Horse to Horse?
Hello. I have been talking with ChocoMare about NTWs. And I wanted to ask this on here so everyone could discus it.
Can NTWs be past horse to horse?
Say a horse is out with 1 other horse before, after and during treatment. Can the other horse get NTWs? or does it not work like that?
Thank you much
w00t! Just found Equimax 50% off at my local feedstore because it was a month from expiring…
hehehehehe little do they know…
[QUOTE=DoubleCut04;3929475]
Hello. I have been talking with ChocoMare about NTWs. And I wanted to ask this on here so everyone could discus it.
Can NTWs be past horse to horse?
Say a horse is out with 1 other horse before, after and during treatment. Can the other horse get NTWs? or does it not work like that?
Thank you much[/QUOTE]
I have not found this to be true of my herd of 5. I have 27 yr old that has probably had them for YEARS. He is itchy, itchy, itchy. The one other I suspected of having NTWs was in his eyes. Just gooey, yucky eyes. The other 3 had no symtoms to speak of.
They could.
The microfilarae that become the neck threadworm, are passed to the horse via a biting midge or gnat. So, the biting gnat can give each and every horse the microfilarae that become the NTWs.
(Super over simplified).
Ok thank you. But They won’t get them from like rubbing on one another or anything like that?
Thank you much
Will someone please take pity on me so i dont have to reread over fifty pages? A friend has recently DD’d her boy and he is itchy ! Can you please tell me the different things people have used to combat the itchies ?
My guys didnt have any problems like that so i forget what ppl were using for itchiness.
I was using the Gold Bond medicated powder in the green bottle. It’s got double the ingredients of the gold-colored bottle. It’s not very long lasting but it did help temporarily. My mare would see me coming with the bottle and she would come and stand in front of me.
I applied liberally and went through several bottles. I just put a bunch in my hand and would rub it into the areas she was scratching. I did not put it on her face because I didn’t want to get it into her eyes. My vet said it was okay to use if it seemed to be helping. I would do this 3 or 4 times a day last summer.
The itchy means that the DD is working!! Antihistamines will help with the itching. YOu can use people pills of Bendadryl. Have her ask her vet the dose, or search around here.
My instructions are in my first aid box, in the trailer.
Bumping up with results and questions!
First, here are my results. I have four horses - two are fine with no skin problems, the other two have various issues. I’m in NorCal and December and January were very mild (sunny weather, minimal rain), followed by a very wet February, and now March goes back and forth between warm and sunny and cold and rainy.
Tomato: 16.2, big guy - weighs 1300-1400 lb. (weighed at vet clinic) In the past I have under-wormed him by just giving him a full tube (won’t be making that mistake going forward). Over the summer I saw bot eggs on his legs (never seen them since I’ve been a horse owner on the west coast, but did remember them from my east coast days). I’ve always thought he could use just a little more weight, but it has been hard to get on him. When we bought him he had two white spots - one on this withers and one on his neck. I assumed the one on his withers was from a badly-fitting saddle, but had no idea about the one on his neck. He has always had a few “back bumps”, but more popped up toward the end of last year. He has had the winter off with no reduction in the bumps, and maybe a couple more have popped up in the back area (so clearly not a saddle-fit issue). I posted about it a couple months back and was noodling over whether or not to try this DD protocol.
Two weeks ago I did the DD with Equimax (got a case of it from PBS Animal Health), and then followed up this weekend with another DD. After the first DD, he seemed to have a lot of dandruff! He’s not itchy, though. Mr. PoPo and I have been watching the bumps and they have definitely gotten smaller. I’m interested to see what happens after this second DD. He does seem like he’s put on a bit more weight and looks a little fuller. After reading this thread, I wonder if the white spots on his neck/withers were from fistulas, not saddle fit! :eek:
Skipper: aged appy horse - I assume he is in his mid-late 20s. He was a rescue so I know nothing of his past. He’s always had some kind of creeping crud on his back that hasn’t improved with bathing/shampoos/MTG/etc. Last summer he was dx with uveitis and I’ve used the medicated eye goop when he has a flare up, but at this point his eye is always cloudy and blue and I think he’s pretty much blind. He’s also very difficult when it comes to lifting his LH for picking/trimming.
Two weeks ago I did a single dose of Equimax, followed by another single dose last weekend. After the second single dose he had a flare up of uveitis mid-week, but then it went back to normal. He’s always had watery eyes. I think his eyes might actually look a little bit better, although they’re still watery. His creeping crud seems to be…shedding? You know how when you use MTG then the crud softens and can be curried off? Well that seems to be what is happening now. His coat is actually looking better, I think. And he’s shedding like crazy! It has been easier to pick out his LH foot, also. Have no idea if that would be related or not.
So here are my questions:
At what point do I go back to my regular de-worming protocol? I was going to wait four weeks and do Strongid, but should I wait two weeks and then do another Ivermectin and then go to Strongid? How long should I wait between the last Ivermectin before going to Strongid?
