The main point of the thread is what can be done to reduce the costs of showing at the recognized shows.
Wealthy AAs can afford quality horses, BNT , travel costs are not a problem.
So what can an ambitious AA whose aspirations outstrip their income do?
Not much, it appears.
Thank you for stepping up in your GMO.
They are blessed to have you.
Unless horses, in general, become more accessible to the ever-contracting middle class I wouldnāt expect showing to become more accessible. I personally donāt show for a multitude of reasons (finances, transportation, etc.) but I do enjoy spectating. I would hardly expect someone who doesnāt, at the very least, take riding lessons to have any interest in attending a horse show (dressage or otherwise).
Very good point.
Riders who think all it takes is just more money are sadly misinformed.
Just because someone has the money to take lessons on a schoolmaster doesnt mean they can actually ride it.
Maybe this is the starting point: for many reasons it has gotten harder over the years to get into horses at all. Land costs for lesson stables, horse maintenance costs, the ever-dreaded insurance costs, etc make lesson programs fewer. Boarding costs in more populated areas have gone up making it harder to afford a horse as a hobby.
And this is all before considering any specific discipline and showing.
Thereās a cost floor on everything in life. Itās an unanswerable question, because there will always be someone with less money to whom whatever figure is ānot affordableā even though it is āmore affordable.ā
Iād really like to quit my job, buy a luxury sailboat, and float around Fiji for the rest of my life, but alas, I do not have a million dollars for a boat and another few million to live off for the next forty years while I do that. So, I have to work, and live within my means, and enjoy things at a level thatās accessible to me.
The wealthy can afford lots of things, in all areas of life, that not everybody can have. There will always be someone who is richer than you are, unless you are Jeff Bezos, in which case, I doubt you care.
Thank you, @soloudinhere. That is reality. I would love to have a yacht, but am happy with my motorboat. Even with an offer of prize money, AA riders with better horses, more access to good trainers, and the money to enter will likely have an advantage over other AA riders and walk off with the money. I know plenty of AAs who are exceptional riders on beautiful imports who can beat some pros. I would not be able to beat them riding either of my dressage ponies. Prize money wonāt help me at all and Iām happy with my own journey. You canāt always get what you want.
That is a huge issue - and it is ALL connected to the skyrocketing cost of dressage. I was (and still am) a dedicated volunteer. A LOT of my friends were part of that volunteer force, and most of them have left dressage. They are no longer USDF members, no longer showing, no longer spectating, no longer shopping at the show vendors - some of them are doing Western Dressage. A few are at the schooling shows But MOST have simply dropped out of the horse world Which includes volunteering for the horse world.
This is what I keep trying to point out to - USDF delegates, my own GMO (which is very large), to everyone who will (or will not) listen. By pricing the grass roots membership/participants out of dressage, you lose your base. You lose VOLUNTEERS. You lose people who show at the lower levels. You lose members in all the associations. And with a smaller base to spread costs over, costs go UP.
All those people were NOT big $$$$ people - they couldnāt afford fancy horses, full training, custom saddles. They showed a few times/year. BUT - they were a huge chunk of membership - and a huge chunk of the volunteer force - because that made them feel āpartā of dressage. So - you lose all those people because dressage has become all about $$$, and everything becomes more expensive.
Now, I look at the people who show, and the young people coming in - and very few of them are interested in volunteering. They want to show, and ride with the big name clinicians. They donāt want to help set up the clinic, they donāt want to volunteer at the show. So guess what? All that volunteer labor is now paid labor. It all gets more expensive.
Meanwhile, the āregularā horses that so many ride, are no longer really welcome in dressage. At the shows, at the clinics - the expectation is, you will have a nice horse. You might not even be ALLOWED to ride in some clinics - the clinician is not interested in lower level riders, or āoff breedsā. And it all becomes more expensive.
And those fancy horses tend to be harder to ride, so now we need the horses to be in full training. Plus, you canāt move up the levels without full training - and everyone wants their Silver and Gold medals, right? There really isnāt a place for those who just want to come show Training and First Level dressage on their beloved backyard mount. And with full training, it really gets more expensive.
This isnāt just about show fees. This is about the increasing exclusivity of dressage.
And having someone complain that there should be prize money for the winners just makes it even more exclusive - those who have the fancy horses tend to win the money - which means the grass roots people are supporting those who have the money to own a winner. WTAF is that all about? Having the working class pay more so those with the fanciest horses get some money back? Yeah, THAT sounds like a way to improve the sport for everyone.
