Netg raised for me the question, what is a typical AA? obviously she is not because she stated everything she is doing is not typical AA. So are there typical AA´s and different ones?? For me an AA is not allowed to make money with giving lessons… So are there more chracteristics??
Does where you live make a difference? Where you keep your horse? If you work or have to work or are retired? Your goals? Your talent? Your level of competence?
I would think that there are USDF stats on AA riders. I will follow this thread to see how ‘typical’ I am… of course I hope that I am at least in the middle of the pack. But I think I am older then most.
The AA not making money is the technical definition and a separate concept from what constitutes a typical AA, and I think it would probably help to not conflate the two.
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No AA, typical or atypical, is allowed to make money giving lessons. But if I had to guess, the majority are most likely: college-educated, good job, no kids or grown kids, aged 40-60, own one horse that they board, take lessons, compete roughly 6 times a year at Intro/ Training/ First, spend most of their disposable income on it.
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I guess I was think about “working for a living” at a non-horse job or wealthy enough to pick up and go to Florida… wealthy enough to afford more then one horse.
On the other hand, my favorite AA ( from another time and country) was Reiner Klimke. Showing hold old I am. There was a good article decades ago about how he rode two horse every morning before he went off to his law practice. Certainly not a Typical AA.
Not gonna speculate on what is typical or whether or not I am typical.
I am self employed and have felixble enough hours to keep two horses in riding all days of the week on my own property. