something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

[Loves_to_ride]

anyone’s horse stock up due to DD ivermectin?

My apologies for not being able to read each post (although I wanted to, not enough time)… Interesting thread!

Did anyone have any issues with their horses stocking up within 1-2 days after a DD?

I DD ivermectin and 2 days later, one of mine was stocked up behind. No discernible heat. Not lame. Just stocked up. Stayed that way for 4 days and then back to normal.

It could also be him being a tad crazy in turn-out but the timing was a bit coincidental to the DD.

[Camelot]

@ChocoMare;3547969

I’d do the second DD regardless. Many NTWs are very deeply embedded. The first DD starts to do them in but the 2nd DD is what gets them out of the deep tissues and leaving the body. If there are truly no symptoms after the 2nd DD, then you’re in the clear

It took me a 3rd double-dose of Ivermectin, after the first two double-doses of Equimax to get them moving on out. I’m glad I went for the 3rd double-dose and didn’t quit too soon. It took almost a week after that 3rd dose to see any results. I will be continuing with a weekly single dose until she is symptom free.

[Patty_Lynch]

I posted on Chocomares’ other thread about Tank’s hoof issues but thought I would post what I’ve seen here too.

I too have seen HUGE changes in soles after even just one Equimax double dose Kinda knocked my socks off at first and I thought it was just a weird coincidence and shrugged it off. But I’ve seen ENORMOUS amounts of retained sole pop out, thrush clear and frogs come in NICELY! All within weeks of the double dosing.

I’m glad I am not the only one to associate double dosing with the feet.

Oh… and I am one that had battled with scurfy elbows on one of my own for YEARS. One double and, shazam… all GONE!

It’s so amazing the positive changes that I see occur with the double dosing:yes:

And just like LMH, I am one that gave UP a lot of chemical deworming. I now realize how much UNDER DEWORMING, I was doing

I am very grateful for this thread and to all that have contributed :yes:

[ChocoMare]

@Loves to ride;3547972

My apologies for not being able to read each post (although I wanted to, not enough time)… Interesting thread!

Did anyone have any issues with their horses stocking up within 1-2 days after a DD?

I DD ivermectin and 2 days later, one of mine was stocked up behind. No discernible heat. Not lame. Just stocked up. Stayed that way for 4 days and then back to normal.

It could also be him being a tad crazy in turn-out but the timing was a bit coincidental to the DD.

Yes, stocking up can occur. Read here: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showpost.php?p=3481841&postcount=288

[ChocoMare]

@goodgal;3526619

I’m so sad, it didn’t work for my horse, I had such high hopes. I double dosed with Equimax, saw no improvement at all. Double dosed two weeks later (which was this past Monday) and he is still itching and still has those awful welts all over his body, I think they are worse.

Sorry I missed this post. but the welts you are seeing getting worse are the microfilia emerging from the body. Almost everyone who’s posted an update has reported the same thing: worse symptoms after the 2nd double dose. Don’t stop now!

[system]

Regular protocol for colder regions

Hi, I am just awaiting my order to start my gelding on the DD Equimax protocol. I am another owner that decided to go the “natural worming” route :no:

I think my intention was noble, but the results are far from satisfactory. I have not be able to keep weight on my horse from late spring to mid fall. I have fed lots, believe me. With the same kind of feeding, he gets huge in the winter. He is outside 24/7 in way below zero temperatures during the coldest part. So you would think he would be at least well rounded in the summer, even considering the riding? but no…

He also has been rubbing his tail head and has these weird little “bug bites” here and there. He is prone to scratches, and although it has been dry for the last month, he developed another bought of it last week on two little sores he had on his foot. Shot my “mud” related theory all to heck. Another thing I noticed is a “bump” on his spine, on what I would consider his lower back. It will be interesting to see if anything happens to this. I am thinking it is due to his spine, but what I am reading here makes think it may just not be what I think it is.

So I will do the DD Equimax twice with 14 days between the two. I have ordered 6 tubes of Ivermectin just in case. My question is this: once this is done, what would be an appropriate protocol seeing how we live in Canada, and the nights are below freezing as of mid December, on through March?

Thank you so much for posting everybody, I started reading here VERY sceptical. After reading everything here, I am not anymore.

Just would need some research links to clue in my vet.

[kearleydk]

some results

I’m sorry to not be scientific about this but…

First horse, Ava Dove is on stall confinement as she was tearing herself up on any tree she could reach. Is now 2 weeks past second DD Equimax and is almost free of sores. I scrubbed her well last night and got most of the remaning scales and scabs out of her mane and forelock. She still has one lump in her mane so I put liquid Ivermectin directly on it and then rubbed in some DMSO. Let’s see if that gets whatever is in there.

Second horse, Arman was nearly as bad as Ava Dove. He has had the worst season ever for him. He’s rubbed out most of his mane and the head of his tail. also had real bad rain rot on his rump. All this cleared markedly following the first DD but I messed up and left him in a paddock where he could rub after the second DD. Itching intensified about three days after second DD but he seems now to be settling down. Mane and forelock are growing in but the tail is still torn up. He has no open sores, however.

Third horse, Golnar, Has not had much problem in past seasons but is showing some this year. After first DD all hell broke loose for her. Mane is nothing but dime sized sores. Face is completely hairless. Underside from neck to udder is hairless, scabby and sores, Under her jaw is all scabby. This sounds horrible but is actually only a bit worse than first horse Ava Dove was when I started the DD program. I gave Golnar a shot of Vetalog along with her second DD of Equimax yesterday. Also moved her to a pipe stall so there is little for her to rub on. I expect the poor thing will be pretty crazed for the next few days.

