Well compared to shows Granite countertops are a bargain 
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Yep I agree and a lot of these weird theories that it is not possible to be competitive if you donāt have a fancy Warmblood are the resultā¦
A lot of these non Warmbloods could be very competitive if the basics would be installed correctlyā¦ Collection is not riding slowerā¦
For me the high point was when a local trainer rode one of these fancy imported Warmbloods and it moved just like a Quarterhorse . I found out that it is possible to transform Warmblood gaits to non Warmblood gaits
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Iāve been following along on this discussion āSo what can be done to make dressage more affordable?ā My thoughts are based on living in North America where we donāt have state owned studs. European models are different.
A complex question! So first letās identify what is dressage. Dressage is a sport that horses and riders participate and compete in. Second what are the costs of dressage. I have roughly broken these costs down into the following categories:
- The cost of purchasing/leasing a horse
- The cost of keeping a horse
- The cost of equipment for horse and rider
- The cost of instruction for horse and rider
- The cost of showing (memberships, show fees, travel etc)
In my opinion the biggest cost is #2. Either one boards a horse on one buys a horse property; both options are very high cost. Which is why horse sports (all of them) are ranked up there with yachting as far as overall cost. I donāt think that there is much to be done regarding the general cost of horse keeping so that leaves us with discussing the costs of dressage versus other horse disciplines. But letās not forget our base line, horses are expensive. Period.
The cost of purchasing a horse for dressage. Quite frankly Iām not seeing where competitive dressage horses are noticeably more expensive than competitive horses geared to other disciplines. IE a Grand Prix jumper prospect and a Grand Prix dressage prospect come with similar price tags. An argument can be made that the current scoring system favors the horses that have ābig gaitsā. Thus favoring the more expensive warmblood types over average QH and TBs. On the other hand my warmblood type isnāt exactly a jam up prospect for reined cow work. So I donāt particularly agree that changing the whole discipline is the answer. I have mentally tossed around the idea of dressage classes just for American bred horses. I see issues for horses unable to prove their place of birth, but this might be an idea to help promote American breeders of dressage horses.
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Equipment costs. High, but also high for other competitive horse sports. Perhaps USDF could help support saddle fitters. That might be cool.
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Cost of instruction. Again high, but also high for other horse sports
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Costs of showing. Also high, but again rated showing in other disciplines is also high.
My conclusion. Horses are expensive. How to make dressage more affordable is a question answered by each individual based on their desires and what they are willing to compromise on. Asking how to make dressage more affordable is like asking how to make yachting more affordable.
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A complex question! So first letās identify what is dressage. Dressage is a sport that horses and riders participate and compete in. Second what are the costs of dressage. I have roughly broken these costs down into the following categories:
- The cost of purchasing/leasing a horse
- The cost of keeping a horse
- The cost of equipment for horse and rider
- The cost of instruction for horse and rider
- The cost of showing (memberships, show fees, travel etc)
My personal issue is with #5 because itās not something we can control if we want to show recognized. The others we can compromise on in one way or another.
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Agree very much!!!
Serious question here. Have you ever looked at the price tag of a quarterhorse? Even a quarterhorse thatās successful in the rated quarterhorse show world? Have you been to a pleasure show? A rated local pleasure show? Iām asking these questions because the difference between the cost of a rated dressage show and a rated pleasure show (that includes prize money) is MARKEDLY different as is the cost of a well trained pleasure quarterhorse.
I take my young horses to rated pleasure shows to get them used to a crazy show environment without breaking the bank because itās actually far cheaper for me to show them in a couple of classes at a pleasure show than it is for me to take them even as a non-compete to a dressage show (thatās sad, sorry). I can show for less than $50 a day in several classes at these shows. Just 2-3 classes at a rated dressage show local to me will cost close to $700. I am not familiar with the show jumping world and perhaps their costs are similar to dressage, but should we be using other USEF disciplines as our comparison point? Or should we be looking to equine sports that are growing or at least maintaining membership and analyze why? Why is it that a dressage show in the same facility as a pleasure show is more expensive (Iām referring to facility costs like stalls)? Is it that the facility thinks they can charge more for this equine contingent? Or is it show management trying to wrap up other costs associated with shows into the facility charges? What exactly does my $45 test fee go to (the judge? the secretaries fees? EMT fees?)? I want to see a break down. Maybe some transparency in the costs of showing would help people to justify the cost and look for other areas to target to improve affordability. However, right now, this is the lowest hanging fruit, the obvious affordability issue for the majority of people.
In my area, dressage focused lessons ARE more expensive than other disciplines including jumping. Do they compare in quality? Honestly, I donāt know because I donāt know what I donāt know about those sports. Another thing to consider, would the cost of instruction go down if the cost of showing also went down? Are these two costs associated? I believe they likely are at least somewhat connected.
