Spin off topic: How long does it take a beginner to be a competent rider?

[Edre]

@mlinky

Agree with “it depends”.

I started when I was 40. Lessons 1-2 x week. It was 2 years before I felt somewhat competent, and 23 years later I’m still learning.

I am in no way naturally gifted athletically. My coordination sucks, and I have to think about every move to do anything. Fortunately, riding is something I love so much that I have been more than willing to keep at it.

I think your post actually suggests something very similar to how I personally feel.

However anyone chooses to define competence, the more I ride and the more adept I become and the more skills I acquire, the less competent/“good at riding” I feel myself to be.

Simply put, the more I seek out learning opportunities and various trusted experts and professionals, the more my eyes are opened to all the knowledge I have yet to learn or master myself. It’s actually a pretty cool reality to be in because no matter how long I work at it, there will always be another skill to develop or refine.

[mlinky]

@Edre

Simply put, the more I seek out learning opportunities and various trusted experts and professionals, the more my eyes are opened to all the knowledge I have yet to learn or master myself. It’s actually a pretty cool reality to be in because no matter how long I work at it, there will always be another skill to develop or refine.

LOL, exactly! Isn’t it great to be doing something where you are constantly learning?

As to your other point, I call it the transition between “knowing enough to be dangerous” and “knowing how dangerous you’ve become”. I have repeatedly apologized to the trainers/instructors who had to deal with me in phase one. There is a point in every new rider’s career when they think they know it all. I don’t know how those long-suffering professionals put up with it.

[Sunflower]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

No doubt there is some version of Dunning Kruger at work in how people assess their own competence with horses. i.e. “The Unskilled are Unaware.” There are several versions of this in people at my barn–novice-y back yard-y types who think they know it all. This is not a knock on novices or backyard riders-- in general-- only on those who decide to deliver their (un) knowledge as a gift in loud tones to all around them.

I never offer advice to anyone about their horse, even if asked. I defer and tell them to speak with Barn Trainer.

Even if in my head I am all OMG what are you doing? I never say anything to people about how they are doing things with their horse unless it becomes a safety issue for me and my horse-- such as please do not crack your lunge whip in my horse’s face as you stand on the rail chatting, and–please think about how to pass left to left…

But the (un)expert seems to think they have knowledge to bestow upon all—and offer their rather inane suggestions whether wanted or not. Especially unwanted. What bit to use on my horse. What color saddlepad is needed ( as this affects a horse’s way of going according to this advice ). How to pick out a hoof. How to post the trot. etc. How to jump a course.

These people would judge themselves competent. Magically competent. Like the person who used to lay down on the ground in his horse’s turnout paddock to commune with the horse.

Self-assessments of competence should be taken with a great big grain of salt. Especially if the assessment is that of a magikal expertise.

I know what I don’t know-- which is lots-- and am happy to defer to expert hands when that is needed. I like to learn.

I sure don’t think I have any magikal gifts, I think I am a reasonably skilled ammy rider, like hundreds of thousands out there, and I know that in many situations my horse and I need to work with people who know a heck of a lot more than me!

[SharonA]

And other the other side… How long does it take to really lose what feel you have? Until last year, even without riding regularly (and when I first got back into riding, at age 45 after a 25-year break) I could rely on muscle memory to be able to stand up and ride in two-point all day long. I just had the balance. Easy, quiet, relaxed… it was great. Now, after two years of just not being able to get in a real riding rhythm due to work and family, and gaining more weight, and maybe being over 55… I can’t do it. I believe I can get it back with more riding, but… sad that I can’t just click in.

[meupatdoes]

I taught an athletic, 20 year old guy how to jump itty bitty courses on a saint of a school horse in two weeks of half hour group lessons. He was the camp counselor for YMCA camp and wanted to join in the lessons. He was fit and athletic enough to get in a two point and hold the mane, and the horse was an absolute sweet heart with a metronome canter.

Much more often, I’ve taught and watched lessons where over and over again the instructor tried to present the keys to the kingdom, or just simple little increments by which the student could improve, and for reasons of attitude, lack of feel, or physical limitation it is clear the student is just never going to get it. At some point when you’ve said “hands forward six inches and grab mane” 17 times and the hands are still in the same spot pulling back, …the rider is not suddenly going to figure out how to extend their arms on number 18.

[OverandOnward]

@meupatdoes

I taught an athletic, 20 year old guy how to jump itty bitty courses on a saint of a school horse in two weeks of half hour group lessons. He was the camp counselor for YMCA camp and wanted to join in the lessons. He was fit and athletic enough to get in a two point and hold the mane, and the horse was an absolute sweet heart with a metronome canter.
…

I’ve known people who were athletic enough to do that. But are they really ‘riders’? Or passengers? Do they have the horsemanship to navigate the same course on a green horse, or one that is spooky or inclined to dodge out to the side?

