I was curious if anyone has any Soprano offspring that are excelling in the jumper ring?
As a second question, how “dual purpose” are “dressage” sires? For example if someone were looking for a jumper prospect and there were dressage bred youngsters available, what would you look for that would tell you that they may have potential in the jumper ring as well?
I don’t know about offspring in jumpers but we bred to him for an event prospect and are absolutely thrilled with the foal. He has some amazing jumping lines in his pedigree including Cor de la Bryere, Ladykiller, and sex balanced Ramiro Z.
They say that you can put jumper blood into dressage lines, but not dressage lines into making a jumper, as it could be a jump killer. That being said, Sandro Hit has jumper lines and they say he sucked at jumping. Dunno, really.
There are genuine all rounders that can produce both up to an international level, Riverman being one. Exceptions to every rule tho.
The answer to this always has to be in the form of the question : “At what level?”
Some dressage bred horses had good jumping scores at their testing, but that avenue was not pursued so you never found out if they could jump competitively or not.
Generally, if I wanted to breed for the top of ANY sport, I would not go outside the box to do it. But let’s face it, if you are jumping or eventing at lower levels a handy horse could do it no matter what.
For instance, the “R” line is known to be dressage mostly, but there are successful hunters & LL eventers as well (I think there is even one UL eventer…a gelding son of Rubinstein).
I love Soprano and have bred to him as well, but I would not use him to produce a GP jumper. I think even his owner would agree with that.
As the owner of Soprano, I would like to respond to this inquiry. I agree with what Kyzteke has posted. If my goal was to produce an international grand prix jumper, there are other stallions that come to mind first. If, however, I wanted to breed a top international event horse or top hunter, I would definitely consider Soprano as a stallion as he produces offspring with very good gaits, athleticism, excellent rideability, and very good jumping technique and scope. If I had a talented jumper mare with jumper bloodlines but lacking rideability, I would absolutely consider Soprano for that type of mare as he adds rideability without taking away jumping ability.
Although Soprano is well known for producing top dressage talent, he has also sired some very talented hunter/jumper and eventing prospects. It is not surprising as Soprano carries the blood of Sandro, Contender and Tin Rocco in his pedigree. A few offspring are noted below with some photos attached:
Geneva: (Soprano/Argus) Reserve Champion Three-Year Old In Hand at the 2014 Young Horse Show Series Final in Tyron, NC showing excellent free-jumping technique (photo attached)
Siangie Prano: (Soprano/Semper) Attached photo shows his fantastic jumping ability.
SoulPower: (Soprano/Macsen’s Sword/Hagley xx) Competed in the 2013 USEA Future Event Horse Series and won all of his classes. He also took first place at the 2013 USEA Future Event Horse East Coast Championship at Fair Hill 3-Year Old Colts/Geldings Class.
Issabella C: (Soprano out of Connelly Road xx) A six-year old currently in training as an event horse and doing exceptionally well. Bred and owned by a former USA Equestrian Eventing Team member.
Encore (Soprano/Silvio I) Six-Year old gelding currently competing and winning in Wellington, FL in Pre-Green Hunters.
Samba (Soprano/Donnerhall) Graded runner-up Champion in Denmark in the Danish Main Studbook with excellent marks for movement and jumping technique/scope.
FWIW, it is my understanding that Sandro Hit didn’t “suck at jumping”, he just didn’t have enough scope for the international big ring - and that is what the Germans want in their jumping horses. They don’t breed for the lower jumper classes, or for hunters, and a stallion that didn’t show top talent wasn’t going to garner a lot of attention from the jumper breeders. He got a decent number of jumper bred mares his first few years at stud, but those first foal crops didn’t produce many offspring with exceptional jumping talent (i.e., scope) either. Good thing for him (and Schockemoehle, and dressage breeders), that he was a fancy mover and won the 6 y/o World Breeding Championships for dressage horses, AND was proving to be pretty consistent for siring typey, fancy-moving, dark coated foals, or he would have disappeared into obscurity.