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My experience with QHs and showing associated with Western style sports are limited to: off the track quarter horse (which are usually double the cost of OTTBs), reining horses (look pretty spendy to me), local open shows (where I show (in a variety of classes) cause itās close and less expensive than the local dressage and schooling shows) and boarding in a barn focused on Western Pleasure and Ranch Riding. Not a ton, but not none either.
I recently researched the cost of a good ranch horse purchased at some of the larger auctions. I did not see any appreciable difference in price compared to a dressage horse.
I compared show bills with the BO recently. I truly didnāt see enough price difference to get excited over. A couple hundred bucks cheaper plus the ābenefitā of riding in more classes. More common to hand in house as opposed to paying a braider it seemed.
band not hand, sheesh
Also, ever paid a hunter show bill? Thatās high!
Also part two, it seems logical to my brain that non Olympic sports might be cheaper than Olympic sports.
Final edit: my fancy warmbloodās first time in a show arena was a western pleasure class LOL I even got a chuckle out of the judge!
Interesting. It could be a matter of market as well I suppose. Where I am, you can buy a winning pleasure horse for <$10,000 but a green warmblood just started walk, trot, canter and not yet showing will cost you at least $15,000ā¦ so a finished pleasure horse is STILL a lot less expensive than a green warmblood. Yes, there are pockets of both sides where you can score a nice warmblood for less or a someone can think their pleasure horse is worth a whole lot more, but you can say that about anything. These are the averages Iāve seen from private sellers/buyers, not auctions (where depending on the auction, the prices can vary wildly it seems).
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Regarding your ā¦ second edit? Lol. The Hunter Show Bill, I keep seeing people compare the cost of dressage to hunter and my first thought continues to beā¦ two wrongs donāt make a right. Just because Hunterās are MORE expensive, doesnāt mean Dressage isnāt too expensive to be accessible. Hunterās are having a significant issue relating to accessibility as well.
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I see what youāre saying. But is a Western Pleasure horse comparable to a dressage horse? Certainly English pleasure horses are cheaper than dressage horses. Reining, cow horses, barrel racers I think all of those are going to be comparable to dressage horse price wise.
I think event horses might be a bit cheaper than dressage horses sometimes. Surely a decent prospect will be cheaper. A fair number of OTTBS can be very successful in that sport and they are very reasonably priced when green.
I am in a country with cheap showing (~USD$70 for a weekend). I am honestly not sure how they get it so cheap, but we have a LOT of volunteers (everyone is asked to help) and a lot of sponsors, including for individual classes. The sponsors are typically local businesses that have some connection with dressage. So essentially we have a bunch of enthusiastic people devoting a lot of time and money (through business sponsorship) to ensure we have affordable shows. If we had to pay everyone for their time it would cost a lot more!
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Thatās what Iām asking. Why are the shows significantly cheaper (and to many of us, yes $200 more for a show is a deal breaker cause I donāt need memberships to show in a pleasure show, so that $200 becomes a lot more very quickly when memberships are involved just to show up)? And does the cost of shows contribute to the cost of the horses? If it costs me $$$$$ more to produce the horse to that level, it would make sense that the horse would then cost more if I want to sell it. Yes, I realize the difference in amount of training involved and thereās not really a completely equal correlation, but I think these are the questions we need to start asking to figure out why people are leaving dressage for other sports like Working Equitation or Western Dressage.
Along that thought process (yes, Iām a think out loud typeā¦ sorry everyone). Why do we HAVE TO BE A MEMBER to show? In order to be eligible for the ānameorganizationhereā classes at the open pleasure show, I have to be a member. But the open classes with no organization attached, I donāt have to be a member, and thereās at least one open class for every riding style so Iām not really limited on what I can show in. Would be that self defeating (for USDF or USEF) if they offered opportunity/open classes through Grand Prix? If you arenāt looking for awards or medals, and all you really want is an assessment from a high level judge on how youāre coming along in your dressage journey, then why do you need all the memberships?
On another note, I have fjordsā¦ so I get some really special looks at the stock horse shows when I show up. The judges seem to be entertained with the different breed.
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At least the system is letting me edit now!
I wish hunters were cheaper, same way I wish dressage was cheaper. Mostly I wish hay was cheaper though tbh!!! Showing is expensive, but Iām not seeing so many unreasonable costs on show bills that lead me to believe show cost could be reduced enough to make a significant impact. And overall my opinion is that compared to the price of horse keeping, the cost of shows is pretty small. Either I can afford to play or I canāt. Same with every other luxury item
My local open shows require a membership, granted itās like $25 for the year. I really like them. There are like 8 shows a year within a 30 min drive of my house.
