Sophie Gochman op-ed and follow ups.

[mvp]

@danosaur

thank you that’s incredibly kind of you to say.

also re: “feigned outrage” how is it so hard to believe that people are actually angry. Missy wasn’t speaking for only herself in that article. She positioned herself as an expert in the industry (she absolutely is, mind you) and spoke from that place, presuming to represent the industry. Missy can think whatever she wants, but she lives an exceptionally insular life and apparently has zero idea of that. THAT is what makes me mad. Missy tried to speak for the horse community, and she sure as hell does not speak for me.

Yanno, I will bet that Clark now regrets writing that article. Had I been in her shoes, I think I would have politely declined the invitation to write. I don’t think there’s a response any white person in an insular luxury industry can offer right now that won’t be raked over the coals. And to find oneself opposing a kid who is writing from the position of the moral high ground? The rebuttal is a fool’s errand.

One bit of defense for Clark: Recent history, particularly the speed with which same-sex marriages were adopted in the US, seems to have produced a distorting historical lens through which people view LGBTQ discrimination and the first decades of the AIDS crisis. Perhaps for this reason, people who aren’t interested or well-versed in history (or merely young and also not interested in history) can pooh-pooh the support Clark says her industry to it’s LGBTQ members when most of society was happy to let gay people die of some awful disease they seemed to deserve. Clark offers this bit of history to her present-day reader who is interested in racial discrimination as a sign (I infer) of an enlightened, caring and active group.

If you are not satisfied by this, why not? Is it that “that was sexual discrimination… this is racial discrimination… you are diluting our topic”? (As much has been said to me when I pointed out that socioeconomic class and racism are coupled quite close together in the US and that economic reparations need to be made). Is it that you aren’t gay and therefore aren’t obligated to care about that particular “other”? Is it that history merely is not of interest to you, so you aren’t obligated to consider Clark’s point?

If Clark’s point is to be discredited, it has to be done on its own terms. The “Well, maybe you guys did some good, I don’t really know… but so what?” isn’t the strongest rebuttal. If this is young Gochman’s point, I think she’s going to have to give back some of the moral high ground because she is wrong to have ignored historical fact.

[foursocks]

From my understanding both Sophie and MIssy submitted those pieces; they were not asked to write.

The positive take away from this is would be that Missy takes the time to educate herself, instead of just reacting defensively and gathering those who agree with her around herself like a protective shield. <-- this is the more probable outcome, but one can hope!

[RainWeasley]

@mooonie

I had an interesting experience when in junior high.
We had the “opportunity” to change places for a day with our sister school in a poor? neighborhood. I didn’t want to do this, but was nominated and accepted. The experience was life changing, very kind kids and I have nothing but positive things to say. I remember it to this day (from the seventies). To this day, if I hear something racist, I ask if they would want to change places for a day and if they would have the same status as now if they were born in a non-affluent area. I wonder if college students would be ok with trading places instead of studying abroad.

I went through something kind of similar. My first two years of high school were at the “rich kid” school here, predominantly white, the school that the kids from the rich neighborhoods went to (at that time). I moved away for a year, then when I moved back I decided to go to the magnet school my older brothers went to, so I could do the art magnet program. That was a predominantly black school, a lot of the kids from the lower income areas went there. They had a pretty good football program too, one of my brothers was on the team with Amobi Okoye, who went on to the NFL.

At any rate, it was my first time at a mostly-black school myself, and I was expecting it to be scary. Like, there were lots of fights at my previous school, I thought it would be worse there. It wasn’t, at all. In fact, the black kids were SO MUCH FRIENDLIER than the white kids there, and nicer than most of the kids from my previous school. I was the new awkward white girl, but I made friends on the very first day, and not with the white kids.

It was eye opening for me. I mean, I grew up with all of my brothers’ friends coming over. My mom was basically like the team mom for the football team, so we always had these huge black football players just popping over to our house randomly to just hang out, and they were all so nice to me, the baby sister. But I had still heard all the stories about this school from the (white) kids at my previous school, and it shaped, even unconsciously, my expectations. I’m really glad I decided to go there, even if it was only for a year (thats a whole other story).

