Souper Spectacular, half to Zenyatta, found at GA auction

[Texarkana]

Has anyone seen this from the Facebook group OTTB Connect?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3571…action_generic

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We rescued this amazing boy at an auction in Eastanollee GA on 8/11.
Anyone know him? His name is Souper Spectacular, 11yrs old.

The poster in the comments claims that she called Live Oak Plantation/Live Oak Stud, spoke to a woman she could not name who was rude to her. The woman said they “gave him away,” and no one gave a “rats butt” according to the poster, which doesn’t sound like Live Oak at all. The poster sounds like she requested (demanded?) his papers and the woman on the phone said she could only offer a black and white copy.

Curious to see how this story unfolds… and of course, I’m glad he found a soft landing!

[erroneous]

Hmm, sold for $1.15 mil as a yearling and $390 as an 11 yr old.

[beaulilly]

Have been following that FB post! So glad he was picked up. Can only imagine their surprise when they ran his tattoo and found out who was standing in their Barn!

Looks like they got a nice horse regardless of who his famous half sister is.

[PeteyPie]

Wow, this is going to blow up.

I admit I’m curious about how this happened, although we’ve heard the same tale over and over. I have all sorts of comments I’d like to make but they have all been said before so I will just say one, which is that it is kind of sad that we are all over this story but some poor old grade gelding who was in the same auction will go quietly off to slaughter without any fuss or hand wringing.

[Texarkana]

I got behind on the comments, but it seems the owner says he was sent to a zoo(?!?), then to another woman who took him to the auction.

It’s hard to get through all the comments with the usual OTTB Connect ridiculousness like, “my horse is related, he’s out of Storm Cat too!” :rolleyes:

I would really like to know Live Oak’s end of the story. No one in Charlotte Weber’s family would be okay with this.

[Scribbler]

Half to Zenyatta meaning same sire or same dam?

If sire, there are thousands of foals by prolific studs. If you stand a race horse stud, you breed to others in the industry, but take no responsibility for where those horses end up, in racing or beyond.

If dam, still there could be half a dozen or more foals, and once they are sold on, you don’t have control over their destiny.

I also understand from COTH threads that it is typical for jockey club papers to not accompany horses that are being sold or rehomed to riding homes. Also that even breeders or trainers who care about the initial post track placement don’t want to be brought into the loop 5 or 10 years later and be held accountable for every stupid decision of the new owners since the trainer last laid eyes on the horse.

I realize this rescue group is probably taking advantage of name recognition to do a little publicity on the plight of retired race horses. But it’s also a lesson in the vagaries of breeding because my guess is this boy didn’t turn into a big money maker. We also don’t know if he is sound.

I think honestly it is bad tactics to publicly shame a trainer or breeder for things that happened after the horse was out of their ownership. You want the racetrack industry onside with the rescue and rehab organizations, and potentially helping fund them and passing along good horses.

OK I went to the FB page and no one is bashing the breeder or trainer. And all my points are already made there

[Texarkana]

@Scribbler

Half to Zenyatta meaning same sire or same dam?

If sire, there are thousands of foals by prolific studs. If you stand a race horse stud, you breed to others in the industry, but take no responsibility for where those horses end up, in racing or beyond.

If dam, still there could be half a dozen or more foals, and once they are sold on, you don’t have control over their destiny.

I also understand from COTH threads that it is typical for jockey club papers to not accompany horses that are being sold or rehomed to riding homes. Also that even breeders or trainers who care about the initial post track placement don’t want to be brought into the loop 5 or 10 years later and be held accountable for every stupid decision of the new owners since the trainer last laid eyes on the horse.

I realize this rescue group is probably taking advantage of name recognition to do a little publicity on the plight of retired race horses. But it’s also a lesson in the vagaries of breeding because my guess is this boy didn’t turn into a big money maker. We also don’t know if he is sound.

I think honestly it is bad tactics to publicly shame a trainer or breeder for things that happened after the horse was out of their ownership. You want the racetrack industry onside with the rescue and rehab organizations, and potentially helping fund them and passing along good horses.

Not impressed.

Here’s your lesson for the day: no one in the racing industry uses the term “half sibling” unless it is the same dam. You would say “by the same sire” if that applied. This horse shares a dam with Zenyatta.

