In my area the pet population is getting out of control but at least the people who are taking in these animals are getting them fixed. The humane society has been booked solid for months and starting Oct 3rd, they will have new appointments available starting in Nov. They also have been spreading the word that they will fix pits and pit crosses for free too.
Their program is working but they still have a long way to go.
[QUOTE=jetsmom;8322099]
I’d like to see laws passed that any dog picked up as a stray by animal control is automatically chipped, vaccinated and spayed/neutered before being returned to owner or adopted out to anyone.[QUOTE]
I spoke with an animal shelter that had a 3-strike rule. First time your intact dog is picked up running loose, you get a fine. Second time, a heftier fine. Third time, biggest fine, AND your dog is spayed/neutered before being returned to you.
[QUOTE=RPM;8322097]
Houndhill, are you talking about all Scandinavia, or each country individually? I just read this in a 2011 online article:
I haven’t seen anything yet about Sweden, Denmark, Finland, or Iceland. But this 2011 article goes on to quote a Norwegian veterinarian who went to vet school in the US. She sees a lot of bite wounds in dogs in her practice in Norway, more than she saw in the US, and she thinks the reason is the stress of being an intact male dog surrounded by other intact males as well as females in heat. She also cites other health problems in unspayed female dogs. According to the article, most of Norway’s veterinarians want the law changed to allow spaying and neutering. The article is here:
http://sciencenordic.com/should-dogs-be-neutered[/QUOTE]
That was an interesting article, RPM, thanks for posting it.
I don’t know whether S/N is prohibited in the same way in Sweden, but I know it is also relatively rarely performed there, and the same is true for Finland.
I have attended presentations on veterinary issues in Sweden, and actually have the CDs from Agria, the largest pet insurance company in Sweden (most dogs have health insurance in Sweden) on reasons for veterinary treatment. I didn’t notice a high rate of traumatic or bite-wound injuries.
It is interesting that in these countries where s/n is rare, they have no dog overpopulation problems.
It is interesting that in these countries where s/n is rare, they have no dog overpopulation problems.
It fits with my theory that the biggest factor in overpopulation of pet quality dogs is deliberate breeding, not the random mating of an uneutered dog. The myriad ads I see on CL selling puppies (excuse me, "rehoming " them for $300), majority of ads are from sellers with litters bred to be sold.
Also depends how responsible owners are…if they are responsible in Sweden and keep their not neutured and unspayed dogs on leash or behind secure fences little to no chance they will breed.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8322505]
It is interesting that in these countries where s/n is rare, they have no dog overpopulation problems.
It fits with my theory that the biggest factor in overpopulation of pet quality dogs is deliberate breeding, not the random mating of an uneutered dog. The myriad ads I see on CL selling puppies (excuse me, "rehoming " them for $300), majority of ads are from sellers with litters bred to be sold.
Also depends how responsible owners are…if they are responsible in Sweden and keep their not neutured and unspayed dogs on leash or behind secure fences little to no chance they will breed.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I believe in Scandinavia dog owners do tend to be more responsible than in the US, and confine and supervise their dogs.
That is an interesting perspective- is there any data on the sources for all the “overpopulation” dogs in the US? Some seem to believe it is unneutered and poorly confined pets, and others have suggested it is overbreeding of puppy mill and other irresponsibly, but purposefully bred dogs.
Surely there is some data to suggest where all these shelter dogs are coming from?
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8322505]
It is interesting that in these countries where s/n is rare, they have no dog overpopulation problems.
It fits with my theory that the biggest factor in overpopulation of pet quality dogs is deliberate breeding, not the random mating of an uneutered dog. The myriad ads I see on CL selling puppies (excuse me, "rehoming " them for $300), majority of ads are from sellers with litters bred to be sold.
Also depends how responsible owners are…if they are responsible in Sweden and keep their not neutured and unspayed dogs on leash or behind secure fences little to no chance they will breed.[/QUOTE]
But, to add, if the source for the overpopulation is in some sense puppy mill bred or irresponsibly bred dogs…it seems they have been purchased or acquired somehow…and then there is an owner-failure issue, the new owners must be abandoning or relinquishing these dogs, rather than being responsible owners.