It’s the horse part of it that makes this sport so tough, not the basic athletic requirements of the rider. IMO

When I first started riding lessons as a kid, the head instructor told us that there are a lot more people sitting on horses than there are true horsepeople.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

After reading over some of these posts, in addition to confidence, sensitivity, balance, rhythm, spatial relations, and core strength, I think I’ll also add common sense to helpful qualities for a “natural” rider to possess.

I have zero athletic talent, plus anxiety issues (although I work like hell to overcome these obstacles, because horses mean so much to me). I do like to think I have some common sense though.

The people who are loud know-it-alls with virtually no experience I put in the no common sense category. And the kids who scream, dart in and out of the arena or stalls, and yell around animals in a way that’s off-putting and scary even for the humans nearby. And people who creep into arenas with no warning (despite being repeatedly told to alert people before doing so), who treat their horses like domestic pets, or who do stuff like randomly giving strange horses treats (without asking) when someone is in a stall, grooming or administering some kind of medicine.

[meupatdoes]

@OverandOnward

I’ve known people who were athletic enough to do that. But are they really ‘riders’? Or passengers? Do they have the horsemanship to navigate the same course on a green horse, or one that is spooky or inclined to dodge out to the side?

It’s the horse part of it that makes this sport so tough, not the basic athletic requirements of the rider. IMO

When I first started riding lessons as a kid, the head instructor told us that there are a lot more people sitting on horses than there are true horsepeople.

Do I think he became a real horse person and proficient young horse developer after two weeks of YMCA camp?
No.

However, he has a lot better chance of becoming one one day than the adult amateur who has taken the exact same lesson every single time for the past three years and still can’t ride proactively or make smart training decisions on her own. Those ladies can’t ride a green or spooky horse either.

[Denali6298]

@OverandOnward

I’ve known people who were athletic enough to do that. But are they really ‘riders’? Or passengers? Do they have the horsemanship to navigate the same course on a green horse, or one that is spooky or inclined to dodge out to the side?

It’s the horse part of it that makes this sport so tough, not the basic athletic requirements of the rider. IMO

When I first started riding lessons as a kid, the head instructor told us that there are a lot more people sitting on horses than there are true horsepeople.

I consider riders and horse(wo)men two different things. I don’t think it’s fair to equate competence at the beginner level to be able to deal with a spooky, green horse.

[S1969]

@findeight

It’s a way to keep them interested and, at 25 hrs in the saddle on a good, safe schoolie, it’s not asking too much.IMO

Its hard to draw any conclusions from what any rider posts on the internet with no pictures or videos.

I agree. I started riding at 33.

The quality/training of the horses might be more of a factor than the student. I rode some schoolies that were so easy that it gave the illusion of greater skill - a flat trot, an easy, rocking canter, and so well-schooled that they barely required the rider to do anything to change gaits or steer.

And then you get on the ones that aren’t so great, and/or have choppy gaits and you realize how much the horse was doing for you. Rather humbling.

Of course some individuals are better than others. The couple of people I know that grew up downhill skiing took to riding pretty well.

[AMWookey]

My husband rode for the first time with me in Italy, on a challenging week of trail rides through the mountains. Sturdy and well behaved but spirited QH, and he was cantering the first day. It was not the type of follow the leader rides you see most places.

After watching eventing at the pan am games 4 yrs later, he decided he might be interested in riding. Took some lessons on dependable type horses, and when I injured my back, he started walking and trotting my WB, and lessons on him. Some of the lessons were good, some just concentrated on making him able to safely canter around a course, but he was jumping courses within a month of lessons, and we moved the horse to a barn 2 hrs away due to our work schedules, he only lessoned once a week, and tried to get up to ride one other time a week. He was able to safely show my horse in the low jumpers that summer, roughly 6 mths into consistent weekly lessons.

When we moved to the States, so 8 mths ago, that is when he really started taking lessons with a coach who focused on him as more then a passenger. He was able to ride almost daily, but my back was better so my horse was mine again. We actually bought him a green thoroughbred, knowing we had a competent coach to put the miles on him. It was the best stupid decision ever, as these two are the best of bro’s, have done a couple dressage shows, then a couple CT’s and completed their first BN HT on their dressage score. Since we picked up his horse in November.