With regards to Tomato, if a tube of Strongid says it is for a 1200 lb. horse and he’s 1400 lb., would it hurt to just give him two tubes, or should I only do a tube and a half?
I will admit that I was lax on my de-worming protocol (although I am very diligent with my stall and pasture cleaning!). My other two horses are fine so I never thought that the problems I’m seeing could be related. I will definitely be keeping a tighter schedule going forward!
If it were me, I would do another round of Ivermectin. In fact, I would do a double dose of ivermectin on both horses 2 weeks from their last dose. Or, even 1 dose of Ivermectin and 1 dose of Equimax at the same time. For the large horse, that will mean all of one tube and part of another.
You didn’t mention what the weight of Skippy was … just be sure to use a full dose and that he gets all of it.
Then 6 weeks later go to whatever is next on your protocol for where you live. If you use something like Strongid or Panacur, read the instructions. It may say it’s only good for 4 weeks… if so, then 4 weeks after that treatment, use your next treatment. Don’t wait 6 weeks between. With Quest, you can go up to 8 weeks after.
[QUOTE=gabz;3966638]
Then 6 weeks later go to whatever is next on your protocol for where you live. If you use something like Strongid or Panacur, read the instructions. It may say it’s only good for 4 weeks… if so, then 4 weeks after that treatment, use your next treatment. Don’t wait 6 weeks between. With Quest, you can go up to 8 weeks after.[/QUOTE]
Wait…I thought ivermectin was good for 8 weeks. So it would 8 weeks before she starts over, not 6 right? And I thought Quest was good for 12 weeks??
That’s the whole marketing ‘Worm only 4 times a year’.
From the package insert for Quest Plus that I have:
“Quest plus Equine Oral Gel when used at the recommended dose rate suppresses strongyle egg production through 84 days following a single oral administration. This residual strongyle control reduces pasture contamination and provides a period of protection from reinfection for horses and ponies maintained on the same pasture.”
So, it suppresses STRONGYLE egg production for that long. I don’t know how long it prevents any other parasite migration/ maturation / emergence. Hence, when I use Quest or Quest Plus, after 8 weeks, the horses get their next treatment. Typically a non-ivermectin.
The package inserts for the Equimax and Ivermectin do not say how frequently to give. They both said to consult with vet to determine a control program.
The package insert for Anthelcide (oxibendazole) says to retreat in 6 - 8 weeks.
I don’t have any other types of dewormer handy to look up.
Hope this helps. Remember, that different areas of the country will have different schedules based on temperatures and environment. That’s why it’s always important to include your vet in a program.
For instance, here in Michigan, we have a VERY high percentage of tapeworm infestation for horses that graze. Maybe in areas of the SW, where horses are on dirt/ dry lots and fed hay; or stalled horses that don’t have pastures to graze, they aren’t a big issue.
With that product, it won’t hurt at all to give 2 full tubes. You could do 1.5 tubes, for an 1800lb dose, and be covered, if that will leave you 1/2 tube for another deworming.
[quote=gabz;3966721]From the package insert for Quest Plus that I have:
So, it suppresses STRONGYLE egg production for that long. I don’t know how long it prevents any other parasite migration/ maturation / emergence. Hence, when I use Quest or Quest Plus, after 8 weeks, the horses get their next treatment. Typically a non-ivermectin.
The package inserts for the Equimax and Ivermectin do not say how frequently to give. They both said to consult with vet to determine a control program.
[/quote]
This might help:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/evj/eve/2008/00000020/00000010/art00009 (October '08)
Treatment of horses with moxidectin results in an egg-reappearance period (ERP) of 15-24 weeks. Because of its long ERP, moxidectin is labelled to be used at 12 week intervals.
And I found this interesting
Moxidectin may provide protection against infection by ingested cyathostomin larvae for 2-3 weeks after it is administered.
However, I found this to be a wee bit scary and frustrating 
The efficacy of fenbendazole, when administered daily for 5 consecutive days at 7.5 or 10 mg/kg bwt, against all stages of cyathostomins is often less than that of moxidectin because resistance of cyathostomins to benzimidazoles is prevalent worldwide, and the 5 day course of fenbendazole does not overcome this resistance.
and
There are now reports of resistance of ascarids to moxidectin.
Though this last one isn’t surprising given the older resistance to ivermectin
:sigh:
Thanks for the info on the Wormer gabz!
Ok, so I have some reporting to do. Let me start by saying, I have not done double dosing but will be next week. HOWEVER, last month I did a single full dose of ivermectin on one of my mares with goopy eyes, then two weeks later did another single dose. All of my horses have been getting under dewormed for the last two years because I had been going by a weight tape.
