http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/09/olympicgames2008.humanrights
A very enlightening story…thanks for bringing it to my attention. I shall have to ponder this, wont I?!
[QUOTE=ginger708;3422219]
I am sure the Lomong being Sudanese had something to do with him carrying the flag. However I think that the people that picked him also feel that he truly represents the ideals that many Americans love about our country. Lopez Lomong came from nothing and had the good fortune to come to our country and work really hard to accomplish his dreams. Wrong or right that is what we are thought in our schools and in our homes. If you work hard you can be anything you want to be in America. I don’t see how havening somebody that truly embodies that Idea carrying our flag can be offensive to anyone. The Chinese know what American ideals are if they were so offended by them why do they do so much business with us. Why do they allow Americans to live in their country and teach English at their schools. We need china just like china needs us. If china is embarrassed it will be like the obnoxious uncle that gets called out for being an a** at thanksgiving. He gets mad then he gets over it.[/QUOTE]
This was my interpretation as well. “We are proud of Lamoung’s accomplishments, and are proud for him to represent our country.” It bums me out that others jump to play the “offensive card” so quickly, rather than appreciating what this individual has overcome to be where he is today. To me, that (being offended-or calling attention in that regard) seems to perpetuate the negative vibe that so many continue to try to shake…
However, there are also a large number of Americans, I believe (hopefully) the majority, who will make their decision for candidate based on the candidates and the issues, whichever way that decision leads them. It’s quite possible to be against Obama and to be equally against him were he white and McCain black, just as it’s possible to have been against Hillary purely on issues without having her gender or social expectations or “a woman’s place” play any role at all in that decision. Not saying that you are doing this yourself, but I’ve run into a few people who label all Obama nonsupporters based on the race card.
I can’t believe this hasn’t been closed yet. Not that I think it should be; nice discussion on both sides. But it isn’t horse related. 
ETA: I LOVE the selection of the flag bearer and think it’s a great one.
Wow - if you’re so offended maybe you should go back and actually read the posts.
People weren’t complaining about this wonderful man. Get it? READ. Everyone is impressed with his life story - he very much deserves to carry our flag.
Understand now? Get it? Go back and read once more. All of you - anyone who thinks that people were criticizing this individual.
Because they weren’t. You’re purposefully misconstruing what they wrote. Some people think international sport should not be used to further divide us, and were referring to the protests and other public displays that they consider inappropriate for this venue. Some also thought that such displays did not help improve relations with the host nation. We’re all supposed to be playing nice in the sandbox. It’s only for a few days every few years - it ain’t that hard.
It’s a separate issue from this man’s accomplishment. And ridgeback - if you want to expound on your personal politics - please create a blog so I don’t have to wade through your posts. If I want to learn something about Darfur, I won’t be visiting the COTH BB. Really.
dressagetraks - sorry - was replying to ridgeback and your post go there first. But can we please leave the presidential race out of it? It’s quite possible to dislike Obama and not be a racist for God’s sake.
My thoughts on the flag bearer–I think it’s great. He represents the American dream, the “bootstraps” story, and the ideal (yes, it’s an ideal, not a reality) of Emma Lazarus’ poem (at the base of the Statue of Liberty):
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
THAT, in my opinion, is why Lomong was chosen. It was probably not meant as an affront to China per se, and if they are embarrassed by it, it is THEIR problem, not ours. We are not breaking rules or even being blatantly disrespectful by choosing an American who embodies the American dream to carry the American flag.
As for the skater–I do not believe he was going to stir up trouble (though perhaps lend some visibility to his cause). However, I think China is well within its rights to deny him entry; face it, we would deny entry to some individuals.
I believe it is fair to aks athletes and spectators alike to abide by China’s laws. Indeed, it is the only way it can work. When I travel, I expect that I have to follow the laws of the host country or face the consequences. When foreigners come to the US, we expect them to follow our laws. That’s the way it works.
I don’t believe the Olympics should be about politics, and for that reason I would not have awarded the Games to China. There are two options: ignore China’s human rights violations for two weeks, or politicize the Games. Since neither is palatable, giving them the Games was perhaps unwise. We (the world) aren’t ready for it. However, since it happened, I believe that those in China (athletes, spectators, politicians, etc) should not politicize the Games. If people want to protest, let it be from their home countries. Le us pressure our government into pressuring China. Let us support groups that assist the oppressed in China. However, let’s do it because it’s right, not because the Olympics happen to be on. We don’t need to cease protesting (domestically) for the next two weeks, but let’s separate out the issues of politics and sports.
Oh, and Mozart: Cubans were very happy to see us (my group) when we went there (legally, might I add). They were extremely welcoming, generous, and kind. It should be mentioned that our team was hardly boorish and that even though we were already a multi-cultural group, we still went through cultural sensitivity training.
Quickie stab at making it horse-related 
Michael Matz was the flag bearer for the closing ceremonies in 1996! The Olympic teams have historically done a great job at picking someone who really deserves it, this year is no exception.
J.Swan and Thomas Pirate:
:yes:
[QUOTE=ef80;3422561]
Quickie stab at making it horse-related
Michael Matz was the flag bearer for the closing ceremonies in 1996! The Olympic teams have historically done a great job at picking someone who really deserves it, this year is no exception. :)[/QUOTE]
On this we argee…totaly!!!:yes::yes::yes:
Snoopy - do you ever get the feeling you’re a modern day Diogenes?
