I don’t want to risk unconventional bit possibility.
Really interesting. Can’t say I’ve seen that set up but I like it!
If the gag works really well for you, is there a chance that warming up with a gag rein on your snaffle would work, then slipping it off to go into the ring without him really noticing? I think it might have been Anne Kursinski who used this set up? Put on your snaffle bridle as usual, then put a set of reins through your snaffle ring and up over the top of his head to give you gag action. To remove before walking in to show, just disconnect the gag rein and slide it out. I think there’s a “proper” version of this that you can buy, but putting a set of rings on a bradoon hanger so they’re up on the horse’s cheek, then connecting the reins to that same ring after running them through the snaffle achieves the same thing. Just make sure the rings are high enough to not get caught, or alternatively, use an over-the-crown piece long enough to hang well out of the snaffle rings and connect shorter reins to it. Best of luck!
Yeahbutt you could use some of these for just schooling at home or warming up at the show…swap to another before going into the ring…I did that all the time. Did my hack in something with a little more lift, did transitions and extend/collects in it to get her listening and backed off a little., Went back to put coat, tall boots on me and the full cheek slow twist or that Mylar Comfort snaffle on horse, jumped a few then went into the show ring.
Also found it good to be prepared to swap up for the second day of a show. Once in awhile between trips on the same day. Horse changes as they tire, change with them instead of letting them learn you will hold up their front.
You could try it anyway, don’t have to be drastic changes either, just a little bit of different feel keeps them more interested, add a different pressure point, like curb or gag, if he needs a reminder.
Did you get a chance to try the Mikmar? We left the show but I may be able to run it out to you if you’d like.
I’d also give the Dr. Bristol a try - I used that on my old A/O horse for awhile and it really helped. Then we switched to a slow twist dog bone Shuttleworth thing in sweet iron that I really liked (someone will have to pry that bit from my cold dead fingers), I’ve had good luck with the Shuttleworth sweet iron slow twists in general - used several iterations of them on different horses with good success.
Another idea - PJP started making fatter versions of the original bit, both slow twist (smoother than the JKS type) and regular. Might be worth a try?
Tom at the horse show (the Antares guy) will let you try the expensive bits before you buy them - maybe swing by and see what he has?
What about a Myler with a curved mouthpiece (with no hooks)?
http://www.doversaddlery.com/myler-comfort-snaffle-dee/p/X1-01383/
slow twist was always my go to in that situation (for me it was day two of a horse show when he was still young, learning his job and just tuckered out from all the showing - he preferred that I carry him around the turns instead of the other way around). This was a horse that ended up in a happy mouth mullen mouth by the next season and stayed there for the rest of his career.
My experience has not been that the slow twist was same/more severe than the corkscrew, but as usual, YMMV
Thats what mine is. Very conventional dee sides, no joints to rattle or distract and tongue relief but giving a little lift. Too bad if this is the bit OPs horse hates.
I just use a cheltenham gag with two reins for horses that like to dig a hole to the base of the fence, a direct rein and gag rein. Then just use leather or rope gag cheeks depending on how immediate you want the gag effect to be (rope cheeks tend to slide up hard and fast with minimal effort, the rolled leather is slower/more dampened)
http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=285
(hah, read their description of it’s intended effect and it was almost verbatim the above - just proves this ain’t rocket science LOL)
and in use
Man, you own a lot of bits Nick! 
Has anyone tried the Mikmar Dee for a situation like this? I just ordered one for a trial before I decide to purchase.
My TB gelding is a lot like the OPs; he’s big, long and hard to get connected, likes to travel on his forehand instead of pushing from behind and will lean on me. If I “drop” him, he just travels even more downhill despite the seat/leg/spur/stick. I have no brakes in a Waterford because he just curls behind it and he can get strong if we jump in just a regular 3 piece snaffle. Im going to try him in a broken port bit that I have until the Mikmar arrives but it looked like it might be promising from testimonials and reviews online.
I’ve only ridden in a Mikmar pelham on a friend’s horse, and it was a LOT of bit. I think even without a curb element, it’s a lot of bit. With the roller piece, it would not be my choice for the OP’s horse who plays with a lot of the bits she has tried. Also, OP’s horse doesn’t seem to like much of a port action.
That said, I tend to be a less is more kind of bit person. However, I like a big, long, low horse and understand that in babyhood they need some help in figuring out self carriage. Getting into a leaning tug of war match doesn’t teach them anything except to keep on leaning. But, for a horse with a sensitive mouth and a lot of big boy baby leaning, I try to find the simplest mouthpiece I can get with enough lift to actually get a response to the half halt cue so that you can actually teach them what a half halt is. A Mikmar is a lot of hardware in the mouth versus using some poll pressure or curb action to get lift. The difficulty is in NOT teaching the sensitive-mouthed horse to get behind the contact (at which point you are no longer in a leaning tug of war you are just leaving out strides with no half halt at all), while also using something that gives you some semblance of control.