That said, in addition to the ones that Alain (Olde Country) mentioned, Sandro Hit has a fair number of descendants doing lower level jumpers, hunters, and eventing. (A friend of mine has a 15.1h Sandro Hit daughter that evented to Prelim and would absolutely eat up a cross-country course - would tackle anything you pointed her at. They were talking about moving her up to Intermediate - not sure if they did or not, though, and she is now bred for an eventing foal).
One of the oldest offspring of my Donnerhall mare (Donnerhall/Romadour II) and by the stallion Royal Diamond (Rubinstein/Inshalla) is an Intermediate eventer with plenty of scope and talent to keep going up.
Not blood you would associate with jumping and yet…:
Royal Jumping
Incidentally I bred the same mare to Soprano this year exactly for a multi-purpose horse but I will not expect a grand prix jumper out of it!
Alain – WOW!! All I can say is that Siangie Prano horse is something else! What an athlete. Makes me wish I had a jumper-bred mare to use this year with Soprano.
Alas, just my dressage-y bred Rubinstein granddaughter. But I’m sure I will be thrilled with the foal no matter what…I sure do love Soprano filly #1…she is GORGEOUS!
Just wanted to share with anyone interested in Soprano as a jumper sire the results of one of his offspring who is competing in eventing here in the United States. Issabella C, a six year old mare by Soprano out Connelly Road xx, owned and bred by Mary Hazzard, began her eventing career this season by winning 3 competitions out of 4 at Novice level. On May 2, 2015 she moved up to Training Level and won her first time out in Open Training Division 1 at the MCTA Horse Trials, Shawan Downs. Out of 5 events, Issabella C has won 4. Congratulations to Mary Hazzard. Photos of Isabella C are attached.
I just spent a moment looking at this thread and at Soprano’s website and the video. Words can’t convey what a remarkable animal he was. It must have been a thrill to simply live with him day in and day out.
Those of us who breed recognize that undefinable “something” that makes a sire extraordinary. It is more than physical beauty… it’s more than an amazing pedigree and the ability to stamp his offspring. Soprano took it to another level. There is a visceral feeling you get watching this living embodiment of “perfection.”
My heart goes out to Gayle and Alain. He will never be replaced but I hope they have a “young Soprano” in the pipeline to carry him forward.
^^^^Totally agree!!^^^^
I think he was one of the best stallions standing in the US, and arguably one of the best Sandro Hit sons. And he has a very strong damline – I love Contender!
You know, I heard that when his first foals started to hit the ground (shortly after he was sold to Alain) Blue Hors was so impressed by the consistant quality of the crop they tried to buy Soprano back again – but (obviously) Alain didn’t go for it.
Lucky us for that choice.
IMO Soprano has been a great producer; the filly he sired o/o my Weltmeyer/Batido mare is absolutely stunning. Not only athletic, bold and correct, but PRETTY! Small, refined head; big, dark eyes…I mean from foal to just recently she was wearing an Arab halter.
And I know she did not get that head from her dam or granddam – the granddam had a head the size of a Geo Metro and her daughter (the filly’s dam) is just a slight improvement. So that head had to come from Soprano.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99704127@N03/10138769913/in/album-72157636289569323/
I know you don’t ride the head, but that “pretty” part is sure nice to look at every day. And if I ever decide to sell her, “pretty” always helps.
I have another breeding to Soprano; I am planning on using this year – I’m thinking I will use my Rubino Bellissimo daughter (also o/o the same Batido mare) this time.
Hopefully Soprano can work his magic on that foal’s head – to call that mare’s head “plain” would be a compliment.:eek:.
I’m willing to take the risk because one of Soprano’s best get is a mare o/o an “R” line dam.
Thank goodness for frozen semen (and Soprano’s frozen is awesome!), but nothing will replace the lovely stallion himself. So very, very sad…
I don’t know about Soprano’s sons, but I can vouch for the fact he’s left behind some first class daughters to carry his blood forward.
Any updates on this thread? So sad he passed, He was just down the road from me I regret I did not visit him… If you have a jumper bred mare that could use more rideability, but has huge movement, might he still be a fit?.Also if breeding and getting a horse to the big ring does not seem to be a realistic goal.
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