I never really liked the “I don’t see color” thing, either. You notice when someone is blonde vs brunette vs redhead, of course you notice the skin is a different color too.

[fair_judy]

Honestly, Clark is the poster child for why an education is vital. The woman is functionally illiterate and lacking in any semblance of a worldview.

[mvp]

@foursocks

From my understanding both Sophie and MIssy submitted those pieces; they were not asked to write.

The positive take away from this is would be that Missy takes the time to educate herself, instead of just reacting defensively and gathering those who agree with her around herself like a protective shield. <-- this is the more probable outcome, but one can hope!

So Clark, unbidden by COTH, responded to Gochman? Jeez…

It’s interesting to watch folks reveal the degree to which they feel entitled. Here, I mean the sense that “We (white and relatively elite people)” have done our part. We wring our hands over what we can’t change. But we fail to imagine what we can change. And that intellectual laziness, the unaccustomed habit of putting oneself in the other guy’s shoes, is completely optional and an expression of unappreciated privilege.

Y’all know I’m a “show me the money” kind of gal. So, honest-to-God, BTNs, you guys could have shared way more of your profits with your brown grooms At Any Time. You could have been transparent about horse prices and commissions such that you did your part in helping the price of horses to stay perhaps kinda/sorta within reach for all but the millionaire- and billionaire classes.

I’m sure there are more ways the tippy top voices in the horse industry could put their money where their mouth is.

[danosaur]

@mvp

One bit of defense for Clark: Recent history, particularly the speed with which same-sex marriages were adopted in the US, seems to have produced a distorting historical lens through which people view LGBTQ discrimination and the first decades of the AIDS crisis. Perhaps for this reason, people who aren’t interested or well-versed in history (or merely young and also not interested in history) can pooh-pooh the support Clark says her industry to it’s LGBTQ members when most of society was happy to let gay people die of some awful disease they seemed to deserve. Clark offers this bit of history to her present-day reader who is interested in racial discrimination as a sign (I infer) of an enlightened, caring and active group.

If you are not satisfied by this, why not? Is it that “that was sexual discrimination… this is racial discrimination… you are diluting our topic”? (As much has been said to me when I pointed out that socioeconomic class and racism are coupled quite close together in the US and that economic reparations need to be made). Is it that you aren’t gay and therefore aren’t obligated to care about that particular “other”? Is it that history merely is not of interest to you, so you aren’t obligated to consider Clark’s point?

If Clark’s point is to be discredited, it has to be done on its own terms. The “Well, maybe you guys did some good, I don’t really know… but so what?” isn’t the strongest rebuttal. If this is young Gochman’s point, I think she’s going to have to give back some of the moral high ground because she is wrong to have ignored historical fact.

well first of all this is a lovely post. in all of this chaos I honestly haven’t seen much civil discourse, and no real calm and thoughtful representation (to me) of a view opposing, or questioning my own. So thank you, I appreciate the thought and care you took in writing it.

As far as the idea of “diluting the topic,” I am sure that I do not speak for everyone who is displeased with Missy’s piece when I say this, but no that’s not a factor for me at all. I think that human beings are generally capable of holding many issues dear to their heart, and caring about many things at once. I don’t think it’s possible to “dilute” the cause by bringing up another legitimate cause. I don’t actually have a problem at all with what Missy said regarding the horse industry’s inclusion and acceptance of gay riders. I in fact agree with Missy that the horse world was leagues ahead of the rest of the world in not only accepting the existence of gay people, but in not demonizing them during the AIDS (then GRID) panic.

My issue lies in her taking this concept, and using it to not only deny white privilege in the industry, but in general, as is implied by her repeatedly putting “white privilege” in quotes. Just because horse people are historically pretty gay friendly, doesn’t mean that they automatically could not be less than friendly toward other types of minorities. She also blames the lack of people of color on lack of money, and says it has nothing to do with race. However, socioeconomic status is inextricably linked to race. She basically says we aren’t racist, when we see black people we are nice to them, but we just don’t see them. and that’s because they can’t afford horses.

In my article posted earlier (pg 5 here somewhere I believe) I addressed why POC are less likely to afford access to horses than white people. I think that Missy is confusing systemic racism with overt racism, and I think because this is something she is ignorant about, she felt compelled to write an entire article claiming it didn’t exist. She’s just not correct in her assertions.