Some of it is going to be trial and error, and if you can borrow bits from someone that will be key unless you want to end up with several additions to you bit box.
But I have a baby horse and she would lean as well. She is about 85% there now. I have a mare that is very particular about things, so i knew if it was going to work or not with in the 1st few minutes lol.
But here are a list of bits that usually help with leaning:
- Copper roller mouth
- Waterford mouth
- Cherry rollers
- Copper Dr. Bristol with Slow Twist
- Single Cooper Roller Full Cheek Snaffle
- Corkscrew
I tend to stay away from the gag bits since you can’t show in them if you have a hunter, and i think my mare has a tendency to get balled up/over-bent in them.
I’d always wanted to try a Mikmar but never had a horse that seemed like a good fit until now. My jumper is BIG and opinionated and came to us after being in a field for almost a year, so out of shape. He is getting better as he gets more fit, but his biggest issue is he gets tired while working to keep his various large parts together and ends up leaning and on his forehand and with bad brakes. He also came to us as a 10 y/o with wolf teeth and it looked like it had been years since he’d seen any dental work, so even though those teeth have gone bye bye, he still is a little sensitive about his mouth and likes to make that known with head flinging.
The first thing I noticed about the Mikmar D on him is he was immediately less head flingy (that’s the technical term) and more willing to engage with the bit. Rather than try and lean on it to evade contact, we could actually have a working dialog, and he started out immediately more willing to lift through his shoulder and poll. I can also jump him in it and not leave out strides and actually get him to add up at the base, something we had trouble getting in a variety of leverage bits. I need more bit to show him, though (he goes in one of those Pessoa magic pelhams at shows - which, again, looks way more severe than it feels in his mouth).
Honestly, if it was as severe as it looks, this horse would throw a hissy fit because he is the most sensitive snowflake about his mouth. Instead, he is drooly and happy. Love it - looking in to getting a pelham to add to the rotation (broken mouth)
Things we have tried, for reference:
- fat loose ring (HA - no brakes, head flingy)
- French link snaffle (see above)
- Myler level 1 dee (even more head flingy)
- Waterford dee (less head flingy for about two weeks, then figured it out, barely any brakes)
- Waterford three ring (no brakes, still head flingy)
- Happy Mouth french link three ring (better with head, no brakes)
- Happy Mouth mullen hackabit (better brakes and contact, ok with head)
- Happy Mouth single jointed pelham (head flinging better, medium brakes)
- French link gag (great with head… unless you want to jump, then naahh - this is one of our flatwork bits)
I have seen this set up, but for the life of me couldn’t figure out what kind of rein they’re using over the head. Regular reins are too short and draw reins are too long…help??
Also found it good to be prepared to swap up for the second day of a show. Once in awhile between trips on the same day. Horse changes as they tire, change with them instead of letting them learn you will hold up their front.
You could try it anyway, don’t have to be drastic changes either, just a little bit of different feel keeps them more interested, add a different pressure point, like curb or gag, if he needs a reminder.
I am a big bit switcher too, especially hack to jumping. I typically hack in something, jump school in something else, and show hack in a third and show jump in a fourth. I also am known to switch my bridles between rounds even. Right now with this horse I’d just love to find something that works and have that as an option.
Did you get a chance to try the Mikmar? We left the show but I may be able to run it out to you if you’d like.
I’d also give the Dr. Bristol a try - I used that on my old A/O horse for awhile and it really helped. Then we switched to a slow twist dog bone Shuttleworth thing in sweet iron that I really liked (someone will have to pry that bit from my cold dead fingers), I’ve had good luck with the Shuttleworth sweet iron slow twists in general - used several iterations of them on different horses with good success.
Another idea - PJP started making fatter versions of the original bit, both slow twist (smoother than the JKS type) and regular. Might be worth a try?
The myler I tried was one of Tom’s. Since that port was such a disaster, I decided the mikmar would be out. Plus he tires easily so trying at a show isn’t my best move. Tom didn’t have the PJP thick mouth pieces. QH did, but no bit trials.
What about a Myler with a curved mouthpiece (with no hooks)?
This is the MB02 that was previously suggested. I own one (and an MB01), but wrote it off as way too soft. That’s what I ride my gray horse in who is the slowest creature God ever created I swear. He was meant to do peanut rolling WP some days. I’m willing to give it a try though, I own it why not.
slow twist was always my go to in that situation (for me it was day two of a horse show when he was still young, learning his job and just tuckered out from all the showing - he preferred that I carry him around the turns instead of the other way around). This was a horse that ended up in a happy mouth mullen mouth by the next season and stayed there for the rest of his career.
