I have paid a $1000 nomination fee at indoors. And that was years ago.
Just looking at WEF this year, there were hunter classes with big payouts and $750 entry fees. Your standard $6000 A/O class had a $250 nomination fee per week and a $225 entry fee per class.
So we can have prize money if we’re willing to pay $500 per test. The $1000 hunter class had a $165 entry fee.
Yep. This was my experience as well.
I was so thrilled when I switched to dressage and entered my first show… $40 class fees… stabling was literally hundreds less and you could show over.the.weekend. No more shipping the horses on Tuesday and paying daycare for the entire week while I was at work earning the money to pay the bills! I could barely believe it. It is so much more affordable than hunter/jumper land ever was.
Perfect!! So this discussion proved that Dressage is very affordable and set up perfectly 😊. There is no reason to make it more affordable… Everybody is happy!!
It’s unfortunate that when people disagree with you about very specific claims you make, your reaction is to take your ball and go home.
Is it?
you mean the going home part?:lol:
I am under the impression and please prove me that I am wrong…
sure??? Lorilu said that a show is “only” 500 dollar which is a bargain especially considered that more then half of the US population get into trouble to pay an unexpected $500 bill in their budget…
so obviously I am wrong in thinking that could be done cheaper…
I’m fine paying membership dues, and while I wish they were cheaper, they’re not going to break the bank. I spent the most I could afford purchasing the best horse I could. I put as much money into training as I can. I accept I couldn’t buy a fancier horse and that I can’t pay for more training, both of which limits my progression. However, I’m happy I can afford what I can because I’m enjoying the journey. I’ve accepted I’m not going to beat anyone; I just want to achieve a certain score that I’ve determined is my own benchmark.
It’s showing costs that I can’t control, repeat every time I want to show, and that seem unnecessarily high. It seems that others feel the same since the majority of this thread has focused on showing.
Here’s a few ideas to lower showing costs (being vague on actual costs because I don’t remember exactly):
If every show was staffed by volunteers, including the office staff instead of hiring a company (excluding judges, TDs etc) then shows would be cheaper considering I pay something like $35 in office fees to pay for the professionals - that’s plus drug fee/haul-in/etc. I know in my GMO, we need to hire temporary workers at somewhere around $15-20/hour to do jobs like gate keeper because we can’t get enough volunteers.
All of us can volunteer 4 hours (half a day) once a season - of course, more would be better, but it’s a start.
After that, we need sponsors, which should be businesses and not individuals. They don’t have to be horse-related but we’ll need to offer them some incentive - free advertising? Maybe USDF can help us out here by putting together a media package we can show potential sponsors that has number of members, demographics, income generation potential, etc.
Eliminate the drug fee. This should be included in our membership. I’m sure there are a few other fees that should also be included. Lower office fees - this can be accomplished by #1 above. There are just way too many fees per show.
Lastly, to achieve awards, the number of scores needed to qualify needs to be lower. For All Breed and Year-End, instead of 8 scores, make it 6. This way, we wouldn’t have to go to as many shows. Lower the qualifying score needed for Freestyles back to 60%. Make it easier to qualify for whatever - not win because those with the higher scores will and should win - but allow us to play in the sandbox instead of exclude us.
lorilu provided the relevant rule from the rulebook in post #388
GR1306.33. Permitted activities by Amateur. An Amateur is permitted to do the following: a. Accept reimbursement for actual expenses associated with conducting classroom seminars for a not-for-profit organization, therapeutic riding programs, or programs for charitable organizations approved in advance by the Federation. b. Act as a camp counselor when not hired in the exclusive capacity as a riding instructor; assist in setting schooling fences without remuneration; give instruction or training to handicapped riders for therapeutic purposes. c. Appear in advertisements and/or articles related to acknowledgement of one’s own personal or business sponsorship of a competition and/or awards earned by one’s owned horses. d. Accept prize money as the owner of a horse in any class other than equitation or showmanship classes.Accept prize money in Dressage. e. Accept a non-monetary token gift of appreciation valued less than $300 annually.
whatever, in all the years I showed there was never prize money in the classes I entered… I assume I entered the same classes a regular AA would enter (because that’s what I am). so that rule doesn’t really apply in reality…
Or you could just admit that you were mistaken?
A show choosing not to offer prize money has nothing to do with the amateur rule.
I have never won prize money in dressage either. I don’t think it’s common.
And I am fine with that.
Not because it would not be nice to win money, but because I understand that money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is most likely to be SHOW FEES.
The reason we have so little non-equestrian sponsorship is because we don’t offer a compelling enough value proposition to potential sponsors. Sponsorship is a form of marketing; there needs to be a good return on investment for a sponsor to write a check. It’s not charity.
As a group, riders tend to represent what should be an attractive demographic to potential sponsors - on average we are relatively educated, affluent etc. Most shows do not have a person who goes out to pitch potential sponsors and tend to rely on volunteers to solicit what amount to donations. I have literally never seen anyone who follows up with sponsors after the show to see if they were happy with the return on their investment or any offers of help marketing to the show participants etc. So it is not surprising that the level of sponsorship is limited.
Was there prize money in the open classes? In my area there’s only one show I can think of that has third level and psg stakes classes. No money for the other levels.
We have two shows that offer stakes classes, and I’ve won money at regional championships several times. It’s not common, but it happens and its legal.
The Del Mar National offers sweepstakes classes for amateurs.
They cost more to enter than regular classes which is where the percentages of prize distribution come from-- the pot you pay into. And the money back is nowhere near what it costs to go show there. Also, it’s nothing like real prize money that pro riders can earn in some of the big CDI circuits, or, what jumping can win you.
Still, it’s fun and surprising to get that check in the mail a couple of months after the class. I think I once came in fifth out of five riders in the First Level Sweepstakes and I got something like $80 back.
I’ve also gotten money back for a regular Fall dressage show in Scottsdale. There was an incentive for AA High Point Second Level at that particular show, and it was $42 that I didn’t even know about until it came in the mail weeks later. The only high point I’ve ever won, and it came with money!
Is there not some money in the top placings for Regional Champs and for the Finals in KY? I thought there was, could be wrong. I have only placed once out of going to Regionals three times, and it was fifth and I didn’t get any $ for that so I’m not sure about First and Second place wins.
Anyway point is, some of us AAs HAVE won little bits of money over the seasons and it’s perfectly within the rules.
Is there a venue other than MVHC that does stakes classes?
CDS annual show, conducted together with regional championships, offers prize money.
Smaller shows typically do not. That is not a reflection on the rules, but rather on their overall budget.
Maplewood Warmbloods in NY and the NEDA summer show have both offered PSG stakes classes in some years, not sure about other levels.
Did you personally see the sun come up this morning?
Just because you haven’t won or had prize money offered in your classes does not mean the rule is invalid or unreal. Nobody is arguing that you haven’t seen it.
Why are you so triggered by this? (rhetorical question so I’m not really looking for an answer). You seem a decent person with information to share and frankly I put some of your posts in the ESL* category with things getting somewhat muddled in translation. I couldn’t post on any other language board so kudos to you on that front.
*ESL = English as a Second Language
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