Speed Faul ttime?

[bizbachfan]

Hello, Newbie here, only competed Tadpole once. I understand that for training and below there is not just an optimum time on XC but also a speed fault time to encourage riders to not go too fast. Here is what I found in the rules but I am still not sure how the calculation works, if anyone can give me an example that would be great. For instance if for Tadpole the optimum time is 3 mins 48 seconds what is the speed fault time, or the time that you will be penalized for going to quickly? The starter did say don’t finish under 3 minutes so I guess that is the easiest way to find out but wondering if anyone can give me an example of how they calculate it. thanks!

Quote:“Speed Fault
For the Beginner Novice, Novice, and Training Levels, the distance divided by the speed fault speed gives the speed fault time. Completing the course in less than the optimum time is not penalized up to the speed fault time. Completing the course in less than the speed fault time will be penalized. Speed Faults encourage riders from completing cross-county too fast.”

[yellowbritches]

Reading this, it is going to depend on the speed for the level, if I understand correctly. But, I’ve always just assumed speed faults begin if you are more than a minute under time.

Also, most of the events I have been to that offer unrecognized levels (like "tadpole, baby BN, etc) don’t time them at all. In fact, around here, a lot of unrecognized horse trials don’t time any of the levels.

[CindyCRNA]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7593704]
Reading this, it is going to depend on the speed for the level, if I understand correctly. But, I’ve always just assumed speed faults begin if you are more than a minute under time.

Also, most of the events I have been to that offer unrecognized levels (like "tadpole, baby BN, etc) don’t time them at all. In fact, around here, a lot of unrecognized horse trials don’t time any of the levels.[/QUOTE]

My recognized HT last fall did not have a time on the starter division but my recognized starter a couple of weeks ago did (yes, we are starting BN finally!). OP glad you brought this up as now that we have moved up a level, I need to be cognoscente of time but didn’t know where the time fault started. So the time listed is always optimal time?

[EventerAJ]

Many years ago the “speeding ticket” rule was a flat minute under for novice, and 30 secs under for training. This doesn’t really account for differences in course length/OT… so you’d be going a LOT faster if you came in at 3min for a 4min OT course, compared to 4min for a 5min OT course.

So the rule changed so that the speed fault time is calculated by the speed of the next highest level. For example: Novice speed is 375mpm; distance 2000m. Optimum time is then 2000/375 = 5:20. Speed fault time would be 2000/450 (training speed) = 4:27. So you can see it’s not quite a “flat minute” under, it depends on the speed and distance.

Say for BN you have a course 1700m long and posted speed is 350mpm. Novice speed for this course is 400mpm. OT is 1700/350 = 4:52, speed fault time is 1700/400 = 4:15.

By setting adjusting the speed fault time to the next highest level, if ensures that competitors will be travelling at a safe average speed; competitors ready to move up can still “practice” at a faster pace, but excessive speed will be penalized.

[Janet]

[QUOTE=bizbachfan;7593694]
For instance if for Tadpole the optimum time is 3 mins 48 seconds what is the speed fault time, or the time that you will be penalized for going to quickly? [/QUOTE]

In order to calculate the “speed fault time” you need to know the DISTANCE of the course, not just the optimum time.

For instance, at Beginner Novice, the organizer has the choice of basing the optimum time in anything between 300 and 350 Meters per minute (mpm), but the speed fault time is based on 420 mpm.

Suppose the course is 1500 meters, and the organizer has selected 300 mpm as the optimum speed.

The optimum time is 1500 meters divided by 300 mpm.
1500/300 is 5 minutes, so the optimum time is 5 minutes (yes, I picked “easy” numbers)

The speed fault time is 1500 meters divided by 420 mpm.
1500/420 = 3.571… minutes
(REMEMBER this is NOT 3 minutes and 57 seconds, but 3 minutes and .571 of a minute)
60 x .571 = 34.26 seconds.

The rules say you always round up to the next whole second, so that is 35 seconds.

The speed fault time is thus 3 minutes and 35 seconds.

To calculate it for an unrecognized level like “tadpole”, you would need to know the distance, and know what speed THEY were using as the “speed fault speed”, since tadpole is not in the rule book.

Hope that helps.

[Janet]

@EventerAJ;7593829

So the rule changed so that the speed fault time is calculated by the speed of the next highest level.

Nope. NOT always the next highest level.

BN - Opt is 300mpm - 350mpm. Speed fault is 420 mpm (which is NOT Nov Opt)

N - Opt is 350 - 400 mpm. Speed fault is 450 mpm (which is within the rage for TR Opt)

Tr - Opt is 420 - 470 mpm. Speed fault is 520 (which IS Pelim Opt)

Say for BN you have a course 1700m long and posted speed is 350mpm. Novice speed for this course is 400mpm. OT is 1700/350 = 4:52, speed fault time is 1700/400 = 4:15.

Not correct.

As noted above, the speed fault speed for BN is 420 mpm, not 400 mpm.

1700/420 = 4:03 (4.0476… min), not 4:15.

[Janet]

[QUOTE=CindyCRNA;7593821]
My recognized HT last fall did not have a time on the starter division but my recognized starter a couple of weeks ago did (yes, we are starting BN finally!). OP glad you brought this up as now that we have moved up a level, I need to be cognoscente of time but didn’t know where the time fault started. So the time listed is always optimal time?[/QUOTE]

At a recognized HT, they are require to list
Distance in meters
Optimum speed
Optimum time
Speed fault speed
Speed fault time
Time Limit (2 x Opt Time).

They SHOULD be on the course map.

People have been known to make arithmetic errors, so it always pays to check and let them know if it is wrong.

[bizbachfan]

thanks guys, explains a lot. At Rocking horse schooling they do time tadpole. When I did it I did not realize I could go too fast. Good thing my pony was wobbly at the start because of the ATV following us or we might have been too fast LOL. But we had a tadpoler on Saturday who did get time speed faults so we learned for next time. Appreciate all the explanations.

[Hilary]

And this isn’t just because organizers and timers and scorers really like to do a lot of math - it is a safety issue. Jumping small fences at speed can be dangerous because the horse does not pay attention to the fence. Small jumps should be jumped from a trot or slow canter. Putting a speed fault time in helps make sure people don’t just race around but begin to learn pace when they are learning the sport.

[bizbachfan]

I definitely get the logic. I was jump judging Training and saw in person what happens when you go too fast and not in control.