Sore- Back Mystery in OTTB Mare

[liz-hj92]

I have a mare in training that has always been on the sensitive side. She is incredibly sweet and has a fantastic work ethic but can be on the spooky side. She had been off for about a month with very little riding before being put back into training. We started her on Mare Magic which helped the spookiness quite a bit and she got back into work like the great mare she is. We began slowly with very little jumping and a lot of flatwork. As she got more in shape we upped the intensity. This continued for three months. At the beginning of December she began to show signs of some stiffness in her right hind leg. We pulled the vet out and we did a full work up on the leg with no results other than we narrowed it down to either the hock, stifle, or SI. We gave her two weeks off with anti-inflammatories and walk only rides and time on the Theraplate. When the vet came back for a follow up she was incredibly back and hip sore. We put her on stall rest with hand walks and even had a chiropractor out with no results. She has been out of work for over a month now and has no got any better. Recently the owners got a Back On Track blanket and we have been putting that on her. She doesn’t really show the symptoms of being ‘cold-backed’ no buck or bad manners. She is still her sweet self but her back is so sore that we could put her on the ground by pressing on her back. My first thoughts were that it is a secondary problem to the hock/stifle/SI problem but she has always been sensitive so it could possibly be a back problem. In the past she has been sensitive in her back but not in a painful way.

Any ideas? We are running out of ideas for this little mare and would love to get her sound again.

[vxf111]

Has anyone x-rayed the back?? Sounds like time for a full workup!

[ryansgirl]

Get the back xray’d. I’m leaning towards Kissing Spines… Only way to confirm is with the xrays. I hauled my mare to a vet hospital for a full work up when she started having back issues. Unfortunately KS is what made my super talented OTTB mare a pasture pet (she’s staying with me no matter what though :)).

[liz-hj92]

Will a horse with Kissing Spines behave normally in turnout? This one will play with her buddy all day long if we let her. Lately we have kept her quiet but I have seen them run, buck, and play like babies with no discomfort.

I came across Kissing Spines in my search and everything I have found is that a horse with Kissing Spines will have a change in behavior, start bucking, won’t stretch down through the topline. This one will do all of that with the most pleasant expression on so I am reluctant to go toward that direction. It is a possibility but I would like to exhaust the other possibilities first. We are going to start walking her under saddle after this week and see if anything has changed under saddle. If she has a bad attitude I will bring up Kissing Spines.

[Finzean]

I wouldn’t discount SI issues…tricky. We gave away a very, very nice mare last year b/c of SI issues. Was eerily similar to what you are describing… After so much $ we just threw in the towel… good luck as you run this down, it’s frustrating

[vxf111]

I knew a KS mare that was 100% in the pasture and doing 4th level dressage under saddle when she was diagnosed. They don’t all buck and stand in the stall in misery… But she was in pain and the x-rays gave a clear answer.

[ryansgirl]

My mare bucks, gallops, plays, etc. without issue in turnout (not once did she buck u/s) - in fact you’d think she’s perfectly sound based on her behavior out in the field…but touch her back and then you’ll know something is wrong. She tried her hardest to do what I was asking but something wasn’t quite right so I had the full work up done on her. Plenty of horses have KS and still continue to work. Unfortunately with my mare it just isn’t possible (she is super sensitive). Simple x-rays will confirm if your mare does or does not have KS (though you typically have to go someplace like a hospital for the x-rays as they are hard to do in the field).

[vxf111]

Instead of doing a bunch of unproven stuff that cannot alone cure a soft tissue/ bony problem (BOT, theraplate, etc.) and keeping the horse “in training,” the money would be better spent on a vet workup! If this mare is crippled when you touch her back and was always sensitive there-- those are major signs of a physical issue beyond what heat and vibrating are going to resolve.

[ryansgirl]

My mare bucks, gallops, plays, etc. without issue in turnout (not once did she buck u/s) - in fact you’d think she’s perfectly sound based on her behavior out in the field…but touch her back and then you’ll know something is wrong. She tried her hardest to do what I was asking but something wasn’t quite right so I had the full work up done on her. Plenty of horses have KS and still continue to work. Unfortunately with my mare it just isn’t possible (she is super sensitive). Simple x-rays will confirm if your mare does or does not have KS (though you typically have to go someplace like a hospital for the x-rays as they are hard to do in the field).

