Spin-off: Hindgut ulcers?

[mvp]

Loved the Nexium (esomeprazole) thread. But! All of that has to do with stomach ulcers. Could we please have the equivalent discussion for hind gut ulcers?

You can’t scope there. As I understand it, sulfacrate (a prescription drug) is the treatment, but I don’t know more than that.

And then there are (or are not?) various feeding options? Pre-/Pro-biotics? Aloe Vera juice, Buffering feeds like Purina’s Outlast? Or are these all for stomach ulcers only?

Clear symptoms of hind gut ulcer problems as opposed to stomach ulcers?

I don’t have great vets where I am, so I’m not going there first. (Well, I actually went there first and couldn’t get much information or a promised e-mail about a treatment plan, so I’m not “going back to the hardware store to buy milk,” if you know what I mean.) . And this is my first horse that might have ulcer issues, so I’m kind of a babe in the woods. I’m pretty sure I have found the source of my mare’s problems in stomach ulcers and I’m in the process of treating those, as well as trying to figure out a long-term management plan for those. To be thorough, I’m trying to develop the same skill with hindgut ulcers.

Thanks!

[Dr_Doolittle]

IME, hindgut ulcers can have a few additional symptoms - but some are overlapping. (Loss of appetite, weight loss, grumpiness U/S, girthiness, unwillingness to move forward, loose stools.)

With HG issues, horses are often skin sensitive, reactive and grumpy (mine was), and particularly when being groomed or touched on the right side belly and flank. I had her tested for Lyme (negative), and omeprazole wasn’t helping. Vet suggested treating for HG even though she didn’t have any of the above symptoms - ate well, manure was fine, etc.

She was grumpy about being touched on that right side and generally irritable, and this was very out of character for her. Started her on Equishure and weaned her off the omeprazole (which can make the HG issues worse), and it took over 2 weeks, but once it kicked in I had my horse back

(Sulcralfate was suggested, but my BM didn’t have the time/ability to feed it on the schedule that was necessary. If you can, that is one of the first go-to treatments.)

I have kept my mare on Equishure, and also give her G.U.T. since it is good for the whole digestive system and contains probiotics; she is competing now (and hauling regularly), so it helps her with her sensitive stomach and she has been symptom-free for 2 years.

Succeed has a test (to detect blood in manure), but I’ve heard that’s not particularly reliable.

I did try Succeed, but couldn’t get her to eat it! She hated the texture.

What are your horse’s symptoms?

[Simkie]

Ranitidine treats gastric and hind gut Fairly cheap from CostCo, Sams or Walmart. Three times a day for best results, twice a day seems to work fine for most, though!

You can also get sulcrafate from the Abler people without an RX.

Otherwise you’re looking at Equishure, RiteTrac, Succeed…I did the Succeed challenge once, highly recommend! You buy through them and keep a little online journal and if it doesn’t help your horse, they give you your $$ back.

[Dr_Doolittle]

@Simkie

Ranitidine treats gastric and hind gut Fairly cheap from CostCo, Sams or Walmart. Three times a day for best results, twice a day seems to work fine for most, though!

You can also get sulcrafate from the Abler people without an RX.

Otherwise you’re looking at Equishure, RiteTrac, Succeed…I did the Succeed challenge once, highly recommend! You buy through them and keep a little online journal and if it doesn’t help your horse, they give you your $$ back.

Yes, ranitidine - that was the one on the schedule (so we couldn’t try it.) I had my mare on Rite Trac for awhile, but it’s pretty pricey; the Equishure and G.U.T. together are working, and on balance they are a little cheaper.

Rite Trac is VERY powdery (it’s the oat flour), so sometimes it’s tricky to get them to clean it all up.

I wish Succeed had given me my money back when my mare refused to eat it! :lol:

[Simkie]

@Dr. Doolittle

Rite Trac is VERY powdery (it’s the oat flour), so sometimes it’s tricky to get them to clean it all up.

RiteTrac doesn’t have oat flour in it… Are you thinking of Succeed?

I had ZERO luck getting my “eat anything” mare to eat the RiteTrac. It FIZZED when it got wet, and she really took exception to that. The Succeed was easy in comparison :lol:

[Dr_Doolittle]

@Simkie

RiteTrac doesn’t have oat flour in it… Are you thinking of Succeed?

I had ZERO luck getting my “eat anything” mare to eat the RiteTrac. It FIZZED when it got wet, and she really took exception to that. The Succeed was easy in comparison :lol:

My bad, yes - found this COTH thread:

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/horse-care/288082-succeed-alternative

The Rite Trac contains baking soda, maybe? It is SO powdery that some horses just can’t deal…For some reason my mare doesn’t mind eating the Equishure, though still a powder, it’s more crystalline.

If your horse will eat the Succeed, it’s a good choice! I had this mare’s dam on it years ago and she loved it, go figure.

[islgrl]

Succeed does not work for my horse. He gets sucralfate 2x day…

[joiedevie99]

My vet discussed her prescription for confirmed hind gut ulcers with me (although my horse did not have them so I never went through with it). She ultrasounds the colon to look for increased wall thickness, and runs a fecal occult blood test. That combined with symptoms ends with a diagnosis.

Treatment is 90 days Misoprostol and Sucralfate. In all but the mildest cases, she also prescribes 90 days without long stem forage to give the hind gut a break to heal. Instead, she suggests wet hay cubes, pellets, or at least chopped forage. If the owner won’t/barn can’t handle the diet, all hay gets soaked before feeding.

She does not recommend an acid reduction medication if the stomach scopes clean (like omeprazole) since that reduces the work that the stomach does, theoretically placing a higher work load on the hind gut. Obviously, if the horse has both at the same time, then you’d want to add that in too.