A couple considerations for why he has progressed. For one, he is extremely dedicated to it. When he decided he loved riding, he read, he watched, he audited, he read rule books-everything. Any opportunity to learn, he took. He is an elite level athlete, having played very high levels of a couple different sports, and has that dedication and body control. He is also a helicopter pilot, and they have to be able to use multiple parts of their body independently. Finally, I have insisted, especially recently, on quality coaching. We only get to live somewhere with this much depth in instruction for 3 years, so we ride with everyone, take clinics, audit lessons, volunteer a gazillion hours, and just learn learn learn. Every day off, every evening or morning, all our vacation days and money has gone into riding and our horses for the next 2.5 yrs.

[Beck]

I don’t think a ‘competent’ rider has to be able to deal with a ‘spooky’ horse. They should be able to handle a few small spooks, however, and be able to go out in a large open area on their own and maintain control. And some precision in that would be nice if we are going to label them ‘competent’. That imo about covers the ‘green horse’ aspect as well.

Riding around following other schoolies in an enclosed arena without falling off =/= competent. After all, what are they really doing?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

As a middle-aged, unathletic woman I totally get the frustration from instructors who feel like they are giving the same lesson over and over again, but it’s worth noting that this is why if things aren’t clicking, sometimes it’s helpful to try a different program. I’m still an unathletic person, but I think I would be farther along if I’d found a teacher who was more suited to my way of learning earlier in my riding career. If the instructor keeps repeating the same advice and the student isn’t getting it, the instructor has to change the lesson objective, language, and approach–and if the instructor runs dry, then it’s time for both student and teacher to move on.

It’s worth noting that just because a teacher doesn’t click with a student, that doesn’t mean the teacher is bad, it just may be an inappropriate fit. Although it is helpful if the teacher has a varied skill set to deal with different horses and different students, some instructors are better at teaching more advanced riders and just don’t have the patience with beginner riders or riders with physical issues. Kind of like how some teachers might be great at teaching an AP course in English literature, but not necessarily be able to help a kid learn to read, or a child who struggles with a learning disability.

Even though I’ve seen talented kids who could probably pick up learning the basics of riding from almost anyone, I’ve also seen talented kids held back by unhelpful instruction (like kids taught to stiffly brace their legs to keep their heels down, sawing at the horse’s mouth to give the illusion of being on the bit) that they then have to unlearn.

Wow, riding is really complicated! I mean, I guess with simpler sports like running, it’s possible for bad coaching to hurt talented kids through over-training or bad nutritional advice, but there are so many different factors which go into producing even a basically competent rider.

[RainWeasley]

@Denali6298

I consider riders and horse(wo)men two different things. I don’t think it’s fair to equate competence at the beginner level to be able to deal with a spooky, green horse.

Yup. I feel like I am a crappy rider, especially the more dressage lessons I take and the more I realize I don’t actually know. But I can work with a baby or green horse and get them going pretty confidently without much nonsense (I’m not great at riding out the really bad nonsense), at least to beginning levels of any discipline. The closest to a “trained” horse I have ever owned was a freshly off the track TB. I’m really enjoying going back to fill in a lot of the holes I have now, though. I feel like I can say I’m an okay trainer, but not a very good rider!

[OneGrayPony]

I got my first horse at 12, and was within a few rides jumping bareback. I had no lessons and a mare that was stubborn, but a saint. I jumped bareback because I couldn’t get the western saddle that came with her tight enough and I wanted to jump. It was natural balance, not skill (obviously) or knowledge. The next horse I rode was an arab who no one else in the livery barn would ride because he didn’t walk and he spooked like mad. I evented that one. After that I got thrown up on all the hot horses or horses that came into the program “fresh”. I rode a youngster who had zero balance and would buck like a fool when he lost it. I rode others who had runaway issues and one who reared with frightening frequency.

Was I good? I’d like to say I was fairly talented with a sensitive horse, but I was lucky, brave, had great balance and I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I would NOT say I was competent. The amount I knew at that point was a drop in the bucket as compared to what I know now. I’m sure some of the jumping courses that I did then were hideous as I didn’t really understand adjustability and I hadn’t a freaking clue about what I was really trying to accomplish with dressage.

Many years later, now I’m one of those middle-aged women who has gained more than a few pounds around the midsection, and is no longer brave. But I KNOW so much more now. I’d say I’m way better as a horsewoman and a rider, despite the fact that I will no longer tackle a 3’ log jump or ride a jigging spooking horse for hours on the trail. Could I? Maybe. Not really sure I’d want to. Am I competent? I sure don’t look it.

I’m not sure where I’m going with this except to say, I’m not sure that anyone really gains true competency with horses. There’s always a new challenge, whether it be a new discipline or a tricky horse. The more I learn, the more questions get opened up for me.