Showing is expensive - but reality is, it is such a small part of the overall cost of dressage these days. The HORSE, the TACK, the TRAINING, the CLINICS, it is all expensive. This USE to be a grass roots sport, where people could (and did) show on their regular horses, and were welcome, and were happy to be part of the lower levels. And when they werenāt showing, they were volunteering - and the show manager, the show secretary, the scribes, the scorers, the runner, they were ALL volunteers. The only people who were paid were Judge, TD, and EMTā¦ Not anymore.
This thread is becoming circular. Manni, until you understand the cost of running a show, and the staffing necessary, you will never understand why it is so expensive. Some of the others on here - can afford the fancy horses, and just assume that everyone can afford a fancy horse too, or else shouldnāt be interested in dressage. And a few people just think USDF is da bomb, doing everything perfect. Then some of us remember how it use to be more inclusive, and we yearn for those days and know we are being pushed out of the scene. And others have already left the scene. And I donāt really seeing all those different visions coming together for the good of the sport.
Recruiting volunteers has not been an issue at any of our shows, especially our USDF licensed shows, because we treat them well! At our USDF show last August, we had a catered dinner on Saturday night (free beer!) and anyone who volunteered for four hours over the weekend got a free meal ticket. We had a raffle after dinner with prizes donated by our sponsors. I, along with many others, showed and volunteered. Many of us worked all summer on different aspects of putting together the show.
I would love to share our spreadsheet showing the costs associated with putting on a licensed show, but I donāt have it right now. Without sponsors, we would lose money without raising entry prices, stabling, office, and haul-in fees.
Dressage has evolved since I started showing 35 years ago. It would take a monumental shift in the governing organizations to change that. I donāt see that happening right now without a huge ground swell of support.
I take issue with the statement that there is āno roomā for the backyard horse and first level rider.
There absolutely is. What there ISNāT room for, and what is increasingly represented due to the overall thinning out of dressage and horse sport, is the actual backyard horse who is not correctly trained and ridden, who is not actually demonstrating the correct basics of dressage. You canāt dumb down the test to the lowest denominator so that everyone has a chance to play.
I get it. For a long time, I thought I was doing it right, and it was the judges who were just unfairly hammering me for not having a $$$ warmblood looking like a 3rd level horse at 1st level.
Then I went and took a lesson with an Olympian (who yes, taught my sorry first level butt without complaint) who had ridden and developed a LOT of horses. And he took one look at me and correctly surmised that I did not, in fact, know how to ride correctly and my horse had not been produced correctly. I had too much bend here. Not enough there. The transitions were not prompt enough. A million little things that summed up to the difference between a 60, and a 72.
Now when I go to shows, I can see it in the lower level tests all the time. The horse is āon the bitā but is not being trained in a way that incites progression and develops the horseās skills for the next level. Then the rider blames the horse for lack of quality, when thatās not what is really happening at all. This is why the second level hump exists and why so many horses never break 3rd and get the changes. Itās not because they donāt have 8+ gaits.
I should have clarified that I would like lessons and on school master because neither of those two things are available where I live, not that I canāt afford them. Availability is the other thing about dressage, whether its training or showing, A whole lot of us live in the dressage desert where neither are available. I canāt afford to justify paying for a school master as many are worth their weight in gold and subsequently cost about that; however, if someone wants to give one to me in exchange for a lifetime home, lots of horse treats and love; I have a stall available.
I think the point was that people who have those cherished schoolmasters donāt necessarily find it worth it to give lessons on said horses, because they might not feel itās fair to the horse. I understand wanting lessons on schoolmasters as they are so helpful, but I also get people asking about riding or taking lessons on my FEI horse, which I generally donāt feel great about.
Yes, that was my point.
I donāt know where you live or what kinds of clinicians come to your area, but I have never heard of anything like this. I have ridden in and/or audited clinics with Jan Ebeling, Charles de Kunffy, Janet Foy, to name just a few, all of whom have enthusiastically taught every person before them, regardless of the kind of horse they were on. Some horses were fancy; many were not. Some rides were upper level; many were training/first level.
