Perhaps there is a difference in AA riders who have a hobby and show once in a while vs.the person who does ride to compete and earn medals, etc. I add this because I recently decided to stop competing and find my motivation has changed a lot
That is because in order to compete as an AA they have to have a USEF amateur card active with the USEF, and you didn’t because you were paying a nonmember fee.
There is no additional expense to compete as an amateur if your USEF is active.
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Training and show budget is probably under $5k/year. This is lessons, clinics, schooling shows, rated shows, everything. They may not even do any rated shows, or they only do enough shows to qualify for something. They take one to four lessons weekly They don’t have access to top trainers due to budget, time, or location challenges
I am having a little bit of difficulty with your math. $5,000 divided by 50 weeks is $100 per week. I do not think you can take 4 lessons a week for $100.
Maybe “one to four lessons a month”?
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IMO the typical Ammy is not someone who would be featured in a magazine. The typical Ammy is the person who works full time, takes lessons, owns an average horse and attends a handful of rated shows. The majority of AAs I have seen, even those who ride with BNTs aren’t going to Florida or showing every weekend.
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Sorry, yes, it is 4 lessons monthly - aka a lesson every week or two…
My completely unscientific perspective:
The 66%: On a TB, QH, WB, WBX, etc. purchased for under $15k (maybe $10k) and they lesson 1-4x times a month. They are most often adults who are comfortable but still have to budget for their horse expenses. A second horse is either a horse stepping down, a project horse, or the next generation. The are most likely to stay at training-1st level because it is flipping hard to climb the levels without access to consistent training or luxuries like indoor rings in the winter.
The 33%: have increasing levels of wealth, may own substantial land/personal farms, are almost exclusively on WBs, can import or purchase a schoolmaster if desired, have 2-4 horses, and typically are in full training. They are more likely to break into the 3rd+ level because of access to horses, training, and time that eludes the majority of riders. They may have started out in the first group and then rose into the second over lifelong accumulation of wealth, family money, etc.
In Wellington I think that the “one in three” makes up 90% of the audience and $25k for a prospect is a steal of a deal while in rural no mans land that “33%” may represent only 1 or 2 riders in the entire community so spending $25k on a prospect seems ludicrous.
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exvet I do not understand this. What added expenses to compete as an AA? And I really don’t get the comment about AllBreeds… because it takes 4 shows and 8 tests? THAT I could understand… but again I do not get the added expenses as an AA…
OK… I read the response below your original post. But I still don’t get the All Breeds comment…
Only 30,000 members? That isn’t a lot for a national organization considering the size of the country and horse owning population. How many are AA’s v/s youth/jr, professional, trainers etc.?
If 78% of that compete, guessing but have they discouraged away a lot of members that don’t or no longer compete.
90% are adults yet how much does the USDF spend on the youth programs? Not that it isn’t important but how many of the 10% youth/jr go on to be AA’s or higher? Of the 90% adults how many were youth/jr dressage riders compared to how many started dressage as an adult?
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No one needs to get it except me; but, I’ll try one more time:
- I plan to show no more than 1-2 recognized shows a year. Since that is the case it makes no sense for me to pay for an annual USEF membership. If I still choose to show I either pay for opportunity classes through first level (probably the way I’ll go) and forego even the non-member expense altogether or I compete as a pro in order to keep the expenses down - no need to reactivate my amateur card. In either event, LOL, I’m not going to compete as an amateur.
- Prior to this the only incentives for me to compete as an amateur was for my medals or awards such as all-breed awards, dover medals and the like. I no longer feel the need to compete for all-breed something that was important when I was campaigning a stallion or promoting a breeding program because there was incentive within my breed to do all of it as an AMATEUR. I also already have my bronze and silver so there isn’t any need for any of my scores ‘to count’ prior to getting to Intermediate.
- While I have shown at regionals in the past, I have no incentive to ‘qualify’ or earn scores and compete at regionals or our state championships. BTDT.
Bottom line, in my quest to show again but save as much money as possible I had to ask myself if the expense of riding/competing as an amateur is/was worth it. I then drilled down further and realized I could compete one to two times a year to gauge my progress. With that goal in mind, what on this Earth gives me the incentive to compete as an amateur? …a status defined solely by the USEF? NOTHING.
LOL - i’m not your typical amateur. I’m not your typical anything. I’m simply a rider/owner of a homebred who like all the others I’ve trained myself and plan to go through our dressage journey on a budget since like many other riders I have a full-time job, dependents and a house to maintain.
I tried to play within the rules for years in a system that isn’t really adequate despite what I believe to be honest efforts to appeal to the masses. I just don’t think you can account for all the nuances when it comes to riders who don’t ride for a living. Each of us has to determine how to ‘do it’ if we want it badly enough. That is all I’m doing and it’s no different than all the other 'typical amateurs" yet, I’m not one…LOL
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Oh, I get it! The first thing I thought is LESS SHOWS when not trying to qualify for All Breeds:D And yes, that is one of the few programs USDF runs that does recognize those of us on “other breeds”, whether AA or Open. One thing that people should know - the REGISTRIES pay for that program, USDF does not fund it. I volunteer with a small registry, and our second largest annual expense is USDF membership and All Breeds bill, second only after DNA testing!