Non-racing people make a bigger deal over papers than racing people. You literally only need a TBs papers to go through public auction and to race. Papers usually end up living in the racing office or farm office. If you have a horse who you don’t want to race in the future, you usually don’t send papers along because there is no need for them (and often you don’t have them handy). You don’t even need them to breed so long as you can confirm the horses’ identities. Jockey Club is actually supposed to be transitioning to digital foal certificates, so they are about to become obsolete.

The story on this horse was that he was retired at his racing owner’s farm. His racing owner is a billionaire heiress to the Campbells Soup fortune. Nearly the entire family is heavily involved in horses in some form and active in horse welfare. Which is why this situation is so perplexing to me; they are not ones to sweep their horses under the rug. Especially not a horse like this.

The rescuer sounds like a private individual, not a “rescue,” but I cannot confirm that. It also sounds like from the tone of her comments that she may have contacted Live Oak in anger or accusation, but that could be a totally wrong assumption.

[Scribbler]

I know from COTH that half sibling means from the same dam. But I did not know how the folks on this rescue fb group were using the term, since all the fuss about papers suggested that they weren’t necessarily that racing savvy.

So I asked for clarification on how this fb thread was using this term. Because I ve learned to never assume that anyone in FB is using terms “correctly” whatever they are discussing!

[ASB_Stars]

If I am anyone connected to Live Oak or the Weber’s (and I am not) I certainly wouldn’t go public with this, especially not until I’ve verified everything. In this day and age, especially, with the immediacy of information, and all of those with a keyboard dying to take their shot, it makes no sense to feed the trolls.

I would imagine that the Webers would be deeply concerned about this, and be active in trying to figure out what happened, end ensure the horses future security.

But I am just sitting behind a keyboard, guessing…

[Texarkana]

@ASB Stars I hope that is what they are doing- verifying. But they would be remiss if they don’t make a statement, and sooner rather than later. One area where racing people have collectively, consistently struggled is with PR, and this is one more opportunity to improve upon it.

Don’t get me wrong; I am 100% on the connections side. This horse had good connections all the way from birth— the type who looks out for their horses and has the affluence and influence to do so properly. Which is why I’m struggling with this and would really like to hear from them. Right now it seems the rescuer is under the impression that they don’t care, which I know is not true.

This boy is proof that all it takes is one wrong turn for things to go awry.

[Texarkana]

Some press coverage that outlines the purchasers story more clearly than trying to pick through the comments:

https://www.usracing.com/news/sad-tale-zenyattas-little-brother

[PeteyPie]

@Texarkana

@ASB Stars I hope that is what they are doing- verifying. But they would be remiss if they don’t make a statement, and sooner rather than later. One area where racing people have collectively, consistently struggled is with PR, and this is one more opportunity to improve upon it.

Don’t get me wrong; I am 100% on the connections side. This horse had good connections all the way from birth— the type who looks out for their horses and has the affluence and influence to do so properly. Which is why I’m struggling with this and would really like to hear from them. Right now it seems the rescuer is under the impression that they don’t care, which I know is not true.

This boy is proof that all it takes is one wrong turn for things to go awry.

Yeah, they would be smart to get ahead of this. There is a lot to improve in the horse racing world re: aftercare. Having said that, I see the Thoroughbred industry and supporters really making efforts, and I am impressed with all of the effective ones such as New Vocations, Old Friends, CANTER, and the many other charities, both independent and those tied to specific race tracks or to the Jockey Club.

[Pronzini]

The lady who bought him seems nice and it looks like the story will end well and that’s great. But this isn’t a racing story. It’s not even really an aftercare story–at least from a racing career because he’s 6 years down the road from being at the track. This is the glimpse into the sometimes ugly reality that I see often glossed over of keeping a large, expensive animal that requires large and expensive space and lots of food and lots of care in the modern world. That’s why most of them have to earn their keep in some way. We know more than is usual with grade horses because TBs are so traceable but there is obviously more to his story that we just don’t know. Where has he been? Who is the person who let him down and why? Before the pitchforks come out, I would want to know those things. There could be a sad story there and one that could not be anticipated by Live Oak or anyone else.

I get it–it’s easy to dump on the racetrack and sometimes I concede it is even warranted. But this horse isn’t that time. The bad stuff is probably just in the last year or so or this horse wouldn’t be alive at all.

[snaffle1987]

Certainly given Live Oak’s land holdings in Florida and wealth you would think that a horse who was decently successful on the track with a family like that; they could’ve turned him out for life in one of their pastures or found someone local to train him in a 2nd career.