What made me angry reading it though was her line by line attempted takedown of Sophie. I think it’s one thing to feel optimistic about one’s industry and feel compelled to defend it, but it’s quite another thing for a grown woman, an exceptionally powerful woman inside the industry, to basically bully a minor in a national magazine about an issue that Missy clearly doesn’t spend much time thinking about. I personally would not feel any anger over this at all had she merely stated her opinion and her perspective. But it’s kind of hard to get behind her rose colored view of the horse world when she is not only (in my opinion) wrong, but also kind of mean.

@mvp Edit: after reading your post after the one responding to me, I’m going to link you my article and if you have the time I would love if you looked at it. Your points are so well articulated, I would be super interested on hearing your discourse on what I had to say https://medium.com/@maggiemcmanus/dear-horse-people-6a7f1d114de2

[snaffle1987]

@the moo; if you read my post thoroughly you would note that I said I am going to quote a post that I found on facebook made by a black African American man. And I used quotations. Go re-read it.

[snaffle1987]

@rah, my used of capital letters to emphasis a Black American person I was quoting; has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I was doing this because every poster here seems to believe that only WHITES can have such viewpoints. How could a black person even consider feeling this way. But this crowd refuses to take the cotton from their ears and the shades from their eyes. Has anyone seen the videos of blacks confronting protesters of all races? Schooling them on the fact that they are not opressed. Not everyone shares these views, even many in the black community.

[MHM]

@snaffle1987

Not everyone shares these views, even many in the black community.

Not everyone believes the earth is round. Yet I don’t know of anyone who has ever sailed off the edge of it.

[MustangTwist]

@snaffle1987

@rah, my used of capital letters to emphasis a Black American person I was quoting; has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I was doing this because every poster here seems to believe that only WHITES can have such viewpoints. How could a black person even consider feeling this way. But this crowd refuses to take the cotton from their ears and the shades from their eyes. Has anyone seen the videos of blacks confronting protesters of all races? Schooling them on the fact that they are not opressed. Not everyone shares these views, even many in the black community.

There were also women who opposed the Equal Rights Amendment. So what? People are not a monolith. Just because an opinion isn’t universally shared doesn’t mean it’s invalid or unsubstantiated. There are also a handful of people who think the world is flat. And that the Holocaust didn’t happen. And that lizard people run the government.

To build on an example someone mentioned earlier in this thread, if 97% of scientists believe climate change is real and 3% do not, why would we automatically assume the opinions of that 3% take precedence over the 97%? Which is likely to be closer to the truth?

If you’re a black American and you don’t think racism is a problem and feel like you’ve been given a 100% fair shake, that’s wonderful. I’m happy for you. But if there are many others who feel differently, why wouldn’t we at least hear them out with an open mind?

[meupatdoes]

One thing that Missy Clark, student of history though she may be, really seems to miss is that “back when the AIDS epidemic was happening”, SO WAS RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.
So it really begs the question why, in an article about racial inclusion, she pats the horse industry on the back for coming together for the AIDS community but completely skipping over racial discrimination. Recall that, in the 80s, at the same time that the government was completely ignoring the AIDS epidemic (thank you, Regan) the government was LITERALLY ENCOURAGING DRUGS TO COME IN TO OUR COUNTRY in order to do an end run around the fact that Congress wouldn’t authorize funding the Sandanistas (thanks again, Reagan). OK, Nicaragua, Congress won’t let us fund you directly, so here’s a free pass to sell drugs across the border. While we are at it let’s throw in for-profit-prisons and mass incarceration on the other side of the coin. Missy was alive and conscious when all this was happening, but apparently was too wrapped up in addressing the AIDS epidemic to remember this.

Then we move along to this gem:
“To presume minority communities have been purposely excommunicated from our world of horses is like saying equestrians are not allowed as participants in basketball. Because you may not see a majority of certain presences doesn’t mean there have been purposeful exclusions.”

Oh really?
Back in the day, a mere 15 years or so before the AIDS epidemic Missy remembers so vividly, when water fountains were separate and sitting at a lunch counter was a political act, all the Hunt Clubs opened their arms to Black members?