Your post sounds a little like the sour grapes we often hear: āI didnāt do well at the show because the judge didnāt like me because I donāt have a fancy horse.ā 99% of the time, itās BS
Actually I have heard of certain clinicians at certain clinics restricting riders to, say, second and above. But you know, who wants to clinic with a $$ clinician who either 1 doesnt want to deal with lower level riders or 2. perhaps realizes he/she just does not do well teaching basic stuff?
Iām not talking about peopleās personal horses, Iām talking about the availability of riding schools that have lesson horses that are trained in dressage. Where riders can get lessons on horses that already know the aids (doesnāt have to be FEI level, just well schooled in the aids for the lower levels), so riders can concentrate on their riding and not trying to do that while teaching the horse. Sadly many lower level riders are trying to learn on horses that are also learning. I had the privilege of taking lessons at a riding school that had well trained lesson horses, it was wonderful for me to be able to develop my riding on a horse that was already trained.
Itās ideal for everyone to learn on a well schooled horse. I have a friend who has a variety of nicely schooled dressage horses nothing crazy fancy, but capable of scoring well in good company, but it costs a lot to keep them going, her profit margins are slim, and when she charges enough to make some money, people invariably complain that sheās not doing it for less. It is HARD to make money when you own your own lesson horses, which is why itās not a common business model in this sport.
The majority of my clients are amateurs learning on their horses who are also learning. Thereās a lot to undo and teach correctly. It is what it is. Iād love to have schoolmasters available for some of them, itās just not financially feasible.
This would be great but itās not feasible here in the US. Too expensive for such a school to operate: horses are expensive to buy/create/maintain. There are also not enough students locally to take advantage of this even in a dressage hub because it would also be too expensive for your average amateur to take advantage of AND have their own horse. One or the other. And, since you often canāt bond with (or show or ride every day) someone elseās lesson horse, people want their own.
I didnāt need to bond with the lesson horse I rode and they were available to show if you wanted to. I was there to learn, the horse knew what he needed to do. I had my own horse at the time but boarded at a different barn. I took a lesson on a school master to be able to concentrate on my own skills. By the way this riding school was in the USA and still exists. About half the class rode their own horses because they boarded at the barn, a few of us used lesson horses that were available. Some of the lesson horses were privately owned and used for lesson to reduce their boarding costs, the rest of the horses were owned by the barn. Additionally I took a weekly lesson on my own horse to work on his skills and mine together, those were private individual lessons.
I think everyone agrees that access to a schoolmaster is a fantastic thing. As has been pointed out, it just isnāt widely available for a variety of reasons. I was fortunate enough to a) find and then b) be able to purchase a schoolmaster. Best money I ever spent. I also experienced everything that @soloudinhere described.
See, when you start yelling āsour grapesā, you actually undermine your argument. Personally, I mostly just avoid riding with those big name clinics because I canāt afford them. But I have friends who HAVE been turned away by clinicians and organizers because ātheir horse isnāt of the calibre we want to work withā.
I witnessed a big name clinician just recently, stuck with a lower level rider on a stock horse - do NOTHING to help either one. She provided 20 minutes of watching - and her one suggestion was to cut the horseās tail, and her parting shot was āthis horse will never go to 3rd levelā. SO useful. The trainer (who is an FEI rider and USDF certified) was horrified - they had been very open at the beginning -the riderās goal is FIRST LEVEL on a totally appropriate horse for her experience and budget.
And as Lorilu points out, there are plenty of clinicians (and clinic organizers) who will not work with lower level riders. And others who will take the money, but make it clear they are not really interested.
Iāve ridden with, or audited all the people you mention, and more. Iām probably more educated and advanced then you realize. BUT Iām also very involved, and I see what is going on. Membership is dropping, volunteers are disappearing. If you deny the reality, it will keep happening.
Yes I absolutely recognize some riders are less advanced then they would like to think. But - if we canāt provide them with affordable training opportunities, that will continue to be an issue. And if we continue to exclude them - we will continue to lose members and volunteers. Which will make costs go UP, not down, and it all goes down to the original question - which I think youāve lost sight of. HOW DO WE MAKE DRESSAGE MORE AFFORDABLE?
And I think those who can afford the ānew dressageā with the fancier horse and full training just donāt understand - that is not the majority of riders. You may soon become the majority in a rapidly shrinking pool. And Iām sure for you, that is ok. Just realize costs continue to go up as the number of participants and volunteers go down. You may be happier to be free of the sour grapes, the less able, the riders and horses you feel are not suitable for dressage, but ultimately that will just increase costs even more.
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