I am sad for the horse but incredibly sad that these wealthy folks don’t stand behind their horses. sent him off to a zoo?? have to be kidding me…

[trubandloki]

@snaffle1987

Certainly given Live Oak’s land holdings in Florida and wealth you would think that a horse who was decently successful on the track with a family like that; they could’ve turned him out for life in one of their pastures or found someone local to train him in a 2nd career.

I am sad for the horse but incredibly sad that these wealthy folks don’t stand behind their horses. sent him off to a zoo?? have to be kidding me…

This is kind of a leap of facts here.

Just as likely is Live Oak did find him a second career with a new owner. That new owner (or some owner after that) sent him off to the zoo, all while Live Oak had no idea it happened.

When you (general) sell a horse (to a second career) you have no control over what the people you sell to do with the horse and it seems unreasonable for anyone to expect even these wealthy owners to follow every horse they ever produced.

[Scribbler]

@trubandloki

This is kind of a leap of facts here.

Just as likely is Live Oak did find him a second career with a new owner. That new owner (or some owner after that) sent him off to the zoo, all while Live Oak had no idea it happened.

When you (general) sell a horse (to a second career) you have no control over what the people you sell to do with the horse and it seems unreasonable for anyone to expect even these wealthy owners to follow every horse they ever produced.

Yes, this. Also I expect it is hard for Live Oaks to make a statement because they don’t know what happened. Presumably he went to a decent home, possibly a trainer that schools and sells OTTB. Then to a riding home.

I’ve certainly seen enough nicer jumper WBs end up NQR in mind or body, and warehoused on pasture losing ground, given away for $1 for anyone who wants to try rehab. These are horses that cost $60,000 on their last sale.

A horse with no resale value is a net expense and if land gets sold, parents get divorced, caretaker dies, it has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is an auction. Or a rescue, if the people involved know about those.

I am sure that Soupy will turn out to have had a performance ending injury in his riding career even if it is mild and healed up OK.

The last thing Live Oaks should do is name the person they sold the horse to and throw them under the bus. You don’t rehome raw OTTB to “forever homes.” You place then with experienced trainers who school and sell and make a bit of profit on the turnaround. That trainer is not responsible for where the horse ends up 5 years later.

[Christa_P]

I can’t help thinking the person that donated him to a zoo truly wanted him to disappear with no trace. :mad:

[Palm_Beach]

@snaffle1987

Certainly given Live Oak’s land holdings in Florida and wealth you would think that a horse who was decently successful on the track with a family like that; they could’ve turned him out for life in one of their pastures or found someone local to train him in a 2nd career.

I am sad for the horse but incredibly sad that these wealthy folks don’t stand behind their horses. sent him off to a zoo?? have to be kidding me…

You should try rescuing a few and finding them a home. It’s hard. And then try to keep tabs on them year in and year out. I’ve even had to go fetch them when I’ve given them to people I thought I knew pretty well and could trust that they would give me a call if something went wrong, but heard through the grapevine they were trying to give the horse away. It’s like they are ashamed that they promised they’d give the horse a good home, with me being perfectly clear the horse can do hunter, low level jumpers and low level eventing, and then kick the horse to the curb a year or two later when he can’t be an upper level eventer.

[ASB_Stars]

@Palm Beach

You should try rescuing a few and finding them a home. It’s hard. And then try to keep tabs on them year in and year out. I’ve even had to go fetch them when I’ve given them to people I thought I knew pretty well and could trust that they would give me a call if something went wrong, but heard through the grapevine they were trying to give the horse away. It’s like they are ashamed that they promised they’d give the horse a good home, with me being perfectly clear the horse can do hunter, low level jumpers and low level eventing, and then kick the horse to the curb a year or two later when he can’t be an upper level eventer.

True.

But, do you have unlimited funds?

It does change the perspective on a situation like this.

I stopped being a breeder when I found that I was having to go and get my horses out of trouble once too often.

I co-founded a 501.c.3 rescue to try and help out horses in need, and found that the challenges are often overwhelming.

But, we did not have unlimited funds.

It’s a challenge, without doubt, but these animals should not be disposable.

[Palm_Beach]

@ASB Stars

True.

But, do you have unlimited funds?

Nope. Wish I did. Every dollar I spend when I take in someone else’s broke down cast off is a dollar out of my pocket that was supposed to go somewhere else like towards a new barn roof or my retirement account. And I get no 501c3 tax relief.