Any Black person could join any old hunt? There was no purposeful exclusion or discrimination? Heavens, no, not in the horse industry!

Really amazing that we get a history lesson on the AIDS epidemic but somehow these small little footnotes in history are glossed over.

[Ghazzu]

meupatdoes, I’d like to “like” your last post, but the bb seems to be glitching, and it’s marked “unapproved”.

[rah]

@snaffle1987

@rah, my used of capital letters to emphasis a Black American person I was quoting; has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I was doing this because every poster here seems to believe that only WHITES can have such viewpoints. How could a black person even consider feeling this way. But this crowd refuses to take the cotton from their ears and the shades from their eyes. Has anyone seen the videos of blacks confronting protesters of all races? Schooling them on the fact that they are not opressed. Not everyone shares these views, even many in the black community.

Hey. If there is one thing I know, it is that your type is predictable. I am going to be blunt…you and the people that share your views have had their chance, your opinions really don’t mean much to me at this point and let me tell you why.
Sorry to be political to make my point but, too bad. I can almost guarantee I know how people like you are going to vote and probably why. Usually it’s for ‘fiscal’ reasons, and unfortunately for me that also means that vote is a vote to make it legal to limit (oppress) my equal rights. I’m sure you are aware our current president, and the republicans, are currently in court fighting to make it legal to openly discriminate against me as a gay man, under the premise of religious freedom. I am going to guess people like you will vote for that again. Please be clear, I absolutely understand that means they are voting in favor of their money over my equal rights.
So, now it comes back to you wanting me to trust you and believe that people like you really do care about Black and Brown folks equal rights? Please…you might want to sit this one out.

[meupatdoes]

@Ghazzu

Umm, reports like this?

"The median household income[SUP]2[/SUP] for whites was $67,175 in 2011, as reported in the Census Bureau’s March 2012 Current Population Survey. For blacks, it was $39,760; for Asians, $68,521; and Hispanics $40,007.

Black and white incomes have risen since the late 1960s, but both have declined since 2007, the year that marked the beginning of the Great Recession. Since the 1960s the difference in black and white incomes grew from about $19,000 in 1967 to roughly $27,000 in 2011."

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013…-data-by-race/

Oh, I’m fully aware that there are more white folks on public assistance than POC. I liked to point that out to certain family members when they got on their “welfare queen” hobby horse.

That’s a leap from what I asked about.

Socioeconomic data and analysis is way out of my area of expertise, though.

Ah, and I finally found the article that prompted my initial comment:

“A close examination of wealth in the U.S. finds evidence of staggering racial disparities. At $171,000, the net worth of a typical white family is nearly ten times greater than that of a Black family ($17,150) in 2016. Gaps in wealth between Black and white households reveal the effects of accumulated inequality and discrimination, as well as differences in power and opportunity that can be traced back to this nation’s inception. The Black-white wealth gap reflects a society that has not and does not afford equality of opportunity to all its citizens.”

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr…te-wealth-gap/

@foursocks, Ghazzu raises some good questions here. Can you help us clarify our thinking on this? My statistics literacy is fair to middling, so to me, it looks like your statistics and Ghazzu’s statistics are going in opposite directions.

[meupatdoes]

@rah

Hey. If there is one thing I know, it is that your type is predictable. I am going to be blunt…you and the people that share your views have had their chance, your opinions really don’t mean much to me at this point and let me tell you why.
Sorry to be political to make my point but, too bad. I can almost guarantee I know how people like you are going to vote and probably why. Usually it for ‘fiscal’ reasons and unfortunately for me that also means that vote is a vote to make it legal to limit (oppress) my equal rights. I’m sure you are aware our current president, and the republicans, are currently in court fighting to make it legal to openly discriminate against me as a gay man, under the premise of religious freedom. I am going to guess people like you will vote for that again. Please be clear, I absolutely understand that means they are voting in favor of their money over my equal rights.
So, now it comes back to you wanting me to trust you and believe that people like you really do care about black and brown folks equal rights? Please…you might want to sit this one out.

