I’m new to the breed. Have any of you used them for dressage?
I’ve ridden one but have never owned one. They are gorgeous --flashy and big bodied. They have lots of front leg action but a tendency for trailing quarters. The issue for me would be the neck and back. They are very upright in the neck with strong shoulders and a flat back typical of the carriage breeds. To get the horse “over the back” and truly supple will take a skilled rider with a lot of time. The one I rode had a wonderful trot but was less balanced in the canter. I would not be surprised if this was typical of the breed, like some Friesians.
A Dutch harness horse competed at the US dressage finals and did well as I recall. You might be able to find some video on USEF Network.
They are (or were, for a while–I’m not up on current trends) a popular cross with Arabians, so you may be able to find some video searching for half-Arab crosses as well.
I have a gelding who is 1/4 DHH, and he is very upright in front as Crash Helmet said. Fortunately I don’t think he’s going to be too difficult to teach to use himself and stretch over the back, but that is definitely going to be something he has to work on vs. a natural strength. He also has a ton of suspension, especially in his trot, although he’s not strong enough under saddle yet to see it there. He also wants to naturally move uphill and is very light/free in his shoulders.
Don’t they have a bit of ASB in their bloodline now? That is what they remind me of. Flashy, upheaded.
Laura Graves’ horse GP horse Verdades is from a DHH damline.
There was another one a few years ago from a DHH damline that did fairly well in the YH classes. I remember seeing it at a Scott Hassler YH clinic in our area. The rider had some trouble with canter with the horse - it didn’t want to pick it up, just kept trotting faster and bigger. When it did canter, it was huge and scopey but even Scott felt it was going to be a tough job getting that canter collected.
Comments I have heard about most of them pretty much echo what Crash Helmet said - very flashy and eye-catching, upright in the head and neck (which makes them appear quite uphill), with very fancy gait mechanics (lots of articulation of the joints in front and behind). Drawbacks are a somewhat rigid topline with not a lot of elasticity (which is often a trademark of the Dutch dressage bred horses, too), a reluctance to not work through the topline, and hindquarters that don’t really sit and carry.
I think I would be very hesitant about buying one with a full harness pedigree to use for dressage, as it seems it could be a struggle to get one to work through the topline correctly. A half-bred like Verdades could be of interest, though, but it would depend on the other half of the pedigree.
As for ASB - I believe the Amish are now big into DHH, and are probably crossing them with their Saddlebred horses. I don’t know if the Dutch are using Saddlebred blood though. I do know a certain number of the Dutch bred ones have hackney blood somewhere back in the pedigrees.
Check out Lauren Spreiser’s blog on here. You should be able to scroll back to her posts about hers.
I bred my Flemmingh x Rubenstein mare to a Harness Horse stallion and have the two foals. They are three and four years old.
They are being started very carefully, learning to stretch over their backs and work long and low. They are developing strong toplines from the get go.
I am very pleased with them so far.
Many years ago 2 American Saddlebreds, Holland’s Golden Boy and Immigrant were exported to Holland. I remember reading somewhere that they were a failure in improving the Dutch harness horse. Here is what Wikipedia says: The Dutch have a strong tradition of breeding driving horses, and during the late 19th century and early 20th century, these horses were known as “luxury horses.” They consisted of two separate breeds: northern Groningens which were heavier and primarily dark colors, and Gelderlanders from the south which were taller, leggier, and usually chestnut. They were elegant, though heavy, carriage horses which could work on the farm too. Naturally, horse owners felt competitive about whose horse or horses were the finest and most showy. This was not forgotten when mechanization made agricultural horses obsolete and the driving horses needed a new occupation. The Royal Warmblood Horse Studbook of the Netherlands or KWPN was founded in 1969 and from the beginning featured a distinct studbook for driving horses.
Much of the development from heavy carriage horse to fine driving horse was completed within the native horse populations, however the influence of the Hackney stallion Cambridge Cole significantly helped the gene pool. Also influential was the chestnut American Saddlebred stallion, Immigrant (American Saddlebred Horse Association name Callaway’s Mardi Gras), born in 1990. In comparison to his Dutch peers, his gaits were not considered impressive, but he did contribute his good character and dry type to the gene pool. Other Hackneys to cover Dutch Harness Horse mares were Marfleet Raffles and his son Grants Hornet, and Brook Acres Silversul. Currently the Hackney Horse stallions GTF Maker’s Mark and Plain’s Liberator are approved for use in Dutch Harness Horse breeding. A palomino American Saddlebred stallion, originally named Denmark’s Golden Playboy, stood in the Netherlands as Holland’s Golden Boy.
I’ve got one! Or half of one. His sire was a Danish GP jumper, and his dam is DHH. As Crash Helmet mentioned, his biggest weakness was his tendency to get upright in the neck with the hocks out behind. Thanks perhaps to his jumper bloodlines, he’s got a great canter and his highest scores go to his tempi changes. He’s got a good passage and piaffe, but keeping it connected in the test is a challenge.
