Yay Ulrika! Glad you gave it a try and brought relief to your horse. Now you’ll have to be the ambassador to Sweden and spread the word there about NTW’s 
Has anyone revisited the connection of NTW and EPSA/DSLD?
I know it was mentioned early on but reading the latest research on EPSA (no longer considered just a suspensory issue and certainly not just a paso issue)
There seems to be some pretty wicked connections.
In each case there is damage to the connective tissue-normally found in ligaments and tendons, often the suspensory, often the nuchal ligament.
There is a connection to rapid onset bug allergies and reactions to fly sprays-sound familiar?
There are also cases where the eyes are impacted.
In other words, any place where there is connective tissue, the NTW can migrate in and destroy-and EPSA is a degeneration of connective tissue.
Seems very close in presentation to ignore the possibility?
Quite.
Could you provide links to the EPSA stuff you’ve read? I’d like to take a peek and pass it on to DJ. Thanks 
Hmmmm, the 2nd one had something to strike me: the study was done at UGA with donated horses. Could one safely “assume” that the donated horses were from the southeast?
Make me go “hmmmmmmmm”
I don’t know if I would assume that.
I just spoke with Dr Mero and she is located in California.
I would think at this point, horses have been observed across the country.
I also know Dr Kellon has a yahoo group on EPSA/DLSD as well…there may be more information.
OR, I wonder if somehow some horses have genetic weakness in the connective tissue and then they are prone to all these things-more susceptible to NTW or EPSA, for example.
I guess anything that targets the connective tissue would present with similar symptoms.
I wonder if any of the horses (in either 'disease) have been documented to suffer from low grade lammie as well.
Onchocerca
I was given a pony in July with large patches of long winter hair that you could not even pull out. Tender, over withers and back. Not the normal, small raised black rubbery looking lumps, just long winter hair, in patches, in July Oklahoma, 100 in the shade. I have found that having the vet dose the horse with INJECTABLE Ivermectin, cleared up the problem. You do need to be carefull, a quick die-off of a large numbers can cause symptoms that look like uveitis. We followed up 8 weeks with another injectable dose, then back to our regular worming schedule. The pea sized areas opended and drained and dried up quickly. No further problems. I have the vet give the injection because you are going off-label and it may void your insurance without the vet giving the shot. The problem with the injectable was not with the product, but the agent used and the fact that not all people are carefull in using injectable agents. Has the added benefit of killing off any other external bugs. Good luck, Jay
All I can say is WOW
I have just spent the last few days reading this ENTIRE thread. All I can say is WOW. It amazes me that after 30 years of horse ownership that this has never been brought up! How is that?? I am on my second horse which has been diagnosed with “Summer Itch” (as we call it down here). Protocol has been to treat with Dex and medicated shampoos, salves, etc. - I’m sure you all know the routine. I have owned my current gelding for 3 years, and can’t tell you how bad this horse has been plagued with the itchies. He is the worst in the summer (we really don’t get a “winter” in South Florida), but he ALWAYS has what I thought were “bug bites” on his shoulders and neck. He also has hard “nodules” on his lower legs that he will itch with his teeth - therefore causing constant sores. In fact, I’ve wondered if some of the hard crusties and nodules on his lower front legs were scar tissue. in addition, he is pretty much bald and scabby/scaley on his belly from between his front legs to his sheath. His face will sometimes lose almost all of it’s hair. He has white patches ALL over his neck, face, chest and front legs (he is dark bay). I thought when I bought him initially, that the patches were from either roaning out (not the case) or perhaps injuries, but it has become apparent that he itched so bad that he did this much damage. He is worse in the summer, but maintains the “bug bites” on his shoulders, neck and legs all year round. His belly also stays bald and crusty all year as well. He also has what i would call “dry skin” all year as well. There are none of these bites or nodules on his back, hind end, or hind legs - which NEVER dawned on me how weird that was. I mean, if he has an allergy to bug bites, why is it not ALL over him?? Makes you wonder!! And makes my wonder why I never even thought about that until now.
When I first started reading this thread, I was almost in tears - could this be it?? I truly HOPE so!! Having said that, I have already ordered the EM but am very scared about DD him. He is the most sensitive horse I have ever owned. And when I say “sensitive” I mean to itching and pain - NOT his stomach.
My concern lies with the die-off of any parasites and how he will physically react to that. Perhaps I am being overly concerned, but I commonly refer to this horse as: My Poor Sensitive Boy.
More backgound info is that he had some mild laminitis in one front hoof. I have taken him barefoot over the last year - his heels were 15 years contracted, and have not opened up (part of which is my fault for not providing better footing - all sugar sand here), and I have of course been battling thrush - whole other story. He has 24 hour turn out with access to shelter as he chooses. I cannot say that i’ve been the best with frequest deworming, as I was actually going to go the holistic route - not so much anymore!
Anyway, should I dose with reg Ivermectin 1st and then do the DD of EM? He had a dose (prob underdosed) 90 days ago with Ivermectin. What formula should I be using to calculate his weight?
ANY feedback would be much appreciated. I am going to take pics of his belly and see if I can get pics of his “bites” and the crud on his legs - may be hard to do as he has his winter coat.
Thank you all so much and I can’t tell you HAPPY I am that I was referred to this thread!!! 
Has this thread lost it’s luster?
Okay… I can hear the crickets…LOL! I know this thread has been going on for a long time… but I was wondering if those of you experienced with this issue could take a quick read of my situation and offer your very valued advice?
Many thanks for your time!
Sorry…have been off COTH a few days.
Since you have obvious signs/symptoms of NTW’s, just do it: DD Equimax Day 1 and DD Equimax Day 14.