I literally had a conversation with a Floridian Trump voter, pre election, asking them how they could vote for the erosion of gay rights that were so hard won.
The reply was that gay rights have come so far, they’re not going back.

Now this person, who let us recall, voted for Trump in an electorally significant state, hates Trump and the whole administration and is constantly posting on facebook about how terrible the current administration is.

While I’m glad she’s had a change of heart, I can’t help but be a little bitter every time I see one of those posts.

[foursocks]

Um, well, the problem with this comparison is that they are different things, but also that even the same things are measured differently by different researchers, polls, institutes, whatever. Economic gaps between groups are not the same as set parameters for lower, middle, upper-middle, upper class. Also, income (which usually determines class), is not the same as net worth. My income and my net worth are very, very, very different, sadly!

I want to make it SUPER clear that I am not saying that African Americans do not face economic discrimination and that middle class families are all the same, regardless of race or any other social cleavage. I was simply showing that if we define the middle, upper-middle, and upper classes as making a gross income of $35k and above, then the majority of African Americans fall into those categories.

As an aside, I don’t necessarily agree with those parameters as a way of even looking at quality of life, since the PPP (purchasing power parity) varies wildly from city to country, state to state, etc., so that one can live a typical middle class life quite well on X dollars in Y place, and be struggling with the same amount of money in Z place. But, very broad categories show a larger African American middle class than what is generally reflected in our culture. My point was simply that economics aren’t the sole answer to making the horse world a more inclusive place for POC, given that there is a sizable African American middle class.

As I also said in my first post, African Americans are disproportionately over-represented in the lower class and impoverished categories. Just as they are disproportionately over-represented in the prison population, get heavier sentences, face structural, often legal constraints on their ability to accumulate wealth, and so on. I’m not at all arguing against the wealth gap, which crosses racial, regional, gender, and (obviously) class lines; the US has one of the highest gini’s in the OECD (the wealthy capitalist countries) as a whole, 6th after Bulgaria, and when you then look into the other divisions, the disparity between various groups here is insane.

I’m not a data scientist, either, although I use stats a lot, so I’m not claiming expert status. Also, my area of focus is Africa, not the States. I am a Comparativist, though, so I know a little about a lot of cases. Having been forced to teach research methods for a while when I was newbie prof one thing I always made sure my students understood is that statistics can be, and often are, just as biased as anything else that we humans do. The questions you ask, the things you choose to measure, who you survey, who you don’t survey, how you do those measurements, and all of our normal human assumptions and biases come into how we understand things. Making them into nice, neat numbers on the back end can cover up that reality, but it is underneath all of it.

Anyway, again, I was just pushing back against the idea that money is THE thing to look at in this discussion. As we are now reading and hearing from more and more black and brown voices, it’s way more complex than that, and involves a lot of non-economic barriers and unwelcoming or even discriminatory environments.

[atl_hunter]

@foursocks

Um, well, the problem with this comparison is that they are different things, but also that even the same things are measured differently by different researchers, polls, institutes, whatever. Economic gaps between groups are not the same as set parameters for lower, middle, upper-middle, upper class. Also, income (which usually determines class), is not the same as net worth. My income and my net worth are very, very, very different, sadly!

I want to make it SUPER clear that I am not saying that African Americans do not face economic discrimination and that middle class families are all the same, regardless of race or any other social cleavage. I was simply showing that if we define the middle, upper-middle, and upper classes as making a gross income of $35k and above, then the majority of African Americans fall into those categories.

As an aside, I don’t necessarily agree with those parameters as a way of even looking at quality of life, since the PPP (purchasing power parity) varies wildly from city to country, state to state, etc., so that one can live a typical middle class life quite well on X dollars in Y place, and be struggling with the same amount of money in Z place. But, very broad categories show a larger African American middle class than what is generally reflected in our culture. My point was simply that economics aren’t the sole answer to making the horse world a more inclusive place for POC, given that there is a sizable African American middle class.

As I also said in my first post, African Americans are disproportionately over-represented in the lower class and impoverished categories. Just as they are disproportionately over-represented in the prison population, get heavier sentences, face structural, often legal constraints on their ability to accumulate wealth, and so on. I’m not at all arguing against the wealth gap, which crosses racial, regional, gender, and (obviously) class lines; the US has one of the highest gini’s in the OECD (the wealthy capitalist countries) as a whole, 6th after Bulgaria, and when you then look into the other divisions, the disparity between various groups here is insane.