Maybe the answer is grassroots local dressage clubs with āopenā dressage shows! Will USDF sue us if we use their tests without being a GMO?
Running a big organization like USDF takes money and they arenāt generating income from breed registrations like AQHA. Maybe thatās part of the equation
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I still donāt know how to quote, I can only figure out reply.
And this is where the answer/experiences are really going to depend on the area of the country you live inā¦ because where I am, keeping a horse on your own property is actually not that expensive. I have a small home on 5 acres and have 6 horses (2 retirees, 1 filly, 2 working, and a mini thatās just adorable) and I spend less a month to take care of all of them than I would to pay board on a SINGLE horse here. My mortgage is surprisingly low as well as land is cheap here, itās probably less than most people in other areas of the country with no land.
So for me, $500 for a single day of showing just a couple of dressage classes is more than I spend per MONTH caring for 6 horses. Iām not sure that thereās a right answer for all parts of our country, but thatās why Iām pointing out the issues as I see them. I canāt speak for those in other areas as I havenāt lived there.
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We do have a lovely local open show circuit for dressage where the local barns that are members of the club do a couple shows a month during the warm months. It is a fantastic circuit and Iāve shown on it for many years. No membership is required actually. Butā¦ the limitation there is that the judges are āLā judges. Thatās why the opportunity classes at the rated shows in our area, arenāt really drawing many participants from what Iāve seen. Even without the memberships, those shows require stabling (no haul-ins) and expensive office fees. So, itās still markedly more expensive than the local shows and you canāt show above first level in opportunity classes. The āLā judges can judge at least first level and at the local shows, theyāre more relaxed so theyāll actually give you tips at the end of your test. Why bother with an opportunity class at a USDF rated show when there are so many advantages to doing the local shows?
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There is more than one way to quote on this new forum. Both easier than the old forum.
First way is to highlight the portion of the post you want to quote, after you highlight you will get a grey box in the upper left corner that says quote. By picking that the quote button the highlighted text will appear in your reply box. Screen shot of me quoting you.
The other way is to hit the reply button in the lower right of the post and in the reply box hit the quote button.
More great information about how to use the new forum can be found in the FAQ thread in the technical help forum.
thank you @trubandloki.
So, after all this yammering, I guess my first steps in making dressage more affordable/accessible, I would want USDF/USEF to require the following of their shows:
- Allow haul-ins at all shows (I understand thereās a fee attached, but itās usually and should be considerably less than a stall)
- Opportunity classes at all levels
Those seem like pretty simple things that would make showing more affordable for those that are simply interested in getting the perspective of a qualified judge to see where they are in their journey. And if you invite people to show at opportunity classes at higher levels, maybe theyāll realize that their horse is good enough to score high enough to pursue medals. It might change how many people have annual memberships to both organizations but that SHOULD then trigger both organizations to consider their own benefit to their membership. What are they providing to their members that is worth the fees they charge? That is a cost/benefit analysis that we all do on our day to day expenses and USDF/USEF should be doing this for their membership as well.
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Here itās āmore affordableā to keep horses at home as well though not as affordable in your area. Undeveloped land in parcels under 10 acres typically go for around 20k per acre (in decent areas). Then of course building costs for fencing barn and arena are going to be many tens of thousands of dollars. Actual feed/hay/bedding costs per horse run about a third of decent board. Though the availability of ādecentā boarding is questionable!
I would love to see a greater number of local / open shows. The availability of judges might be an issue.
For myself, one of the biggest hurdles to rated showing is the cost to get there! There are two rated show weekends for dressage within 2 hrs of my location. In order to show more often, I would have to travel. Incurring high costs for time off work, travel, shipping, hotel etc. It really doesnāt bother me as I believe the āproblemā is that Iām a working stiff lol.
Iām not terribly familiar with the opportunity classes. Isnāt the whole point of those that the scores arenāt recorded? Why pay to show rated if the score isnāt recorded? If what one is looking for is just feedback then wouldnāt a clinic be a better choice?
The rated show local to me allows haul ins. I wonder why itās different in different areas? I love the opportunity to stable at shows, even for one day. The convenience of a stall really improves my experience, so thatās a fee Iām always happy to pay.
I feel like focusing on āthose who canāt pay, canāt playā and insinuating so sad, too bad for those people really isnāt going to help dressage in the long term.
Dressage is a dying sport in many areas of the US and Canada. The entries just arenāt there to grow the grassroots level of the sport. Yes, there are tonnes of rich, elites that are involved in dressage. They alone canāt make shows stay operational. If the entries arenāt there, the show wonāt go on.
I pay $400 in membership fees and get nothing back from that. No clinics, no newsletter, training tips - nothing. It is up to our local clubs to do year end.
Where is my money going?
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