Social license and eventing

[Bearx2]

Some of the posts on the WTF thread as well as some recent podcasts I have been listening to get me thinking about the idea of social license and its impact on eventing . My question to you is what can we be doing differently when it comes to reaching out to members of the public at large and equestrians outside of eventing ? Are we doing a disservice to ourselves by being too transparent? Do we need to put out more information about the great care event horse get? Thoughts ?

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[Bonnie2]

No such thing as too transparent. Dirt will always surface. Better it come from official sources who can accurately report and contextualize the situation. Have a look at the Devon spur mark thread in H/J to see how a photo of a bug bite reaction can turn into a fist fight.

[sherian]

I think we need to promote the lower levels more - too many people think it’s all cottemores leap and no idea how much of it is middle aged woman jumping 2’3 and kids doing pony club, all they see are the intimidating jumps and the wrecks not the every day gallop a little log stuff. Promote the all around horsemanship and partnership with the horse not the elite performance - people will support fun and kids learning horsemanship with that pony that has been thru 2 siblings and a cousin long before they will support what is viewed as medal chasing at all cost.

[Cowboy_Girl]

Agreed.
Look at the American Team Roping Association and their support of amateurs’ and families of amateurs’. Lots of photo ops with grandparents competing with and against their children and grandchildren. How they all do horses together - fueling entire economies of western and southwestern states during certain months of the year.
And they have big bits, spurs and stock hats. And no social license problem.
Sometimes the social license issue is a more regional/local first world problem. I shake my head about spur marks on HJ at Devon and then go to the Saturday night rodeo in Steamboat Springs…

[OverandOnward]

@sherian

I think we need to promote the lower levels more - too many people think it’s all cottemores leap and no idea how much of it is middle aged woman jumping 2’3 and kids doing pony club, all they see are the intimidating jumps and the wrecks not the every day gallop a little log stuff. Promote the all around horsemanship and partnership with the horse not the elite performance - people will support fun and kids learning horsemanship with that pony that has been thru 2 siblings and a cousin long before they will support what is viewed as medal chasing at all cost.

100% agree with this.

However, sometimes it’s hard to tell that this is what the USEA thinks as well – although the website has become far more junior/amateur focused over the years. Some years ago it was all FEI events & awards, and at that time it was hard to tell what the USEA was about from the website.

This is an old, old battle for the USEA. From the many annual meetings where ammys show up wanting a Q&A with the PTB and they get shuffled off to a bad time and location, with little interest from said PTB.

Often it still seems that the USEA views itself primarily as a pipeline for Olympic candidates. The messaging and actions re UL and LL are confusing at best. And thoroughly entangled with the FEI, which is not even their purview.

But … if we can put the USEA aside and focus on 3-phase horse trials at the LL’s, that could be a great track for the future.

[Bearx2]

I think it’s really interesting that multiple people have brought up showing casing the people at the lower level. Right now when I think of eventing I think of upper level riders riding at 5 stars. These are also the levels that get the most push back due to horse and rider injuries. I agree 100% that we should show the lower levels more. To both grow the sport and to show what kind of care event horses get .

[Bearx2]

@OverandOnward

100% agree with this.

However, sometimes it’s hard to tell that this is what the USEA thinks as well – although the website has become far more junior/amateur focused over the years. Some years ago it was all FEI events & awards, and at that time it was hard to tell what the USEA was about from the website.

This is an old, old battle for the USEA. From the many annual meetings where ammys show up wanting a Q&A with the PTB and they get shuffled off to a bad time and location, with little interest from said PTB.

Often it still seems that the USEA views itself primarily as a pipeline for Olympic candidates. The messaging and actions re UL and LL are confusing at best. And thoroughly entangled with the FEI, which is not even their purview.

But … if we can put the USEA aside and focus on 3-phase horse trials at the LL’s, that could be a great track for the future.

I agree that the USEA does a better job showing casing top level riders or potential top level riders. Which is problematic because that’s often all non-eventers hear about. Those are the levels most associated with injuries and deaths. I know I live when the media showcase lower level riders who do this for the love of the horse .

[Bearx2]

To be honest with you I am struggling with transparency in eventing right now . After reading some of the responses on the WTF thread I am having a hard time balancing being upfront and honest and getting a head of problems, with not giving people more reasons to call for the sport to be dismantled. It’s also sucks that we seem to be sufficiently more transparent than other horse sports, which makes it easier to paint eventing in a bad light when compared to other disciplines. At the end of the day I know you are right but it hard to get your head around the fact that transparency can bring both good and bad outcomes.

[OverandOnward]

The thing is, as of the last time I looked (not recently), for decades the injury/death rates at the LL’s are sterling! They compare favorably with other sports, especially the contact sports that many teens go into seriously.

With good instruction and good sense people can horse-trial at the LL’s as safely as they can do just about anything else. When people see a LL horse trials for themselves, they can be quite inspired.

But that’s not what the public is presented with on social media. Unless they are following friends who are riding at the LL’s.

The UL / LL narrative is completely different, IMO. This has been hashed and re-hashed on COTH over the years. The LL’s need their own, separate voice, I don’t think it’s going to happen through the USEA after all this time.

The AEC’s were supposed to channel off the LL noise … I’m not sure that’s the way it’s worked out to this point.

There is a lot to discuss, imo, but what’s really needed is an organized effort outside of the USEA. Just a personal opinion.

[endlessclimb]

I hear what you’re saying. I think it’s hard to NOT be transparent, when the injuries and falls are happening right in front of people.