I’m not a data scientist, either, although I use stats a lot, so I’m not claiming expert status. Also, my area of focus is Africa, not the States. I am a Comparativist, though, so I know a little about a lot of cases. Having been forced to teach research methods for a while when I was newbie prof one thing I always made sure my students understood is that statistics can be, and often are, just as biased as anything else that we humans do. The questions you ask, the things you choose to measure, who you survey, who you don’t survey, how you do those measurements, and all of our normal human assumptions and biases come into how we understand things. Making them into nice, neat numbers on the back end can cover up that reality, but it is underneath all of it.

Anyway, again, I was just pushing back against the idea that money is THE thing to look at in this discussion. As we are now reading and hearing from more and more black and brown voices, it’s way more complex than that, and involves a lot of non-economic barriers and unwelcoming or even discriminatory environments.

The magic word: DATA!!! I would love for USEF to conduct a survey so we can utilize data to better understand the question of “why don’t we have more minority participation in the sport?” Right now I’m seeing a lot of hypothesizing from people of all backgrounds, which is great because it means people are thinking! But at some point you have to test the hypothesis to get as close as you can to the root cause. The only people who can answer the question are the BIPOC folks, including people not represented here on the forum as they are the ones who are not participating. We need to get to the “Why.”

Those who have chosen to participate also need to have a voice and a chance to be heard, so we can understand what their experience is like and what we can do to make it better. But that is a different set of questions for a different target.

There are so many factors to consider, including:

• Demographics (age, gender, race)
• Income
• Logistics
• Inclusiveness
• etc...

To your point, statistic can be so biased and I have seen many of biased survey, so it would probably require the help of a consulting firm to correctly deploy, compile, and draw conclusions.

[mvp]

@danosaur

well first of all this is a lovely post. in all of this chaos I honestly haven’t seen much civil discourse, and no real calm and thoughtful representation (to me) of a view opposing, or questioning my own. So thank you, I appreciate the thought and care you took in writing it.

As far as the idea of “diluting the topic,” I am sure that I do not speak for everyone who is displeased with Missy’s piece when I say this, but no that’s not a factor for me at all. I think that human beings are generally capable of holding many issues dear to their heart, and caring about many things at once. I don’t think it’s possible to “dilute” the cause by bringing up another legitimate cause. I don’t actually have a problem at all with what Missy said regarding the horse industry’s inclusion and acceptance of gay riders. I in fact agree with Missy that the horse world was leagues ahead of the rest of the world in not only accepting the existence of gay people, but in not demonizing them during the AIDS (then GRID) panic.

My issue lies in her taking this concept, and using it to not only deny white privilege in the industry, but in general, as is implied by her repeatedly putting “white privilege” in quotes. Just because horse people are historically pretty gay friendly, doesn’t mean that they automatically could not be less than friendly toward other types of minorities. She also blames the lack of people of color on lack of money, and says it has nothing to do with race. However, socioeconomic status is inextricably linked to race. She basically says we aren’t racist, when we see black people we are nice to them, but we just don’t see them. and that’s because they can’t afford horses.

In my article posted earlier (pg 5 here somewhere I believe) I addressed why POC are less likely to afford access to horses than white people. I think that Missy is confusing systemic racism with overt racism, and I think because this is something she is ignorant about, she felt compelled to write an entire article claiming it didn’t exist. She’s just not correct in her assertions.

What made me angry reading it though was her line by line attempted takedown of Sophie. I think it’s one thing to feel optimistic about one’s industry and feel compelled to defend it, but it’s quite another thing for a grown woman, an exceptionally powerful woman inside the industry, to basically bully a minor in a national magazine about an issue that Missy clearly doesn’t spend much time thinking about. I personally would not feel any anger over this at all had she merely stated her opinion and her perspective. But it’s kind of hard to get behind her rose colored view of the horse world when she is not only (in my opinion) wrong, but also kind of mean.