[QUOTE=Houndhill;8322588]
But, to add, if the source for the overpopulation is in some sense puppy mill bred or irresponsibly bred dogs…it seems they have been purchased or acquired somehow…and then there is an owner-failure issue, the new owners must be abandoning or relinquishing these dogs, rather than being responsible owners.[/QUOTE]
Right, but isn’t an irresponsible owner more likely to occur with a spur of the moment purchase? Those who buy from responsible breeders (who take their dogs back if necessary), almost always have to wait for a puppy.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;8322628]
Right, but isn’t an irresponsible owner more likely to occur with a spur of the moment purchase? Those who buy from responsible breeders (who take their dogs back if necessary), almost always have to wait for a puppy.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I am sure you are right about that.
So, how do we help dog owners to be more responsible?
Surely, enforcement of existing leash laws is part of this, but we do need to intervene with school-age children, it seems to me, in teaching them what it means to be a responsible owner.
And, we do need to educate adults who acquire dogs how do do so responsibly.
I think a waiting period for litters would clean a lot of this up. Along with licensing breeders, how about this…require ALL of them to adopt the model that the responsible breeders use ( buyers sign up to reserve a puppy pre birth and put a deposit down). And a breeder could not breed their dog until they have a minimum of three deposits ( they can refund the deposits to buyers if not enough puppies are born)
This would ensure breeders only breed when there is proven demand for a litter ( the puppy mills and casual by breeders would hate it). And people could no longer just expect that litters of puppies are everywhere and all they need to do is wake up one day and get a puppy…they actually have to plan, put a deposit down and wait for it to be born.
Of course there would be unplanned breeding and people sneaking in side litters so compliance would not be 100%, but enact a series of fines and loss of licene for repeated non compliance and it could work.
Or course that assumes some funds for enforcement which could come from licenses and a small fee on acquiring puppies among other sources. It would be cheaper in the long run than running shelters, AC control having to constantly round up dogs etc.
Well, I have never taken a deposit for a puppy, because I cannot ever promise anyone there would be a puppy that would be suitable.
A friend of mine bought a puppy from a labradordoodle breeder…she had to put down a deposit to reserve it and the breeder chose the puppy for her
Yes, some breeders do take deposits, others do not.
I would never do so.
You know, I think these puppies are bought, but may be then discarded…I don’t think these breeders are discarding puppies.
So we may need to focus efforts on educating people to buy dogs from health tested parents, socialized puppies, and then on efforts to help them retain these puppies as they become bothersome dogs, needing training, confinement, supervision, etc.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8322774]
A friend of mine bought a puppy from a labradordoodle breeder…she had to put down a deposit to reserve it and the breeder chose the puppy for her[/QUOTE]
Did you rip her a new one, like you did Swor?
I mean, she IS supporting the kind of breeder who produces for the pet market…the greeder…
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8322758]
I think a waiting period for litters would clean a lot of this up. Along with licensing breeders, how about this…require ALL of them to adopt the model that the responsible breeders use ( buyers sign up to reserve a puppy pre birth and put a deposit down). And a breeder could not breed their dog until they have a minimum of three deposits ( they can refund the deposits to buyers if not enough puppies are born)
This would ensure breeders only breed when there is proven demand for a litter ( the puppy mills and casual by breeders would hate it). And people could no longer just expect that litters of puppies are everywhere and all they need to do is wake up one day and get a puppy…they actually have to plan, put a deposit down and wait for it to be born.
Of course there would be unplanned breeding and people sneaking in side litters so compliance would not be 100%, but enact a series of fines and loss of licene for repeated non compliance and it could work.
Or course that assumes some funds for enforcement which could come from licenses and a small fee on acquiring puppies among other sources. It would be cheaper in the long run than running shelters, AC control having to constantly round up dogs etc.[/QUOTE]
I must say, all the breeders I know, including myself, do not take deposits.
Why would we?
I dont generally sell a puppy to anyone I’ve known less than twenty years.
The deposit thing, I just don’t get.