Know what I mean?
[QUOTE=J Swan;3422551]
It’s a separate issue from this man’s accomplishment. And ridgeback - if you want to expound on your personal politics - please create a blog so I don’t have to wade through your posts. If I want to learn something about Darfur, I won’t be visiting the COTH BB. Really.
dressagetraks - sorry - was replying to ridgeback and your post go there first. But can we please leave the presidential race out of it? It’s quite possible to dislike Obama and not be a racist for God’s sake.[/QUOTE]
I’ll use your word WOW:lol::lol: what has this entire thread been about…you chose to post in this thread…:lol::lol::lol: Yee ha Swan snoopy asked what has changed since 68 I pointed out who was running for President…No where did I give my opinion on the race but I will now GO BARACK OBAMA!!!
I read the thread because it was SUPPOSED to be about the man carrying our nations flag. If you’ll let the thread be just about this man, instead of your personal politics, it would be nice. Especially since many of us have expressed our desire to just enjoy the Games for what they are.
[QUOTE=J Swan;3422576]
Snoopy - do you ever get the feeling you’re a modern day Diogenes?
Know what I mean?[/QUOTE]
That could go either way depending on your point of view of the man himself. Care to expand with in the context of this discussion and my posts?
Sympathizers considered him a devotee of reason and an exemplar of honesty. Detractors have said he was an obnoxious beggar and an offensive grouch.
Sadly I am often described by my detractors.
[QUOTE=J Swan;3422588]
I read the thread because it was SUPPOSED to be about the man carrying our nations flag. If you’ll let the thread be just about this man, instead of your personal politics, it would be nice. Especially since many of us have expressed our desire to just enjoy the Games for what they are.[/QUOTE]
Swan you will notice I started this thread more than 24 hours ago and only a few postings… Then Equibrit posted this “Being American does not confer the right to be a crass guest in a foreign country.” I then asked this, “Exactly how is it crass? He has every right to carry our flag…” then Equibrit said ,"…in a move that could embarrass Sudan and its ally China…Way to solve a problem." Please get your facts straight before accusing people of things.thank you
No - I’m the offensive grouch. I meant the old chestnut about him wandering around Athens with his lantern, looking for an honest man!:lol:
ridgeback - never mind - I want to talk about sports - not politics. Have a ball with the animal rights and Sudan and visa stuff. The rotten tomatoes being thrown at China is directed at every country every time the Games come around. I can my tomatoes and eat them in the winter. It’s a more productive use. 
[QUOTE=J Swan;3422657]
No - I’m the offensive grouch. I meant the old chestnut about him wandering around Athens with his lantern, looking for an honest man!:lol:
ridgeback - never mind - I want to talk about sports - not politics. Have a ball with the animal rights and Sudan and visa stuff. The rotten tomatoes being thrown at China is directed at every country every time the Games come around. I can my tomatoes and eat them in the winter. It’s a more productive use. [/QUOTE]
I do find it interesting how I’m targeted with the politics when MANY have contributed to this thread on a political note. We must have had issues before in another thread hmmm:winkgrin: Although I do find it interesting that you would have read this thread and decided to participate when you just want to talk about sport and clearly, there was some politics in it from the very beginning. Oh and if you don’t want politics in sport switch to jumpers because that is the only one that doesn’t have politics(at least in judging)…leave the sticks up and go the fastest and you win…
" He used to stroll about in full daylight with a lamp; when asked what he was doing, he would answer, “I am just looking for an honest man.” Diogenes looked for an honest man and reputedly found nothing but rascals and scoundrels.
This attitude was grounded in a great disdain for what he perceived as the folly, pretense, vanity, social climbing, self-deception, and artificiality of much human conduct.
THAT is so me!!!
:lol:
I think anyone who goes to China to compete in the Olympics is making a huge statement.
[QUOTE=slc2;3422936]
I think anyone who goes to China to compete in the Olympics is making a huge statement.[/QUOTE]
I think anyone who goes to China to compete in the Olympics is showing up to take part in something they have worked their whole lives for and have earned. The athletes don’t get to choose the venue. I hate it when people politicize the Olympics. It is completely antithetical to the point of the Games and opportunistic. It is also futile (see, e.g., the boycott disgrace circa 1980).
[QUOTE=ginger708;3422219]
The Chinese know what American ideals are if they were so offended by them why do they do so much business with us.[/QUOTE]
moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney
so the Chinese can do business with Westerners, and make moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney.
And English teachers who mention or embody American ideals get kicked out of the Chinese schools.
Yeah, like a junkie needs a drug pusher.
Except that the obnoxious uncle lacks a huge army and nuclear capabilities.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3421984]
I have not claimed that anybody broke any laws. What I am saying is that the attempt to embarass China when you are their guest is thoughtless, rude and short sighted, not to mention embarassing.[/QUOTE]
However, I don’t think Mr. Cheek was, by his presence , intending to embarrass China. Now, he may have been encouraging others to lend support to his stance on Darfur, and that may have em-bare-assed China. but that is their problem, which they have now amplified. :lol: :lol:
Sorry Equibrit-On this sort of thing, you are into a sticky wicket.