We’ve shown 2nd through GP. He’s best if he’s kept very busy-- so our scores at PSG and I-1 are much better than 2nd and 3rd.
I have a Dutch Harness Horse Arabian cross. Her Arabian side is her sire, and he was a race horse and then a National Champion English Pleasure horse (saddleseat), so I am pretty sure Izzy was bred for saddleseat…but failed.
Izzy does have the upright neck and doesn’t want to use her back…although it is coming. Some of that could be her early training though…I am sure she was started out for saddle seat, and although she was showing sport horse when I bought her, they had her shod “for higher knee action”.
She doesn’t have a flat back though, and has actually been easy to fit saddle wise, going in the same MW saddle I had made for my warmblood gelding.
From my research, they are known for being HOT too.
Not sure I would buy one with the idea they are bred for dressage in any way, but an individual within the breed may do very well.
Below is a link to me riding a 1/2 Dutch Harness (KWPN) and 1/2 Percheron. He is young and ridiculously tall (18 h) but is a really fun horse to ride. Very responsive for his size and also very forward for a horse that is 1/2 draft. When we first bought him, his canter was like a carthorse! However, he is learning to use his back a lot better and got an “8” on one of his canter circles in this test. He’s just doing training level, but has shown some potential to be a pretty cool horse as he moves up. He is not mine (well, not completely) he is owned by my husband and a friend. They are not trying to do any upper level stuff with him–just want to have fun. They are really enjoying him!
Slp, I love him! He reminds me of my old very old style Dutch gelding. I’ve always admired the DHH as well. Where did they find him?
They are currently still a popular cross with the half arabs and I agree that they tend to be upheaded with lots of leg action but not a lot of back movement. All the ones I’ve seen also seem to be on the hot side.
As joiedevie99 wrote, yes, I have one, who I’ve blogged and written about extensively. I wrote about him a few years ago on this thread - http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?263127-Riding-a-Dutch-Harness-Horse - and all that I said then remains true, though he did mature dramatically at age 9, and in the last few years I really would have put anyone on him.
He was quite a successful young Grand Prix horse before he got hurt, from which he has not recovered. I’m sure that his extravagant legs did not help his long-term soundness, though I’d also hazard a guess that asking him to use himself in a way that his ancestors were not asked to - hind legs more under and carrying than out behind and thrusting - was also certainly to blame for his soundness issues.
He’s out in the field, because I just couldn’t put any more money or any more heart into trying to fix him. I’ll bring him in next Spring and see if he’ll hold up, but I’m not holding my breath. It kills me. He was really incredibly special.
I’ve had lots of people come to me with whole and part Harness Horses because of my successes with Midge, and based on the others I’ve seen, he is certainly one of a kind. The others I’ve met have been just as hot but also longer-coupled, and not nearly as talented for the canter. None have been amateur-appropriate.
Here’s a video of one of Midge’s last Grand Prix tests. Still plenty of room for improvement, of course, but he was 11, still developing at the level. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9y16A_7TMY
Thank you all so much. A friend sent me a link to a facebook page called Amish Treasures where 3 DHH geldings are listed for sale. I particularly like the one called Curious George. He looked like a possibility. Here’s a video of him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1LOJn2J54A&feature=youtu.be
Sorry, no.
I just happened to see my first one today. It is at the barn of Frank Luetz who does combined driving. Why not post this question on that forum and perhaps he’ll have more information on the breed. It was a quite attractive horse.
[QUOTE=85union;7883079]
Thank you all so much. A friend sent me a link to a facebook page called Amish Treasures where 3 DHH geldings are listed for sale. I particularly like the one called Curious George. He looked like a possibility. Here’s a video of him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1LOJn2J54A&feature=youtu.be[/QUOTE]
I have to agree. I see a horse trotting and spooking, nothing, in spite of the suspension, that would remotely make me interested. If the horse is very close and you can see the canter, preferably while being ridden by someone who is a competent rider, it might be worthwhile to go see him. Don’t be fooled by a flashy trot and lots of suspension. You need much, much more than that.
What is it you like about the horse?
[QUOTE=85union;7883079]
Thank you all so much. A friend sent me a link to a facebook page called Amish Treasures where 3 DHH geldings are listed for sale. I particularly like the one called Curious George. He looked like a possibility. Here’s a video of him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1LOJn2J54A&feature=youtu.be[/QUOTE]
Exactly what others have said about DHH in general. He is L-O-N-G in the back. He moves out behind (his hind end is so far out behind him, it is almost in another county). There is no way this horse will ever be able to sit and carry enough to move in a correct dressage frame. You might be able to dazzle your friends and family and do some low level stuff with him, but it would be a constant uphill battle to get him past training level. He seems to have a fairly decent mind, to put up with that yokel riding him (despite the spooking - he looks pretty young and green), but I suspect he would find it really difficult to try to get his hindquarters underneath himself. That is when his true temperament would come out. This horse is neither bred for dressage, nor built for dressage. Why are you interested in him?
These are also Amish horses and he has been most likely driven fairly hard on the road, I wouldn’t buy him without an extensive PPE. He’s also very expensive for what he is.
