Spin off: bit for horse with soft mouth that gets heavy and leans.

[Nickelodian]

I have a young horse with a very very soft mouth. However. He is big and when he gets off balance or nervous, he falls on his forehand and can lean with his whole self.

Yes I know he needs flat work. Yes I know he needs to learn to carry himself. He doesn’t go fast. Just gets heavy.

I school him in a two rein gag with a thick rope (slow gag action). He goes beautifully in this set up. I can keep him up, no fighting issues, soft and lovely.

I am currently doing him in the hunters, so of course the gag is out. Thoughts on bits I might try?

Things I have tried:

Waterford d - goes Ok, still gets low.
Corkscrew full cheek - better than Waterford for the lean, some light fight when I really have to compress his step.
Short shank mullen mouth rubber pelham - flips his head when the chain hits
Plain Rubber Snaffle - oddly not bad but leans
French Link - plays with the bit
Narrow French link - chomp chomp chomp
Broken segunda - worked great for the lean. couldn’t touch his mouth though.
loose ring oval mouth (football bit) - heavy
myler wide port - head toss city
pletcher figure 8 - lean not bad. Still busy with his mouth

So in conclusion he likes plain bits, but I can’t keep him up.

Any brilliant ideas to try? He’s smart. This problem won’t be forever, but he’s big and I’m small.

[HJdaydream]

Wow! I could have written this exact post. I am in the same boat. I will follow this thread eagerly to see what people recommend.

[vxf111]

I used a pessoa magic bit with roller balls and it was the perfect happy medium. I think they’re discontinued though

[btswass]

Neue schule verbindend. A very light bit available in a variety of cheeks (loose ring, d, full cheek, etc). Works unbelievably well for a horse heavy on the forehand. I flat in it but right now need a little more for jumping but have had tremendous success with it. A total game changer for us

[Peggy]

Have you tried that Stubben EZ bit that locks? I found it pretty helpful when rehabbing a horse that had managed to break himself when he was barely broke. He leaned down and got quick and this seemed to help. He eventually became more balanced and it was a bit too much bit and I went to something else.

Another thing to try is this sweet iron loose-ring Myler. (at least I think that’s the one I have) My current horse pulls down a bit. He was going in a double-jointed wonder bit when I got him. He was doing jumpers. We switched him over to the same mouthpiece in a loose-ring which was great at home but afforded no brakes at his first show, so they grabbed something from the bit box with a bit of a port. I did not show that weekend due to a family health crisis, so never rode in that bit. But started riding in a slightly curved Mylar (might be this one – can’t tell if this one has a curve to it). Neither the trainer nor I are loving that bit at the moment. I flat the horse in the double jointed loose ring but we aren’t going there for jumping. Trainer tried a mild slow twist full-check which she liked, but was too much bit the next day for me. So I pulled out the loose-ring Myler. One jump school and two hacks later, and so far so good.

[ToTheNines]

I had a heavy horse once, and same thing, hunter gag was good for schooling. For showing, pelham made him light (too light for that horse). But for yours, how about a leather curb “chain”. I see them all the time. Oil it nice and soft, or put something over it.

On that horse, I liked Myler with hooks, but too obvious for showing, and don’t like risking “unconventional” bit problem.

Also, on your french link, be sure it isn’t a Dr Bristol. I have a French link slow twist hunter D that I love. $30 bit from Schneider’s Tack. Also, on your French links, be sure bit is not too wide. I like mine without too much “v” across the tongue. So it is not jangly in there.

[findeight]

Something out there called a " polo mouth" it’s a Mullen but the mouthpiece is flattened, not round. Hard to describe and probably has another name(s), seen it with a dee side and as a regular length Pelham, fussy horses that like minimal bits seem to like it…,don’t let the pelham scare you. Actually some horses like the curb, must give them security or something, certainly help with the heaviness. Think we dismiss curbs too quickly alot of the time. They don’t have to be rubber mouthed and short shanked…and I have had head tossing with the short shanked, rubber mouthed Pelham on horses that happily carried the regular length and unjointed mouth ones. Go figure…but if we could figure it out we’d shut down a huge marketing machine.

[fordtraktor]

I mentioned the w mouth on the other thread but thought of another one to try…a rubber jointed short shank Pelham. They are milder than a Mullen actually. People will say they are terrible because they don’t Have the leverage you would think, but I find it to be a nice “in between”. I also have an ovation gel cover for the curb chain my horse seems to find comfy. He doesn’t care for a plain chain either. Leather would be good too but i sometimes have trouble finding nice leather curb straps. You can also wrap in a fair amount of black vetwrap to make a discreet cushion but the gel is really nice. Also, this option is cheap so you are out $25 instead of a lot more if it doesn’t work.

My little horse has a lovely mouth when he is being good but when he has been out of work or I take him somewhere, He is prone to forgetting himself a bit. I something like this on him…brakes there if I need them but still a soft feel you can keep light contact on (with the snaffle rein). Since your horse liked the rubber snaffle this might be a good “little bit more” for him.