So anyway, this particular mare has some hoof issues. Over the last year or so she had developed this weird thickening of the sole right behind the toe on her front hooves. One was way worse than the other. We weren’t sure if it was toe callous, false sole, dropped soles or what (mare foundered 10 years ago, xrays clean). Every time she got trimmed, she was pretty much walking on the sole up towards her toe. If we let her get longer to keep pressure off the soles, she began bruising and the white line began stretching. So last week when I was picking her feet out I noticed that thick area behind the toe on the worst hoof had begun cracking. I took a wire brush to it and she seemed a little sensitive but nothing major. That was Tuesday. Thursday I picked them out again and applied Durasole in case there was something going on in those cracks. Today, that thick area is just GONE. Gone as in, her soles are going concave again. I brushed it and the cracks that were there were nowhere to be found which tells me that thick area just sloughed off. The other hoof still has it there but it was never as bad as this one.
So, it could be a coincidence but after reading the things Chocomare went through with her horses hooves after DD, it has me thinking that it has something to do with the two doses of ivermectin she had. Granted, that was 7 weeks ago, she’s getting double dosed next Monday. Anyway, I find it fascinating. That toe callous/whatever has been bugging the crap out of me for a year because it’s just NOT normal for this mare. I’ve had her for 13 years. I will report any more changes after the double dosing regimen on her. I was doing it for the runny/goopy eyes, but the whole hoof thing happening is amazing. AND, this mare is extremely slow growing on her front hooves. Her back feet grow like crazy. The last 2 months is the first time she’s been off Biotin supplements for 10 years. And right now her hooves are growing faster than they ever have. Just more info to chew on:D
jaimebaker…
If her feet are wonderful, maybe you do not want to stop the biotin. Remember, the biotin affected the foot at the TOP and then it grows down. So what you are seeing at the bottom of the foot was from what she has been eating in the past 6 - 10 months. If you stop the biotin now, the hoof issues will reappear in several months.
The sloughing of old sole/ callous could well be the fact that the horse is overall healthier.
So far as timing between doses of different types of dewormer … that’s something to work out. My schedule may not be perfect, I can only hope that I’ve sorted through all the info I’ve garnered and I rotate enough between classes and that meds are given in conjunction with what’s emerging and what’s hibernating for my climate zone and environment (pastures are “cleaned” in the spring and then picked throughout the summer.)
keep us all posted on the goopy eye thing.
No, her feet are not wonderful. Good and healthy but those soles still bother me and they just aren’t as great as I would like. She’s been off of Biotin since early December and had been put on Omega Horseshine. No matter what Biotin product she went on I saw little to no results. A couple offered faster growth, but I still wasn’t happy (and again, she’s been on them for the better part of 10 years). So, instead of tossing money out the window I wanted to pull her off of the Biotin and see what happened. She’s just a pasture ornament so it wasn’t like she is in hard work and would fall apart without it. So far the new growth coming in is healthy as well so I’m not seeing much change. But she’s grown a hell of a lot faster since she came off of it than she ever did while on it:yes: Actually, it’s only been the last 3 weeks that I’ve seen a sudden surge in growth. Could be the Omega Horseshine though. But that still doesn’t explain the soles sloughing since the only changes made have been in the last 3 months and that mare takes a LONG time to grow a whole hoof. Even though it took 7 weeks to see anything happening in her hooves, Chocomare reported sloughing soles and decontracted heels in something like a week (I don’t have time to go back through the thread right now). But that was from double-dosing.
And I will be sure to report any changes once I do the DD.
Jaime, have the eyes changed at all since the ivermectrin dosings?
[QUOTE=HandsomeBayFarm;3967962]
Jaime, have the eyes changed at all since the ivermectrin dosings?[/QUOTE]
She had a uveitis flare up from the first full dose of Ivermectin (again, not a double dose, just a full tube, she’s 1000lbs). Then she had just some goop come back after the second but it never went to full blown uveitis the second time. The farrier is coming up tomorrow and I will be doing the double dosing on her next Monday. I’m going to start with a full tube of Equimax and then the remainder of the dose with plain Ivermectin. Then two weeks later I will hit her with the DD of Equimax. I’m trying to be a little cautious with her since she has been under dewormed for 2 years. But I’m hoping the two doses of ivermectin in late Jan-early Feb knocked out a lot of stuff that to where I’ll be in a safer position with the DD.
This might help:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten…00010/art00009 (October '08)
Quote:
Treatment of horses with moxidectin results in an egg-reappearance period (ERP) of 15-24 weeks. Because of its long ERP, moxidectin is labelled to be used at 12 week intervals.
And I found this interesting
Quote:
Moxidectin may provide protection against infection by ingested cyathostomin larvae for 2-3 weeks after it is administered.
However, I found this to be a wee bit scary and frustrating
Again, the efficacy of Quest and egg reappearance is only for some specific types. Not all types of parasite eggs / larva / pupa. And, once the adult forms are killed by dewormer, that sends a signal to encysted or juvenile forms of parasites to “hatch” and take the place of the ones knocked out. So… you see why I don’t believe 12 weeks is a workable rotation.
Quest is a broad spectrum in that it gets a larger variety at once, but I don’t believe that broad spectrum lasts the 12 weeks for all parasite types.
cyathostomin and strongyles are the same parasite for anyone who is wondering… just different “forms”
gabz, not doubting you - do you have anything that talks about what you’re saying?
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
