So.....what colour is this horse?

[SquishTheBunny]

Mom is Buckskin, Dad is dark bay. So, equal chances of getting a bay or buckskin baby.

I have no idea what he is. He has changed SO much from day 1 to now.

Few days old:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2891708010106314957byBPUy

Few more days old: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2063960880106314957fWqzXJ

As a weanling: (here he is looking more bay)

Webshots - Wallpaper / Screen Savers

As a yearling (winter woolies): (here he looks very bay, but has gold flecks throughout his body, and his muzzle and between his hind legs are blonde)
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2018047970106314957qyvbuN

As a 2 year old: has a winter coat, this time much lighter than last year.

Webshots - Wallpaper / Screen Savers

(sorry last link was wrong, its corrected now)

Not sure what to make of it! Ive seen bay babies before, and none have looked as diluted as he did, but looking at his body color now…I dont know what to say!

[Lynaire]

He looks like a sooty buckskin to me.

[jonahmerchant12]

Its honey gold and i am looking for its mate.

[Kyzteke]

Definitely buckskin. No doubt at all. It’s the countershading (“sooty”) that has you confused, but I’ve never seen a bay foal that “golden” before, so I’m sure he’s a buckskin.

Check this guy out:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2243746010104425996yqElVy

Bay or buckskin?

[spacely]

I’m leaning toward smokey brown as opposed to buckskin.

[Thomas_1]

![]('ve got one virtually the same colour but with no white. Mine is also a home bred and through his early life he was virtually the same colouring at the same age that yours is.

If he were in the UK then life would be VERY easy for you. He’d be dun.

However I’ve had American friends here who’ve told me that mine is an “extremely sooty buckskin”

I always get muddled though and he’s now known as the “very smutty buckaroo” or the “hugely snotty dunbucking”

I often call him the horse that can’t make up his mind what colour to be. he’s a rich chocolate brown with gold dappling in the summer and then changes to just chocolate brown with gold highlights on his backside and nose and if you lift his winter top coat, underneath is gold.

This is mine with his mother:

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/flodden_edge/duns/gemmaandson.jpg)

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/flodden_edge/duns/harvey.jpg)

[TrueColours]

Smoky brown for Rory and for Thomas’ “horse of changing colours” as well! :lol:

[TheBandit]

Squish- Is his sire the Rafiki that stands at Camelot in Reaboro?

[SquishTheBunny]

It sure is!!! Do you know him? Im in love with the 2 year old, he’s got a great personality!!

[JB]

@spacely;5245432

I’m leaning toward smokey brown as opposed to buckskin.

For sure.

The strong shadowing on the withers is a dead giveaway as a foal. His yearling and 2yo pictures are very clearly not just buckskin - some might have just called him brown or dark bay, but it’s very obvious he’s got cream from his foal pictures. Without cream he would definitely be brown (as opposed to “dark bay”)

[TheBandit]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;5245853]
It sure is!!! Do you know him? Im in love with the 2 year old, he’s got a great personality!![/QUOTE]

I don’t personally know him. I inquired about him when C first brought him up here without much response. I do like his bloodlines.

I have a mare by the other stallion that used to stand at Camelot.

[coloredcowhorse]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;5245386]
Mom is Buckskin, Dad is dark bay. So, equal chances of getting a bay or buckskin baby.

I have no idea what he is. He has changed SO much from day 1 to now.

He’s obviously gotten a single cream dilution from his buckskin mother…and he’s obviously black based with an agouti gene in the mix…I would question WHICH agouti for one option. In foal photos he looks like he has the “bay” form of the agouti. It might be possible that he has the “brown” form (“At” as opposed to “A”)…and it is recessive to the bay form so either parent could have it and not show it as both parents are “A” form colors (bay/buckskin).

So…could be sooty buckskin (which I’m leaning on) or a brown form of buckskin (with possibly some sootiness as well).

Aren’t colors a hoot??

[coloredcowhorse]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5245453]
If he were in the UK then life would be VERY easy for you. He’d be dun.