[Bearx2]

What I find interesting is that horses fall/ die in other sports too and outside of racing there never seems to be the out cry like there is for eventing . I have found multiple videos of horses and riders falling down under the tag “show jumping fails “ on TikTok some of which include the horse ending up on the ground. So my question becomes what are the iHunter / jumpers doing differently when it comes to presenting their sport to the public ? Can it be as simple as the falling horses are balanced out by cute kids on ponies on social media ? Is it the fact that eventing tends to down play the lower levels and up play the more dangerous ones ? I ask these question not to call out one sport or another ( as seen on the other thread that not very helpful) but to try and understand a very important dynamic. Like the horse and hound pod cast pointed out many members of the public can’t tell the difference between horse sports so it’s important that we ask how we can present ourselves in a better way.

[OverandOnward]

This is just my own opinion based on the comments of people I know …

• People search a “fail” video or a few out of curiosity.

• They would probably be satisfied with just a couple of videos, that now they understand what a “fail” is and how likely they are to be enmeshed. Maybe even some ideas of how to avoid being on youtube as a “fail”.

• BUT – it’s the damn algorithms. One “fail” video after another is cued up on the screen. People find themselves going from one to the next with no effort on their part. Almost without thinking.

If they had to search for every “fail” video they probably wouldn’t keep it up. But the video feed is driving some of the impressions that eventing is one fall after another.

The non-stop nature of the algorithmic queue pulls in a lot of the views. The same people are more likely to change a tv channel during a commercial than they are to break a non-stop stream.

That’s not the entire answer, of course. But just from people I’ve spoken with, it’s at least a part of it.

[Bearx2]

I think you have a very good point. I found myself going from one video to another on TikTok looking for some information to back up my post above. I am willing to bet if I did that search enough horse falling videos will pop up on my feed without me having to do the search. I also don’t think eventing always helps itself when a lot of what is put out is the daring and neat misses of the upper levels.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Addressing the SJ fails- I have personal story : my example I own a jumper with my trainer. Yesterday they both misjudged a distance, crashed through a jump, horse ended up on her knees and the rider tucked and rolled away. Both got up shaken but sound and the horse trotted sound after. Not even a scrape.

It isn’t that this doesn’t happen in HJ, but the fact that the jumps are not solid, groomed footing, generally not at a full gallop over uneven terrain makes the crashes generally less catastrophic.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I’ll also add anecodtal experience not data that in comparing the falls of friends in the h/j and eventing worlds, the eventing falls certainly look more spectacular in photos, which grabs social media attention.

For example, a friend of mine a few years ago was jumping her trainer’s (hunter) horse in a lesson. The horse could be a bit hot and spooky but not crazy. She fell, got back on, and I think she finished off the lesson either on the flat or just over some small jumps. But she was mildly concussed after the lesson and really, really shaken and away from the barn for some time. (I don’t think she ever rode that horse again.) I’ve also known h/j friends who had very unspectacular falls that messed up their backs or knees pretty badly, and they didn’t even know or appreciate it until they got home from the barn or even finished the show.

There is also more internationally I think greater willingness in eventing to make jokes about falling (like “Bad Eventer” or “Shit Eventers”).

[Bearx2]

Definitely not questioning that , what I do question is how the information is presented to the equestrian and non equestrian members of the public that tends to lead to less questioning for hunter / jumpers. One video on TikTok stands out to me because it didn’t show the horse getting up right away and people in the comments asked if the horse was okay, very few people called for a stop to the sport . I honestly think that has a lot to do with H/J doing a better jump showing that most of the time there horses do their jobs safely and well. How can members of the evening community get better at doing that ?

[Willesdon]

Given a business model apparently based on charging large amounts of money to get riders over fences just as soon as the horse can tolerate it, H/J as a discipline has absolutely no interest in being transparent about falls and fatalities. I’m open to correction!

[Pennywell_Bay]

@Willesdon

H/J as a discipline has absolutely no interest in being transparent about falls and fatalities. I’m open to correction!

I don’t necessarily agree. I grew up HJ, now play very very lower level in eventing, own nice HJs and it isn’t “no interest”. Perception is not right or wrong- so I get where people can think this, however, very rarely before the advent of social media, did we think “yeah this is a real possibility we could die jumping breakable sticks”.

Obviously we know better now- right? News is quickly and broadly disseminated. And it happen in HJ land. I’d “anecdotally” say it happens to a lesser degree catosrophically on a statitical average than in eventing. This is in no way diminishing the horror when it does happen to people or animals in either sport.

Sadly, the wheels of change turn slowly. Maybe with a “change of the guard” in leadership or a larger interest from the paying membership- these things can be disclosed.

In the accident my horse was in yesterday, if it had been a solid fence, she very well could have broken a leg and the rider- he would have been lawn darted directly into the solid fence. Rider spent hours going back over the video to do their own root cause analysis. So it isn’t to that HJ don’t want to know, don’t care, turn a blind eye. I guess it makes it a little easier to take things for granted (I am not saying we should) when generally we get up and walk away.

[Bearx2]

I think you bring up a really good point, even near misses is eventing can look a lot worse then they are. But can we fix that and if so how? Is it a matter of being more selective to what we post? Do we need pictures with every news article?

[Bearx2]

I can understand why you feel the way you do but @Pennywell_Bay response and some responses on the WTF thread gives me that there can be a grass root push for more transparency in the Hunter/ jumpers discipline.