After 90 days, if symptoms are long gone, the horse can transition back to hay and onto something like Equisure.

[JB]

@Simkie

Ranitidine treats gastric and hind gut Fairly cheap from CostCo, Sams or Walmart. Three times a day for best results, twice a day seems to work fine for most, though!

Newer research shows that 4.5mg/lb (10mg/kg) every 12 hours works just as well as 3mg/lb (6.6mg/kg) every 8 hours

[MissAriel]

@JB

Newer research shows that 4.5mg/lb (10mg/kg) every 12 hours works just as well as 3mg/lb (6.6mg/kg) every 8 hours

this was done in horses?

[mvp]

@islgrl

Succeed does not work for my horse. He gets sucralfate 2x day…

So all you need is the horse to be grained AM and PM… and a prescription, or to buy it from Abler OTC?

Does this work out to be the cheapest, all y’all?

[mvp]

@joiedevie99

My vet discussed her prescription for confirmed hind gut ulcers with me (although my horse did not have them so I never went through with it). She ultrasounds the colon to look for increased wall thickness, and runs a fecal occult blood test. That combined with symptoms ends with a diagnosis.

Treatment is 90 days Misoprostol and Sucralfate. In all but the mildest cases, she also prescribes 90 days without long stem forage to give the hind gut a break to heal. Instead, she suggests wet hay cubes, pellets, or at least chopped forage. If the owner won’t/barn can’t handle the diet, all hay gets soaked before feeding.

She does not recommend an acid reduction medication if the stomach scopes clean (like omeprazole) since that reduces the work that the stomach does, theoretically placing a higher work load on the hind gut. Obviously, if the horse has both at the same time, then you’d want to add that in too.

After 90 days, if symptoms are long gone, the horse can transition back to hay and onto something like Equisure.

A very helpful addition of new detail. Oy vey, I don’t think I can get my BO to do that and I live 40 minutes away, so I can’t. When I finally move to a place where I’ll live on the farm (but mare will prolly be out 14/7 on grass), I will get this done if need be (by God).

[EventerAJ]

I’ve had good results feeding DAC CoolGut for digestive maintenance, it’s cost effective (less than $1.50/day) for the positive results I’ve seen in my horses. https://www.feeddac.com/products/special-needs/cool-gut

I tried SmartGut Ultra previously (for 3 months) with no difference, waste of money.

[MNewbie]

To add to joiedevie99 as that was the protocol we were prescribed, … initially my mare was on no hay - SR Feed only - and we added Safflower oil. Something about anti-inflammatory properties? I don’t remember the exact reason, only that I was cleaning out Wal-Mart twice weekly of a rarely used type of oil. I believe the dose was 1 cup twice a day but Mare wouldn’t take more than 1/2 cup twice daily and even then diluted .

as for the soaked hay, we did that in the Midwest summer, at a boarding barn, and everyone survived! I bought 15 cheap nylon haynets and pre-filled them. I provided a cooler with a drain on the bottom and the feeders would take the soaked hay out and open the cooler drain, put the wet hay in the stall, drop a filled haynet in the cooler, and refill the cooler while finishing the chores. Nothing spoiled or got stinky, the cooler lived at the edge of the wash stall,…and it wasn’t too much extra work. Hope that helps!

[islgrl]

@mvp

So all you need is the horse to be grained AM and PM… and a prescription, or to buy it from Abler OTC?

Does this work out to be the cheapest, all y’all?

I have it compounded so its less expensive (but still not cheap!), it goes in his grain at feeding time.

[MrsMontana]

I had my mare on Succeed and Finish Line U-7 (aloe vera juice with other goodness). She was miserable- no appetite, sensitive to touch, girthy, refusing to go forward under saddle, super cranky and pissy, and this cleared it up for her. Poor horse! I’ve since stopped the Suceed but the U-7 works GREAT for us!! I use the liquid, and started with 4 ounces a day, then after a month went to two ounces/day, and I can tell when she doesn’t get it. I tried stopping and all the nasty ulcer symptoms came back. It does wonders for her.

[scruffy_the_cat]

FWIW, my anecdotal experience with Nexium is that it does have some effect on the hind gut. My horse had a lot of sensitivity towards his loin in addition to girthiness and other ulcer symptoms (ulcers confirmed via scope). Ulcergard did not make any difference, in fact, symptoms while un Ulcergard seemed to get worse. Nexium seemed to be helpful for both issues and for us, worked better than Ulcergard.

[IPEsq]

I’ve tried aloe, ACV, RiteTrac, Equishure, Ranitidine, Sucralfate, Succeed, and then pre-probiotics things like Platinum Balance, Platinum GI, Gutwerks, Probios, etc.

Equishure seemed to work fine on grass/hay related issues. Same with RiteTrac during periods of more stress for the stomach benefits.

To be fair, I only tried Sucralfate once and at that time it was maybe questionable there was a hind gut thing happening. It was not the easiest to feed as directed.

But when I had trouble getting my horse off of a course of omeprazole, I went down the gamut of other things. Horse lives on Platinum GI and Gutwerks together. Seems to help with any fluctuations in forage and keeps his gas and motility to a level that he is more comfortable with (he is more sensitive than average). But when I did the Succeed challenge, that’s what had the most success, although I had to double dose for longer than directed. I did try later to take him off Succeed, and symptoms were returning after a week, so I guess he has to live on that now, but seems to do ok on the single dose.

Haven’t had any recurrence of symptoms through forage changes or another course of Gastrogard and some periodic use of Nexium or Ulcergard for stressful situations or mild flareups of the stomach symptoms.