[ryansgirl]

[QUOTE=vxf111;7957189]
Instead of doing a bunch of unproven stuff that cannot alone cure a soft tissue/ bony problem (BOT, theraplate, etc.) and keeping the horse “in training,” the money would be better spent on a vet workup! If this mare is crippled when you touch her back and was always sensitive there-- those are major signs of a physical issue beyond what heat and vibrating are going to resolve.[/QUOTE]

Exactly this.

[kbrethauer]

I highly recommend a bone scan from a reputable vet. My gelding had very similar issues to your mare and it turned out that he had fractured his 3rd Trochanter. He did not flex off on the left hind, but was VERY back sore through the lumbar spine and SI.

[findeight]

You can’t generalize about horses behavior when they are in pain…that statement OP read somewhere about the behavior of KS horses is just wrong. There is no specific way KS horses act differentiating them from other horses with neck and back pain from other causes. IMO the only thing that can be a big clue leading to KS is both behavior and physical symptoms can be worse under saddle and non exsistent out in the field. Some KS horses present with “mystery lamness and NQR”, never displaying anything like the described behavior. Owners spend thousands chasing various vague symptoms sometimes for years, missing the actual culprit.

Besides KS, this horse could have a fracture or dislocation, they can slip and fall, they roll on something or get cast in the stall (or even up against the pasture fence), hurt themselves struggling but manage to get upright and nobody sees or realizes it happened. Modern imaging equipment finds all sorts of these nobody ever thought of before it was available.

The ability to diagnose KS and other spinal and skeletal issues is pretty new, only now realizing how many training and “attitude” problems are actually caused by them. Because all we ever used to be able to do is try to train it out not realizing what was causing it…hard to put into words here…it’s not something many older horsemen think of? Understand what I am getting at?

Some people who have been at this for a long time are not always aware of advances in diagnostics and what they are revealing about the causes of pain and misbehavior in horses. So when you ask them about a problem, they don’t recommend looking for fractures, dislocations or KS-because they don’t know and rely on what they do know. Not all trainers, farriers and unlicensed, unregulated body work practitioners keep up. Some vets don’t either.

[FoxyRoxy1507]

Full work up is a good idea, but how are her feet? Do you have pictures? It could be she is not trimmed correctly and slowly over the time of increasing her workout might have stressed her muscles due to incorrect trimming

[M_Owen]

I agree with everyone who is saying bone scan/ full work up, and F8 hit the nail on the head saying that more ‘old school’ horse people may not consider going the full technological diagnostic route.

My horse had a torn ligament in her SI area that we found by doing a bone scan, which lead to an ultra sound to confirm. We never would have found it and had “ruled out” SI through the normal at home veterinary exams at home. My horse (unlike yours) is not overly sensitive and wasn’t showing any clearly defined pain anywhere, but was stopping at fences which is just NOT how she normally behaves. Take advantage of the diagnostic tools available today, it can be such a relief to address the real problem rather than going little by little at home.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=M. Owen;7957589]
I agree with everyone who is saying bone scan/ full work up, and F8 hit the nail on the head saying that more ‘old school’ horse people may not consider going the full technological diagnostic route. …

… Take advantage of the diagnostic tools available today, it can be such a relief to address the real problem rather than going little by little at home.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, you said that better then I did.

I am “old school” but we simply did not have the kind of diagnostics and imaging equipment back then and when it first came along it was stupid expensive and required hours in a trailer to get to, so it was not an option.

Maybe the last 20 years it’s started to get more accessible and, since more are using it, we are learning more and more about what is actually causing pain and behavior issues. But not everybody is aware and new owners often are not given appropriate advice. Or told the truth about easy fixes and quick rehabs.

Today I look back at some of the less successful horses I have had and realize there was something wrong we simply did not recognize and I do regret that. Never again.

[M_Owen]

I am sure it has been considered and ruled out, and I think unlikely root cause as a month off has been given, but consider saddle fit also. F8’s comment about horses from the past got me thinking along those lines. I had one in the late 80s early 90s timeframe that was chronically “cold backed” and we never even considered saddle fit at that time. One of those if I knew then what I know now moments.

[jawa]

OHH let me count the ways…

Sore hocks

Sore heels in the hind

Lyme

Low Selenium

Sore hooves in the front

Sore in the fetlocks up front

Being stalled for more than 8 hours

Being cold

A slightly off fit in the saddle…not a bad fit…

This is for a “prince” and a pea type of horse…he will let me know when things are just NOT right.

Best of luck figuring out what “thing” is causing your issues, and I sure hope it is ONE thing instead of all of the others that I have found to cause back pain. And yes, all of these were in 1 horse!!