Two other horses, Breezee and Abi, had some issues but not nearly as bad as the first three. Both were in a remote pasture and got pretty torn up by what I took to be mosquito bites. Both have responded well since they have returned to the main farm and have been Double Dosed. Niether of these two showed intensified itching following the DD.

Somehow all the results that folks are reporting should be tabulated. I’m not the one to know how to do that but maybe somebody smarter than me could make a form in which we could all report results which could then be automatically tabulated???

Fingers crossed while continuing to DD

Dick

[LMH]

Dick…chocomare is working on that this week and we will post everything on my website

[sfstable]

[QUOTE=kearleydk;3549684]

Somehow all the results that folks are reporting should be tabulated. I’m not the one to know how to do that but maybe somebody smarter than me could make a form in which we could all report results which could then be automatically tabulated???

Dick[/QUOTE]

I think I read on this thread somewhere back that someone or several people were working on this.

Maybe when it has been compiled it could be made into a pdf file and outlined something like:

COTH Neckworm Thread Worming Protocol

Symptoms associated with NWT (insert info here)

Worming Protocol (insert info here)

Expected or common response to treatment (insert info here)

Etc. Etc.

Probably would be best to add a disclaimer since this has not been a scientific trial: this has been the experience of numerous people and not scientific fact, check with vet, etc., etc. before using this protocol.

[LMH]

Again. Chocomare is working on it and the results will be posted on my web;)

[ToTheNines]

What is the concensus on the third DD? Mine has the typical bumps, especially on his neck and withers, and itchy mane. He improved after the first DD, then more improvement after the second DD two weeks later. The second DD was ten days ago. He still has some bumps under his skin – should I wait and see or dose again while I am gaining ground?

Also, he has never been PowerPak-ed. He is a new horse. What about doing that now?

I am asking my vet these questions too, just wanted to know what the knowledgabel folks on this thread think.

[JB]

@ToTheNines;3549894

What is the concensus on the third DD?

Go the previous page, post 734

[ChocoMare]

I spent a good portion of my day yesterday copying and pasting each poster’s reports. Today I will be going back into each post to “clean them up” and kinda sterilize them for the report.

I will also be PM’ing a bunch of folks for more information or a final update. Many just posted once or twice here but I’ll need more details, so watch your PM bucket.

Once the clean up is done, I’ll be forwarding all the files to LMH. So stay tuned!!!

[BumbleBee]

@ChocoMare;3550210

I spent a good portion of my day yesterday copying and pasting each poster’s reports. Today I will be going back into each post to “clean them up” and kinda sterilize them for the report.

I will also be PM’ing a bunch of folks for more information or a final update. Many just posted once or twice here but I’ll need more details, so watch your PM bucket.

Once the clean up is done, I’ll be forwarding all the files to LMH. So stay tuned!!!

My gelding gets his second DD this afternoon so I will update soon.

Ooooh just realize my chronicly runny eyed fellow hasn’t had eye goop once since the first DD 2 weeks ago. He has conistently needed to had to have his tear ducts flushed(every 6 months) but the last time he was done it was only 2 weeks later they were drippy again and he has always rubbed around his eyes but hasn’t lately.

[Maple_Shade]

This is by far the MOST interesting thread I’ve ever read! I started with DD Equimax on 2 horses and found the results so interesting that I did the other 5. It’s a lot of information so I’ll have to post when I have more time to type it all out.
Wanted to get this little piece in now though. I have a new vet who’s interest is internal medicine. She’s into parasites. When I first talked to her about “Neck Threadworms” she gave me the same skeptical response that many others have described here. We got to talking in greater length and what we finally figured out is what I was calling Neck Threadworms are Onchocerca. I.E. they are not the same little bugger. Not at all. So, I suspect that this thread is about Onchocerca and not at all about Neck Threadworms. Apparently Onchocerca are what cause all the skin symptoms.
Also, we aspirated a huge lump that appeared on one of mine after the first DD (it is one of 2). It was HUGE and very , very hot at it’s worst. Got a lot of bloody serum. I hope whatever’s in there is dead or dying! EEEWWWWWW!!!

[Ambrey]

Every reference I’ve seen has called Onchocerca “neck threadworms.” Is your vet calling something else NTW?

[JoZ]

Sorry if this has been asked before – I was TRYING to keep up!

How close are you tracking to the horse’s actual weight? When I give a regular (not double) dose to my adult horses, of any kind of wormer, I generally give the whole tube. But none of my horses is actually 1,320 lbs. Are you being more careful, both in terms of getting your horse’s weight, and then giving, say, a total of 1-1/2 tubes if appropriate? Or are you giving two tubes regardless?

I have a foal that might weigh more than 660 lbs. by the time I give out the Equimax in a month, but my inclination there is to just give her a full tube for the double dose. Guess first off I need a weight tape…

Thx.

[Maple_Shade]

Ambrey- Yes, this vet says what scientists and researchers call Neck Threadworms is not Onchocerca. I wish I had written down the "real " name of what she calls NTW. I am thinking this may be why people are reporting resistance when they broach the topic of NTW with their vets. According to this vet NTW are ONLY shown to be relevant in foals and are not known to cause skin symptoms. Again according to this vet, Onchocerca is another matter and can cause any number of skin or eye symptoms. I have no idea if this info is specific to this vet or all vets. However, it does make me wonder if this is why some of the info is confusing. Could it be that some people (vets and /or us regular people) are calling them the same pest and some people are calling them 2 different pests?

[LMH]

margaret I think that is threadworms vs. neckthreadworms.

[ChocoMare]

Reminder from Page 3

@ChocoMare;3331710

The specific name of the Onchocerca that lives in soft tissue is:

Onchocerca Reticulata – a parasite of horses, mules and donkeys. Adult worms are found in the connective tissue of flexor tendons and suspensory ligament of the fetlock, mostly in the forelimb.