My experience has not been that the slow twist was same/more severe than the corkscrew, but as usual, YMMV
I think it may be my slow twist v my corkscrew. My corkscrew is not sharp, just ridgy. I have a slow twist d and full cheek. I think that will be my next try given the numerous suggestions here.
I just use a cheltenham gag with two reins for horses that like to dig a hole to the base of the fence, a direct rein and gag rein. Then just use leather or rope gag cheeks depending on how immediate you want the gag effect to be (rope cheeks tend to slide up hard and fast with minimal effort, the rolled leather is slower/more dampened)[/quote}
#TIL that my gag is a cheltenham gag. This is the exact set up that works so beautifully for him. Rope cheeks that are thick and have a slow gag action. I have some zippier thin rope cheeks that he detested.
[quote]Man, you own a lot of bits Nick!
A bit and a spur for every horse! Or in my case 4 bits and two spurs for every horse! I actually had 50+ bits stolen a few years ago. I’m down to probably 75 or so. I’ve also owned a ton of horses with a ton of different needs.
I’ve only ridden in a Mikmar pelham on a friend’s horse, and it was a LOT of bit. I think even without a curb element, it’s a lot of bit. With the roller piece, it would not be my choice for the OP’s horse who plays with a lot of the bits she has tried. Also, OP’s horse doesn’t seem to like much of a port action.
That said, I tend to be a less is more kind of bit person. However, I like a big, long, low horse and understand that in babyhood they need some help in figuring out self carriage. Getting into a leaning tug of war match doesn’t teach them anything except to keep on leaning. But, for a horse with a sensitive mouth and a lot of big boy baby leaning, I try to find the simplest mouthpiece I can get with enough lift to actually get a response to the half halt cue so that you can actually teach them what a half halt is. A Mikmar is a lot of hardware in the mouth versus using some poll pressure or curb action to get lift. The difficulty is in NOT teaching the sensitive-mouthed horse to get behind the contact (at which point you are no longer in a leaning tug of war you are just leaving out strides with no half halt at all), while also using something that gives you some semblance of control.
BINGO!!!
- Copper roller mouth
- Waterford mouth
- Cherry rollers
- Copper Dr. Bristol with Slow Twist
- Single Cooper Roller Full Cheek Snaffle
- Corkscrew
I have all of these except the dr. bristol slow twist. Yes trial and error, I’ve got a list, but I really don’t mind buying <50 dollar bits to try…it’s the 400 ones that I’m not going to just give a go.
I agree about the big baby learning curve. I’ve had my boy 2 1/2 years and have finally found a trainer that is amazing and she is helping us significantly improve our flatwork and fill in a lot of holes that we have. We’ve been working on a lot of things to improve his balance and connection; he has come a long way from his first ride to today, but he STILL gets heavy and quick when we jump. He’s strong and I’m small and my back will ache for days after a jump school sometimes. If I bit up in an attempt to regain some control, he will curl behind the contact and I can’t seem to get him effectively back in front of my leg. If I pull on him, he obviously pulls back and goes even faster (OTTB). I’ve heard that the Mikmar snaffles are pretty mild bits. I worry that with a Pelham or any sort of curb action that he will drop behind the bit even more.
As as a junior I rode one of my trainer’s horses in a Mikmar combination and I agree, that was a LOT of bit between the curb action and the poll pressure. I’m hoping that the snaffle is a happy medium between the combination and a typical snaffle.
Jhg140 - Thank you so much for your input, very helpful and giving me some hope that this might work for my boy!
For my horse with a soft mouth that leans I use a full cheek with lozenge to flat. For showing I move up to a full cheek slow twist. I also have a full cheek corkscrew.
Nick, I have a copper full cheek slow twist Dr Bristol I’d be willing to give to you if you want…I would just have to measure it to make sure it’s big enough. I wound up using a custom Myler version with a different type of twist for the horse it was for. I’ve lost a lot of my good bits over the years (aka others helped themselves while I was out of horses), but full cheeks…I’ve got at last count 6 full cheek snaffles. And pretty much none of my older bits fit my current guy who is no longer a 5" mouth. I just may come back to you when I am looking for a different bit after my horse starts jumping bigger / jumping more off property and the half halt I painstakingly installed goes back out the window. 
I’ve found in recent years that I love my happy mouth 2 ring gag on a sensitive OTTB, with 2 reins for schooling. The second rein nips the lean on the hand and go faster tendency, but you don’t get a lot of evasion typically off of a happy mouth loose ring, which is the contact you’d have most of the time. Or, if you go with a pelham, this is where I’d try a rubber pelham or happy mouth first, with a chain that isn’t adjusted all that tightly. If those cause curling, the standby slow twist full cheek is always there ;).
I love a Beris bit - I order them from UK - cant chew through them - they have a soft and a medium- I have both