@mvp Edit: after reading your post after the one responding to me, I’m going to link you my article and if you have the time I would love if you looked at it. Your points are so well articulated, I would be super interested on hearing your discourse on what I had to say https://medium.com/@maggiemcmanus/dear-horse-people-6a7f1d114de2

Thanks for your kind words and the link to your article. I skimmed it and very much appreciated the patient tutorial you gave the (willfully clueless, IMO) about systemic racism. My eyes are tired from rolling them while people who think themselves very nice, moral people ask for and then resist the easy history lesson about the many, many barriers to equality that non-whites have endured in this country. Redlining is just about at the top of those in the way they have literally shaped the geography of cities and access to jobs, education even healthy affordable food, or not. But there are so many more. I will re-read your article more carefully when I have a moment.

Your last point in this post, however, is a bit unfair. As you have it, no “grown” anyone could write that rebuttal to Gochman. That’s what I meant by the rebuttal being a fool’s errand. If you do that badly, you “lose” in the eyes of your readers for the substance of your response. And if you “win,” that is to say, you become a veritable Alan Dershowitz who makes mince meat of the kid’s article, then you are accused of publicly beating up on a child. That’s why I said I wouldn’t put my name to a rebuttal. That doesn’t mean I don’t think there isn’t one, at least in part. But its untenable to give it and that’s too bad. But you have to parse out Clark writing a somewhat lame response from the impossibility of their being a good response.

[mvp]

@DawgLady

I think we can dissect opinions all day, but I keep wondering what I can DO to help level the playing field…er, arena. Would love COTH’s thoughts on that.

Do not patronize any barn that does not pay its workers a living wage.

Start there. Spend less money somewhere else. But don’t enjoy keeping a horse by depriving someone with less privilege than you a fair wage.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Of course economic barriers are present within the industry at every level, particularly at the level Sophie Gochman rides at and Missy Clark trains at, but the idea that everyone who walks through the barn door is treated a certain way simply if they have enough money certainly isn’t true. How often during the Safe Sport debate did people say they accepted abuse from trainers to ensure they had access to certain horses, trainers, or simply because they were afraid to object to something so accepted in the culture of the industry?

No matter how much an individual rider might try to oppose racist language and mistreatment, if it’s pervasive in a largely all-white environment, it’s going to have a psychologically damaging, alienating effect and create a climate that normalizes racism. I hate to say it, but I’ve seen and heard a great deal of casual racism in the horse world. Because of that lack of diversity, people are, unfortunately, very comfortable with expressing prejudice. While some of the barns I’ve ridden at have been relatively diverse, when an environment and an industry is so dominated by a certain group, it’s very difficult for people to speak up and be heard, especially if they’re not a major player or are simply very young.

Some disciplines are clearly more diverse than others, and there certainly are a number of very prominent equestrians of color who are riders, trainers, breeders, judges, and so forth, but that doesn’t erase the difficulties they’ve had to overcome. It doesn’t erase the casual racism they’ve had to experience regardless of income level, prejudiced language directed at grooms (and I can only imagine the difficulties of persons of color trying to get an inroad in the industry as grooms and work their way up), and just the basic “industry image” of the typical rider as white. I mean, even the so-called ideal of hunter hair (which we all know now isn’t even safe to wear beneath a helmet) is impossible for some people to achieve (including myself, who has very coarse, textured hair).

I didn’t think Gochman was necessarily the best first voice to air her opinion on the debate, given that this tends to create an endless rebuttal cycle of “but I’m not as privileged as her, how dare she speak up” but even what I considered to be fairly obvious, simple statements generated outrage, so I guess I was wrong. I don’t know what Missy Clark attempted to achieve. She obviously has an established place within the industry as one of a tiny handful of barns necessary to train at to be meaningful competitive in the Big Eq, so her livelihood is clearly secure, but I’m not sure what she hoped to gain with her Op-Ed denying racism exists solely because she refuses to see it.

I’m glad COTH is starting to solicit more editorials of riders of color. The fact they waited for people to come to them (Gochman and Clark) to address the issue in the first place, though, is disappointing.

I should note that I am not a person of color, btw, and these are just my perceptions, and if someone is, feel free to step in and give their personal observations from their lives, I don’t want to sound like an authority on others’ experiences.