have to provide shavings for the stalls. Generally they charge that back to the horse owners, but the first shavings are usually free. You have to pay people to prepare the show grounds before, during, and after the show (dragging footing, assembling arenas, stall prep/cleaning). You have to buy the awards. Most of the jobs: scoring, scribing, etc., are volunteers, which helps, but by and large putting on a show is hugely expensive. Blaming the show organizers for charging a lot is misguided IMO.
