[QUOTE=ridgeback;3422147]
Oops I actually meant I am sorry you feel that way…[/QUOTE]
I got that!!!:lol:
Good attention/bad attention. To many it makes no difference as long as they’re noticed.
And Munich was noticed.
To consider Berlin as anything other than a footnote (though a great footnote) is a misreading of history. The war was there - the shots hadn’t been fired yet.
Munich… was… horrific. And the way some of y’all are cheering is the way a lot of folks were cheering back then - but they weren’t cheering for the victims. People should not be used as pawns for political gain.
Sorry - it’s just the way I see it. In the end - it’s the person that suffers most. Everyone else moves on, including nations.
[QUOTE=snoopy;3422154]
Is that a joke? Americans abroad are welcomed very warmly in every country I have visited. Infact I have never seen any bad behaviour in that regard.[/QUOTE]
It’s true and I think New Yorkers are the once that gave us the bad name…at least in the beginning:)
Im sure that all of the American people who are standing against China today have been demonstrating and protesting for many many years, right…?
Because all of those atrocities didn’t start right before the Olympics…
The decision was made to have these games in China, the Olympics are not a time for politics and judgements.
I wonder if the whole world should give their opinions on how to stop the increasing number of American kids being morbidely obese…?
I have never yet run into an American during my visits to Cuba. Although, in that case, the problem is that the US doesn’t let them go. For all I know, the Cubans might not be unhappy to see them. As long as they are armed with $ instead of weapons I suppose :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=MILOUTE55;3422180]
Im sure that all of the American people who are standing against China today have been demonstrating and protesting for many many years, right…?
Because all of those atrocities didn’t start right before the Olympics…
The decision was made to have these games in China, the Olympics are not a time for politics and judgements.
I wonder if the whole world should give their opinions on how to stop the increasing number of American kids being morbidely obese…?[/QUOTE]
I wish they would maybe it would shine some light on our food supply and how animals are treated before they make it to our table…
I am sure the Lomong being Sudanese had something to do with him carrying the flag. However I think that the people that picked him also feel that he truly represents the ideals that many Americans love about our country. Lopez Lomong came from nothing and had the good fortune to come to our country and work really hard to accomplish his dreams. Wrong or right that is what we are thought in our schools and in our homes. If you work hard you can be anything you want to be in America. I don’t see how havening somebody that truly embodies that Idea carrying our flag can be offensive to anyone. The Chinese know what American ideals are if they were so offended by them why do they do so much business with us. Why do they allow Americans to live in their country and teach English at their schools. We need china just like china needs us. If china is embarrassed it will be like the obnoxious uncle that gets called out for being an a** at thanksgiving. He gets mad then he gets over it.
[QUOTE=snoopy;3422066]
For the record:
I was against these Olympics being awarded to China because of my own personal belief and feelings. BUT I think it does a disservice to ALL of the athletes when ANYONE uses this platform to push their political aganda, personal beliefs etc. It is not in the spirit of the games and is disrespectful to the competing athletes. This is why am not unhappy or bent out of shape by the Chinese Government denying a visa to the skater.[/QUOTE]
What about this incident then? Different as they were protesting injustice in their home country, but protesting none the less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute
In my book it was rather a rather beautiful, poetic expression of justified outrage.
[QUOTE=ef80;3422286]
In my book it was rather a rather beautiful, poetic expression of justified outrage.[/QUOTE]
And in my book, the wrong place to be doing it…:no:
[QUOTE=snoopy;3422315]
And in my book, the wrong place to be doing it…:no:[/QUOTE]
And that is your opinion;)
[QUOTE=ridgeback;3422325]
And that is your opinion;)[/QUOTE]
and it is my opinion that it was disrepectful to the host nation, to the olympics, and their fellow athletes.
"IOC president Avery Brundage deemed a domestic political statement unfit for the apolitical, international forum the Olympic Games was supposed to be. In an immediate response to their actions, he ordered Smith and Carlos suspended from the U.S. team and banned from the Olympic Village. When the US Olympic Committee refused, Avery threatened to ban the entire US track team. This threat led to the two athletes being expelled from the Games.
A spokesperson for the organization said it was “a deliberate and violent breach of the fundamental principles of the Olympic spirit.”
