Son of Lost Soldier as a breeding sire?

[hjllc]

Hi all,

I recently acquired a stallion out of Lost Soldier (with dam out of Cure the Blues) who I am considering breeding, but I’m not sure what type of interest there may be in him, as I know there are tons of great sires out there right now. He was a great turf sprinter, was nominated to the Breeder’s Cup, earned $34,000 in 12 races and only stopped racing because his owners ran out of money and he was claimed out. He has an excellent personality and confirmation. Any advice on what types of market research I should be doing, or what publications I should advertise in? I’ve reviewed Bloodhorse.com and Thoroughbred Times and a few other sources. Any opinions as to Lost Soldier’s progeny as breeding stock? Thanks in advance for any advice anyone could give me as a newcomer to this industry.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

He was a great turf sprinter,

earned $34,000

I’m trying to reconcile the above statements.

If this is your horse, then he has zero/zilch/no future as a race horse sire.

[kcmel]

@hjllc;6061488

Hi all,
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone could give me as a newcomer to this industry.

Geld him. Please.

[Laurierace]

Even if he were a great turf sprinter which is definitely is not, he would have zero value. You would be breeding for the slaughter market. Please geld him and forget you ever even thought about asking this question.

[Where_sMyWhite]

FWIW, my TB mare never set foot on a race track (no lip tatoo) and yet she was also Breeder’s Cup nominated.

Nominating babies to the BC is very inexpensive compared to when they are older and perhaps more worthy of actually racing in a BC race.

What everyone else said… geld.

[rustbreeches]

Agree with everybody else. Geld him. Please. Good horses make $34,000 in one start, not 12. Great horses make a hell of alot more.

[Laurierace]

Not to mention it is by Lost Soldier not out of, needless to say that would be lethal. And unless he is Catholic you are probably referring to is conformation. Not trying to be a snark just illustrating how over your head you are.

[hjllc]

Thanks everyone for the opinions given that were helpful. To those more snarky members who confuse a quickly written post for a complete lack of knowledge on anything horse-related, thank you. I’ll be sure not to visit this forum again. And I’m sure your racing and/or breeding program produces a Kentucky Derby contender each year, based on your exceptional level of expertise as demonstrated by your posts.

[Timex]

there’s just nothing there that screams ‘racehorse sire’ to me. and, realistically? he just wasn’t that good a racehorse. 34k in 12 starts is noting compared to the other stallions out there that are standing at stud. in comparison? my stud made 236k, out of 34 starts (9-5-7, here’s his info: http://equibase.com/premium/eqbHorseInfo.cfm?refno=6083436&registry=T ). I’ve casually stood him at stud since i got him in '10 for a very realistic stud fee, and have gotten interest from show people only. and very few, at that. the market sucks, and tb studs are pretty easy to come across, even ones that made loads of $$. so, i’m sorry that you don’t like what people are trying to tell you, but standing your horse at stud is a losing proposition. gelding him is a much better bet.

[DeeThbd]

The above posters are right…in any discipline, but especially in the TB racing industry, a horse needs to check a LOT of boxes in order to merit consideration for breeding. Things that mare owners are going to look for are talent - for example, winning in graded stakes company; and bloodlines - where both sides of the pedigree are heavy in black type (which means other horses in the pedigree have placed first, second or third in stakes races, especially graded stakes. They also look for longevity - has the horse remained sound while being campaigned? Do other horses sharing the same bloodlines tend to stay sound?
I’m not pretending to be any kind of expert on what makes a good stallion - I am just skimming over the surface here. Unfortunately, even a horse who has made half a million dollars may not be considered a candidate for breeding.
I hope that you can offer him a good home and a good future as a show or saddle horse. He is definitely not too old to geld, and can adapt very well to a non-racing lifestyle too!
Dee

[Linny]