Several years ago, USDF talked about cutting the All Breeds program back - THAT was not a good idea…
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regarding ex vet’s non member fees, I’m confused. Entries that I just filled out for recognized shows have two lines: UESF “show pass” is $45 - ie the non member fee. USDF non member fee is $35. Nowhere does it say this is for amateurs only. A non- member is a non member…
And yes the prize list offered opportunity classes, thus avoiding the above, at training and first level.
2tempe-
The show secretary pointed out when I entered the last recognized show that under the show pass I could not compete as an amateur. If I had wanted to compete as an amateur I would have had to pay to re-instated my membership and declaration. She knows me and my budget focused history and suggested that I show opportunity if I really wanted to save money and had no intention or care of my scores counting towards anything. Previously I had always had/maintained my USEF membership so I was completely unaware of this limitation of the show pass. I have always been a USDF member whether GMO or participating, currently just GMO.
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Exvet - After re reading your comments, I get it. I was thinking somehow that they waived the show pass fee all together!
“78% compete with at least one horse” 
I would think 100% would compete with at least one horse. A horse is required to compete isn’t it? At least one…unless there are classes where people perform dressage tests on their own two feet.
Granted , I’m not up on the latest in the dressage world but that would be a very silly test indeed.
Rather like this (begin at 1:10) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC7zRboFh8I
I’m guessing the other 22% aren’t currently competing for a number of reasons. They’ve maybe just not worded that too well.
I’m a BD member despite not competing affiliated at the moment. I have to be a member as I’m a national steward. Owners of registered horses also have to have BD membership, though this is cheaper than a competitive membership. I think there is also a requirement for some sponsors, breeders with registered prefixes, judges etc to be members. Also parents of children who compete. I’m assuming it# a similar situation for you guys?
I (and many of my friends) have automatic Group USDF memberships through our GMO to qualify for awards, but we only event or only compete at the schooling shows so don’t have competition records. Guessing that is where the numbers come from.
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Thank you. I understand, now.
Flame suit on****
I never understand why the discussion (ammy vs pro) often comes down to money or perceived access to resources (ie imported horse, educational opportunities). My simple thought is did you make this sport your profession? If yes- open, if No- ammy. The problem in N.A is how do you define this as a profession? You don’t need to go to post secondary education or get certification (you can get recognized as a coach in Equine Canada, but not mandatory) as a prerequisite to being a professional. So how do you define those that have made dressage a profession? In Europe it might be easier because it is recognized in some countries with testing (ie Germany).
Pro vs ammy should not come down to money or talent. There are many Pro’s who struggle with money but still make riding their profession. There are definitely Pros who are not that talented yet still get business. There are many ammys who are talented but do not make this sport their profession. The talented ammy may be rich or poor, but if they have not made this their profession I see no reason why they are not considered an ammy.
SO again how to do define making a profession out of it? Is it selling so many horses in a X year period that you’ve trained? Is it lessons? Is it getting paid to ride other’s horses? Is it once you’ve competed at a certain level (***CDI and up)?
I think the closest comparison I can think of is Pro Hockey (yes I know it is team and there is no puck/stick talent like a horse…). If you make it to the NHL, it is your job, it is your profession. If you have NHL level skills but never go to the NHL and compete in a local “adult ammy” team- why would you not be allowed to play in the ammy league?
Talent alone (either horse or rider) should not be the determining factor in being ammy or Pro, or having to compete in open classes. I get the underlying feeling that some people here feel high horse talent belongs in open classes (gait advantage in scores), but you can put a green as grass rider on that horse and they are not guaranteed to to well as a pair.
Now defining grass roots dressage is a whole 'nother ball of wax. This is the distinction we need to be making. I perceive grass roots dressage as the introduction to the sport and the base of it. From there you can progress to ammy or Pro, but this is when you start to learn and build your skills. In my opinion, this is where we need to put more funding. If we bring up the quality of the base, all future ammys and Pros will be better for it. Now, how long you are defined as being the base…I’m not sure.
Grass roots riders are the ones being penalized by programs that are only accessible to certain groups (ie young riders), by score requirements (at the lower levels) and the high cost of shows. This is where the focus needs to be, not who is considered ammy or Pro. By defining grass roots, we take care of that problem as all are treated equal at the base. (**not talking about Pros who take younger horse out at training, talking about the group of riders who are just starting to learn and get experiences in dressage).
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I agree… The system in the US is all about money…
In Germany you are considered to be a professional if you either learn the Profession (Bereiter Pferdewirtschaftsmeister) or if you make a living from it. Thats it.
And everybody rides in the same classes. The splits in the classes are not about being a professional or an AA but about the ability of the riders or the horses.
Here rich AAs are worried that better rider take away their ribbons… They figure if people pay somebody for a lesson he must be good so everybody who takes money is considered to be Professional.
Manni0 you cannot compare Germany to the US. You have clubs that train riders from a young age. If I am not mistaken, you must belong to one of those clubs to compete. You have licensing and we do not - anyone can hang a shingle out that says"Dressage master". And in fact, if you “make a living from it” is JUST what the USEF Ammi rule is all about. If you “make a living from it”, you are not an Amateur. How expensive the horse is, how expensive the barn is, how much experience the rider has, what breed… no difference.
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