[findeight]

@fordtraktor

I mentioned the w mouth on the other thread but thought of another one to try…a rubber jointed shirt shank Pelham. They are milder than a Mullen actually. People will say they are terrible because they don’t work, but I find it to be a nice “in between”. I also have an ovation gel cover for the curb chain my horse seems to find comfy. He doesn’t care for a plain chain either. Leather would be good too but i sometimes have trouble finding nice leather curb straps. You can also wrap in a fair amount of black vetwrap to make a discreet cushion but the gel is really nice.

Good point, sometimes it’s not the curb pressure itself but the motion and noise the chain makes that get that head flip going…like a baby with rattle on some horses. Cover it up or use a leather curb strap. And, again, try a longer shank on the Pelham, between the chain and reins there’s a lot going on right against the lips in just a few inches on those TTs.

[EmilyM]

what about a slow twist?

[GrayTBJumper]

My jumper mare used to pull down, lean on her inside shoulder, and drag me to the fences. The tom thumb broken pelham was too much; she would tuck her nose. She would flip her head around in a corkscrew and slow twist. I rode her in a JP Korsteel Jointed Port Hunter Dee Ring for a few months: https://www.jefferspet.com/products/jp-korsteel-jointed-port-hunter-dee-snaffle-bit-size-5-mouth

It was still very soft but when I picked up my hands, gave me the lift to pick her up off her shoulders.

[iridehorses]

I have a slow twist copper D that helps my horse that leans greatly!! I do only use it for showing in the hunters, so I try to keep a very light hand with it, and when I use it he lifts right off! Works like a charm for my horse at least

[One_Two_Three]

I know you mentioned a large port myler. How about the Myler level 2 comfort Dee? This has been the magic bit for my OTTB who is heavy but doesn’t necessarily need a harsh bit. It keeps him from being able to really grab and drag on it, and this is the first bit he hasn’t ground his teeth on constantly. The one with the hooks and spot for a curb chain offers some extra options. For instance, my guy started out in the myler with the reins through the hooks, and NO curb. This worked great on him. We have ramped up our training, and he really likes the curb pressure, so we added a curb chain with gel guard. He goes wonderful in it. I LOVE this bit. The Myler Comfort level 2 is very mild, a very very very small curve (I wouldn’t even call it a port) which spins. LOVE LOVE LOVE. My horse has never been happier, and I couldn’t be happier with the bit. Just a thought

[Nickelodian]

IPEsq - I have a full cheek slow twist. It’s free, can’t hurt to try. I have a non broken segunda too, but man I have had bad luck with that bit. I have a french link pelham and a regular snaffle pelham, both tom thumb. The skinny french link that I own is a level 1 myler. I also have a wide barrel D (MB02) and narrow (MB01), but I wrote them both off as too soft to lift.

How about I just post a picture of my entire bit collection, we can play pick a bit, and then I can give feedback?? :D:lol:

[findeight]

Hey, I have a full cheek slow twist and it did work well on HRH when she wanted to lean. For about 3 days. I switched things up with her anyway, rotated the slow twist with a Mylar Comfort snaffle, unjointed with low port your horse hates ( she liked it though). Sometimes used a custom blued steel loose ring with a narrow, copper laced mouth, made for Reiners, hung a little low so she had to pick it up and hold it, that was actually a really good bit on that horse for hacking out.

Throw in a gag snaffle (only used one rein, so shoot me), a three ring on the middle ring (and only one rein but both these I only flated in) and an elevator (two reins). But she was older and finished, just the Queen of Evasion. Young one I’d treat differently but keeping them guessing is never a bad thing, IMO, to keep them honest and their responses sharp. Don’t give them time to figure out how to evade them,

[IPEsq]

Try the MB02, regular snaffle pelham, full cheek slow twist (no particular order), and if all of those fail, go with longer shank pelham and/or non-broken segunda.

I really like a pelham on ones that tend to do well with gags, but if they don’t tolerate the chain, I tend to go with slow twist first, Myler second, and then the segunda over a different type of port for the really really heavy. A slow twist bristol would probably be the last on my list…a few horses love it, but most don’t. Another one to consider for a fussy mouth might be something like the novocontact mouthpiece. But it’s kind of spendy.

[Peggy]

For schooling you can also use a gag snaffle with small rings as a second bit. So you’d end up with two reins.

[Nickelodian]

@Peggy

For schooling you can also use a gag snaffle with small rings as a second bit. So you’d end up with two reins.

Not sure I’m following this one. Pic?

[Peggy]

@Nickelodian

Not sure I’m following this one. Pic?

Can’t find a photo of one in use, but here’s a photo of the thing itself and a description: https://www.equusport.com/product/gag-bradoon-complete
So you put the gag bradoon piece (bit hanger, bit, and reins) on first and then the regular snaffle. Sort of like a double bridle but you have a snaffle plus a gag snaffle, each with its own rein. Then you ride off the regular snaffle, reserving the gag for only when needed.

[Ceylon_Star]

What about a dee ring with slots/hooks, sometimes called a hunter gag?