[QUOTE=snoopy;3422341]
and it is my opinion that it was disrepectful to the host nation, to the olympics, and their fellow athletes.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is:) But in my world respect is earned not automatically given… By the way I don’t protest anything I’m for peace and human rights I’m against nothing…
[QUOTE=snoopy;3422315]
And in my book, the wrong place to be doing it…:no:[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding me. At that time in America the black athlete was to be seen and not heard like an obedient child. If those men did not speak up then at what time would they be able to shame Americans in recognizing that they we people with rights and voices not just things to be observed for our pleasure or pawns to be sent of to war. In the immortal words of Mohammad Ali no Vietnamese ever called me Ni**er. For a long time in America the only black voice that white America heard was the black athlete. And god bless all of them that had the courage to make white America take a critical look at who we are as a nation.
The US picking an irritating flag-carrier is beautifully rude, and I applaud it.
Anyone thinking that the Olympics is or ever was supposed to be an apolitical event celebrating individual human achievemet is living in a fantasy. It’s a platform for the nations that host and the nations that attend.
[QUOTE=MILOUTE55;3422180]
I wonder if the whole world should give their opinions on how to stop the increasing number of American kids being morbidely obese…?[/QUOTE]
And when the topic is America and the world, the fat flies sooner rather than later. Besides, the whole world does give their opinion on fat America, all the time.
[QUOTE=ginger708;3422350]
Are you kidding me. At that time in America the black athlete was to be seen and not heard like an obedient child. If those men did not speak up then at what time would they be able to shame Americans in recognizing that they we people with rights and voices not just things to be observed for our pleasure or pawns to be sent of to war. In the immortal words of Mohammad Ali no Vietnamese ever called me Ni**er. For a long time in America the only black voice that white America heard was the black athlete. And god bless all of them that had the courage to make white America take a critical look at who we are as a nation.[/QUOTE]
WOW I LOVE THIS AND YOU ARE SO DEAD ON!!! NAMASTE MY FRIEND
[QUOTE=ginger708;3422350]
Are you kidding me. At that time in America the black athlete was to be seen and not heard like an obedient child. If those men did not speak up then at what time would they be able to shame Americans in recognizing that they we people with rights and voices not just things to be observed for our pleasure or pawns to be sent of to war. In the immortal words of Mohammad Ali no Vietnamese ever called me Ni**er. For a long time in America the only black voice that white America heard was the black athlete. And god bless all of them that had the courage to make white America take a critical look at who we are as a nation.[/QUOTE]
Oh I GET it…but I do not agree with it. I do not believe america was shamed but rather the cause. I see little proof that their actions actually made any difference to the injustices they were protesting.
[QUOTE=snoopy;3422375]
Oh I GET it…but I do not agree with it. I do not believe america was shamed but rather the cause. I see little proof that their actions actually made any difference to the injustices they were protesting.[/QUOTE]
Well now I got to disagree with you on that one…
[QUOTE=ridgeback;3422393]
Well now I got to disagree with you on that one…[/QUOTE]
So do tell me what was accomplished then? Injustice is STILL going on…still. And whilst the episode was said to move the cause of civil rights forward, that is all good on paper, but the reality is quite different.
[QUOTE=snoopy;3422399]
So do tell me what was accomplished then? Injustice is STILL going on…still.[/QUOTE]
BARACK OBAMA!!! and yes utopia does not yet exist on planet earth but we can continue to move forward…
I should preface this with the note that I very much appreciate non-violent, highly public protest actions and civil disobedience - especially if those actions have artistic/poetic merit behind them.
I honestly think that the 68 Protest is very much in line with the Olympic Spirit - the world coming together, competing on a global stage where everyone is equal. To stand up and say, ‘I am equal here with the rest of the world, but at home, I am not’ is outstandingly brave.
Our flag-bearer is a very appropriate selection as his story shares a lot of elements in “the American dream” - Individual leads a hard-knock life in their nation of origin, comes to the US for a better life, becomes a citizen and has a beautiful life.
If the US, as a nation, really wanted to diss China, be rude or go against the Olympic Spirit - the thing to do would have been for GWB and other political officials to SKIP the Opening Ceremonies but still send teams to compete.
I fully expect we’ll see at least one attempted commentary on either the upcoming elections or the war in Iraq on the podium.
Protesting at the Olympics is, in my book, a moral good because the world is watching - these competitors are, for the most part ‘every day citizens’ and to hear their voice speak up against injustice is a good thing. The people of a nation is not always it’s government.
EDIT: Yes, injustice still goes on - but as far as ‘what’s changed’, there is a black man who stands a good chance of becoming the next American president. The presidential race isn’t just about the issues, it also is very much about whether or not the majority of America is ready to accept a President that isn’t a white male.
Social inequality today is quickly becoming more about socioeconomic differences than ethnic differences. One very important change is that more minorities are attending college than in previous decades. Interestingly when it comes to the gender divide, more minority women graduate from college than minority men.