[QUOTE=RHdobes563;8322310]
[QUOTE=jetsmom;8322099]I’d like to see laws passed that any dog picked up as a stray by animal control is automatically chipped, vaccinated and spayed/neutered before being returned to owner or adopted out to anyone./QUOTE]
I spoke with an animal shelter that had a 3-strike rule. First time your intact dog is picked up running loose, you get a fine. Second time, a heftier fine. Third time, biggest fine, AND your dog is spayed/neutered before being returned to you.[/QUOTE]
I worked for a well-regarded no-kill shelter years ago. We got in a drop-dead gorgeous male dog that if I was guessing, I would say was a collie/husky mix. He really was very pretty and also friendly, a really neat dog. He was intact, and after the required holding period for his owner to claim him, we had him fixed and placed up for adoption as he was now considered a stray.
Well an owner turned up a couple of weeks later and she appeared happy to have found him…until she found out we neutered him. She was not happy and left him with us because she planned to breed him! To what, I have no clue. He was pretty, but he was not purebred anything and definitely did not need to reproduce. We were stunned she just dumped him like that. He was eventually adopted and I hope his new home appreciated him much more than she did.
We also got in several purebred litters, sometimes with their parents, during my time there. Off the top of my head I can remember a mama Chihuahua and her two tiny pups, a litter of 6 of GSDs, and an entire Golden Retriever family complete with mother AND father. I wish there would be some kind of regulations on breeding because at least in my area, this kind of thoughtless breeding is common (and sad for the animals involved).
So, did the original owner of this dog relinquish her ownership, or what? Or I get it, she no longer wanted him as he had been neutered?
That is really bizarre!
And the chi and Golden “families” who would want them, knowing no health testing was done on the parents?
People wanting to adopt “rescues”…
If people were educated about what to look for in puppies, and if breeders of quality puppies were not demonized , people would have better quality dogs.
I do not have a problem with purebred dogs and I’m increasingly coming to believe that breeding REAL pet-quality dogs (as opposed to calling anything that can’t win in the conformation ring pet-quality) is also fine. But the “responsible breeder” community is not blameless in the reality that dogs are still being euthanized for being homeless and unwanted. The AKC and ‘good breeders’ fight tooth and nail against every single law that would restrict the rights of breeders in any way. They oppose the only thing that can realistically end the horrendous mass breeding and slaughter of the pit bulls, breed-specific legislation. They loathe coercive and mandatory spay/neuter, which has had a huge positive effect in the Northeast in breeds other than the pit bulls. They crawled into bed with the puppy mills and the large-scale commercial breeders to oppose regulation and restriction on breeding. And this is NOT just the AKC-as-registry, this is the breed clubs. As regards their breed and their dogs, they may be honorable. As regards society and dogs as a whole, they have a lot to answer for.
[QUOTE=jetsmom;8322099]
I’d like to see laws passed that any dog picked up as a stray by animal control is automatically chipped, vaccinated and spayed/neutered before being returned to owner or adopted out to anyone. If owner claims it, then they must pay for all NJ of the above to get it back. I don’t care why it was loose/ stray. If it is intact, it could have been bred and produced unwanted puppies. And if it was loose, even if it was an “accident” then they have proven they cannot guarantee the dog will not get out unsupervised and breed.
I’d also like to see money paid in registration fees to have enforcement for litter licenses and permits to have litters. Our FL is full of ads from backyard breeders that breed numerous breeds and litters per yr. We kill over 25000 pets a year at our animal services shelter. We have a law r3quiring litter licenses and breeding permits but no money for enforcement.[/QUOTE]
That seems to me a bit draconian.
Anyone can have a dog gt loose accidentally. A tree can knock a fence down, lots of things can happen accidentally.
It happened to me. Several years ago, we went out of town, and had a new highly recommended animal care person.
We will never know what happened, whether a gate was left opened or what. But my beloved champion Irish Wolfhound was gone, escaped somehow.
The next two weeks, all we did was search for Tulip, 24/7. Like many sighthounds, she had gone feral- they become unresponsive to even their owner, it is kind of like PTSD. I hired a private plane, a tracking dog, we were constantly aware of sightings. She was gone for two weeks, evidently hunting deer. I was camped with her aunt one night in our Yukon, when I felt it shake, and Tulip was there!0
I tell you this, because though I know Animal Control could not possibly have gotten thir hands on her, I would have been very distressed if they had taken it upon themselves to spay her (she was microchipped) as a sighthound there are considerations… She was bred, produced several champion offspring. What if the spay had predisposed her to osteosarcoma, or had risked her life with the anesthesa, and had deprived her of her champion offsprpring, and of the line going forward?
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