Since you’ve been a good egg and read this whole thread, you know to watch for increased itching, etc. Just offer supportive external care.
Feel free to DD again on Day 28.
I have been following this closely and have DD all of my horses after success by posters.
Any number of dermal problems were cleared up with DD and repeat in 14 days. But the most significant results were for two separate problems:contracted tendons in a foal and clearing up an eye problem in a pony.
I’d never had any problems to speak of until I moved to a farm that had been used to layup TB in the SE. In both cases, the vets were only mildly impressed with the results. Is it that difficult to see how much trouble these worms can be?
The foal’s problem cleared in less that 2 weeks after treatment and the pony’s eye is nearly clear- after being obviously clouded over .
I am not sure if I should routinely DD once a year or not as prophilaxis -what do you say?
Peg
[QUOTE=LMH;4678334]
Has anyone revisited the connection of NTW and EPSA/DSLD?
I know it was mentioned early on but reading the latest research on EPSA (no longer considered just a suspensory issue and certainly not just a paso issue)
There seems to be some pretty wicked connections.
In each case there is damage to the connective tissue-normally found in ligaments and tendons, often the suspensory, often the nuchal ligament.
There is a connection to rapid onset bug allergies and reactions to fly sprays-sound familiar?
There are also cases where the eyes are impacted.
In other words, any place where there is connective tissue, the NTW can migrate in and destroy-and EPSA is a degeneration of connective tissue.
Seems very close in presentation to ignore the possibility?[/QUOTE]
Wouldn’t they find evidence of the NTW when the vets do the postmortem examination?
postmortem results for ntw
the only way to diagnose these is to get a slab of the meat it then has to be pulverized spun down etc. and if you miss the piece of tissue with the worms in it you get a negative diagnosis. so that said when i thorughly looked into this i was told by my vet friends to forget it.
I was a speaker a few years ago for the pre-med students for vet school. the talk was at georgia state university. I told them i was planting a seed. refering to giving them information about ntw’s. so in a few more years some of these guys maybe graduating and you may see some changes in our vets here in the US. who knows
There has already been change in that department thank God.
Glad to see someone beat me to the punch and bumped this thread back to Page 1 of Horse Care because…
TIS THE SEASON for the emergence of the lil buggers so stock up on your Equimax now.
(I have found www.horsehealthusa.com to have better pricing now than old Horse.com/CountrySupply)
in what way are you speaking. fill me in
It’s A New Summer…
OK. I was a little late to the party last year, but I REALLY DID read ALL of this thread (took days and days). I DD with EM after reading the first page and then freaked when I read about people relating problems to the DD of EM.
For the first time in 13 years, my gelding grew hair on his face, neck and chest during the summer. This was towards the end of summer, but nonetheless.
Having now been convinced, when, what and how do I proceed. I want to start as early as possible to try and ward off any problems and see if he can really have hair in the summer for once.
I also was scared to DD as he can be sensitive, but he did not seem to have any problems.
I think I could actually show him during the summer if he has hair and doesn’t look like a hairless creature.
I am terrified of this thread, but I have to ask, anyway…
I have read large portions of this thread at times (and it’s been a little while, so I am sure I forgot whatever I read), but it has reached mind boggling proportions, so I’ll just ask a few questions and hope they’ll get answered. Vet is out for spring vaccines on Saturday and I’ll have him look, but he is not the most open minded or investigative doctor.
1.) The friend’s horse in question has multiple bumps along underline and frequently slightly weepy eyes.
2.) When dewormed with ivermectin in mid-February, he had an odd “spot” open up on inner foreleg, looked like an “exit hole for a worm” like you see on the Animal Planet’s ’ “I was Eaten Alive” and had a grub living in me.’ Weird, and a little creepy.
3.) It’s been warm here (mid-80 today), and the last 2 days, he is itchy. Itchy enough that he stopped eating his grain to itch a while (teeth on body only, not rubbing on walls or fences), and looked like he was doing the macarena in the crossties trying to reach pesky scratches.
So, the questions:
Does this sound like onchocerca to you all that are used to dealing with it?
Are there areas of the country you DON"T find it?
AND… why do people use the Equimax DD, when it is fairly pricey, and ivermectin is what they say kills the parasite? Is there an advantage to the double praziquantal? (I’m sure that is somewhere in the thread, but I don’t have the heart to look for it.)
Thanks!
Yes, it does sound like it.
While NTWs are much more prevalent in the south / southeast (warmer, more humid), I’ve gotten reports (PMs, e-mails, etc.) from more northerly states. Soooo, NTWs are spreading.
While Ivermectin says it gets Onchocerca, the consensus among those who’ve tried both double dosing ivermectin and then double dosing Equimax, shows the DD Equimax to be much more effective. We’re not sure why, but the early studies posted in the beginning of this thread from Australia bear that out.
I know, I know, old creepy crawly thread, but I HAVE to announce that Sadie HAS MANE and is not NEARLY so itchy and has STOPPED RUBBING HER TAIL and all in all looks much much better since I religiously did the NTW protocol not only last fall but again this spring at the first sign of rubbing. This mare has destroyed corral panels with her incessant tail and mane rubbing. She has STOPPED.
Adjuncts used that may have enhanced the miraculous turnaround include equiderma lotion to the base of her tail and in her mane. And baby wipes daily to her crudder udder. However, none of those wouldve given her summer dapples for the first time. I am a believer.
Will repost as the season progresses. ChocoMare, any thoughts on sores (where she’s itched, I catch her doing this on the edge of her trough) on her mouth and around her muzzle? These are currently the only breaks in her skin. I’ll settle for that, being used to her being a lumpy crusty oozing mess all over her brisket and neck for the duration of a GA summer.