If the link above is correct, your horse is not a strong sire candidate as a race stallion. There are exceptionally well bred major stakes winners out there at low fees, and they are proven sires of winners. Even in a strong market, a stallion who is not a stakes winner better have a VERY good reason to enter the stud. (He should be a full to a top runner or sire, from a female line that produces sires, have a darned good excuse for never having won a stake…)
Winning $34k, for a race horse is, quite honestly, not a badge of honor. It indicates that he raced only in the lowest tiers of racing. By way of analogy; if you had a colt who once won an open class at a mixed english/western/saddleseat show by managing to trot over all the crossrails without bucking you off or frightening the bystanders that doesn’t mean he should be standing at stud. Most likely he should be gelded, unless he moves from that level up to win (say) A/O classes at Wellington or PA National or Derbies or… something where high level animals compete.
As far as pedigree, Lost Soldier was well bred but only an average racehorse who has sired a few decent runners while standing in a regional market, Florida. He’s not a “big name” horse and has not sired any big name horses and as such there is no call in the breeding world for one of his sons to appear on offer.
You didn’t mention how you got him but any stallion worth standing at stud for racing purposes, that has any chace of success is going to very expensive. There is also the fact that even for well bred and well known stallions the success rate is very low and tallion owners and managers work hard and invest big money to be sure that they are supported by the best mares available.

Allow me to close by paraphrasing one of America’s top breeders of the 20th century, Alfred G Vanderbilt. (I cannot recall the exact words here, but he said, in effect.) “Had I gelded every colt I ever bred, I’d have only made one mistake, Native Dancer.” I would venture a guess that this stallion isn’t a latent Native Dancer. (ND raced 22 times with 21 wins, was one of the most influential sires of all time and started out by being very well bred.)

[Calamber]

I do not know as that race record should be the primary consideration for breeding success as there have been many in history who have either had no races (Hambletonian is one, not TB but a good example). I am sure there are many, many more in the TB world. That being said, the economy would be the greatest impediment for me to breed anything these days, even if I owned Giant’s Causeway, which is as likely as me becoming a great tb breeder at this point.:eek:

There is an interesting new website that has a good/interesting way of looking at the breeding of any horses, since proportionally speaking, the thoroughbred industry is not really producing bred to race purposefully only, thank God. Maybe they think they are, but if so, the racing industry would be considered a flat out failure if you consider the number of foals on the ground from the top sire and dam lines and the number of winners who even pay enough to warrant keeping them for their racing career.

To make use of your time to educate yourself and get in on the ground of some new interesting information, “The Retired Racehorse Project”, begun by Steuart Pittman has started a database (in it’s infancy but a great idea), to track lines of horses according to a different standard than merely producing swift horses. I wish it much success, called, for now, “Bloodline Brag”.

It is a great way to educate yourself and the many facets of different lines of thoroughbreds, and it will keep you away from breeding that stallion, at least for now, until you have more education and a better idea of what you are trying to produce and why.

http://www.retiredracehorsetraining.org/index.php?option=com_sobipro&sid=63&Itemid=163

[erfarrell]

Just to clarify, if that Lost Island horse is the horse we are talking about here… He is not a turf sprinter. Sprinter, sure, but the horse never once ran on grass.

[Flying_Fox]

One word Carryback

[Laurierace]

@Flying Fox;6062828

One word Carryback

???

[Flying_Fox]

It is interesting that while he invested a fortune in Swaps and Ribot, Galbreath himself concurs in most breeders’ conviction the dam’s influence on the foal is far more important than that of the sire. The efficacy of class-in-the-dam is susceptible to proof in the racing records.

[Flying_Fox]

Carryback’s sire stud fee was $400.00 and his dam was brought for $300.00

[Laurierace]

Yeah, that is relevant.

[Flying_Fox]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carry_Back

[Laurierace]

Who cares? You pick a 50 plus year old fluke and use that as a reason to breed a horse that has absolutely no reason to have been born with testicles let alone use them? I can give you well over 250,000 examples of cheap horses bred to cheap horses that sucked to counter your one fluke. Get the meat man on speed dial…