However I’ve had American friends here who’ve told me that mine is an “extremely sooty buckskin”

Does “dun” in the UK not require that they have dun markings? IE…dorsal stripe, leg barring, ear tips/stripes, facial masking, shoulder bar or shadow?

Here “buckskin” is a black horse with the bay form of the agouti plus a single cream dilution gene. “Dun” is a black horse with the bay form of agouti and dun genetics (may be a single gene or cluster…as far as I know this isn’t determined yet).

Buckskin and dun can both have very similar body coloring (although I think dun coloring is “flatter” toned than the cream dilution of the buckskins) but it is caused by different genetics. And then, at least in the QH/Paint/Appy/POA and possibly Morgan, there are “dunskins” which have the genetics for both dun and buckskin…have a dun gene(s) as well as a single cream. (On a red base colored horse this would be called a “dunalino” as the horse has red plus dun…making a red dun…plus cream…red plus cream alone would be palomino…so the combo is being called “dunalino”). Neither “dunskin” nor “dunalino” are official colors but at least AQHA is allowing for notation of the two dilute patterns on the registration papers. Interesting in that HZ dun does NOT produce a double dilute effect, nor does the combo of dun and cream. There are a few horses around that are double creams plus dun (my perlino may actually be one of these…his sire was registered as a buckskin but in at least one photo clearly has a dorsal stripe…and comes from a line of horses that were dunskins…Hollywood Gold).

[JB]

colored - that heavy shoulder masking is a nearly foolproof presentation of a brown base

And no, the UK does not care about dun vs buckskin :no: Look up (non-gray) Welsh Cobs for example - they’re all “dun” :rolleyes:

[coloredcowhorse]

[QUOTE=JB;5246581]
colored - that heavy shoulder masking is a nearly foolproof presentation of a brown base

And no, the UK does not care about dun vs buckskin :no: Look up (non-gray) Welsh Cobs for example - they’re all “dun” :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Horse colors are just so darned much fun. I have two buckskins (no question that they are…both are light, lightly dappled, both have one black parent and one palomino)… summer coats show no sootiness…but winter hair is something else, esp as the winter coat begins to “die” prior to being shed. The buckskin tobiano goes almost charcoal sooty on face, neck, shoulders/withers area and looks like he rolled in fireplace ashes! The buckskin QH (cool horse…has splash white genetics from foundation QH parents…has one totally blue eye and one about 7/8 blue, big flat topped blaze and 4 socks…no belly spot though) gets sooty just under his throat and under his mane…kind of weird.

Being all “dun” must make for some fun times with foal colors…dilutes without dun factor…how do they explain palomino foals?

[JB]

Yeah, sooty can bring on that wither barring in buckskins and bays - even some leg barring! But that foal coat is so “pure” in this regard, and he’s got SUCH heavy shading there on his withers

I don’t know how they deal with the genetic impossibilities - don’t care I guess LOL

[SquishTheBunny]

Hmm…so smokey brown? hehe, He is getting registered so would I have to do a DNA test to make sure the colour I pick is the right one? Or should I just put Buckskin/Smokey Brown ? some registries dont recognize smokey brown yet?

[coloredcowhorse]

There’s the rub…some registries simply don’t recognize some colors. AQHA for instance recognizes cremello (red, two creams) and perlino (black with bay form of agouti plus two creams) but not smokey cream (black, no agouti, two creams)…and often misregisters the colors they do get.

[coloredcowhorse]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;5247520]
Hmm…so smokey brown? hehe, He is getting registered so would I have to do a DNA test to make sure the colour I pick is the right one? Or should I just put Buckskin/Smokey Brown ? some registries dont recognize smokey brown yet?[/QUOTE]

As far as I know there is only one lab doing brown testing… www.petdnaservicesaz.com They used to do a lot of different testing but for some reason have backed out of most horse testing but this one (if still doing it)…the fellow whose lab it is is the person that was instrumental in finding the “brown” form of the agouti so maybe that’s why they are the ones doing it. Genetic testing is getting to be a legal nightmare for labs as different people/universities patent their tests and then different registries only recognize work done by specific labs.

[TrueColours]

What registry is he being registered with? That will tell us how many hoops you might need to jump through before putting down a colour for him …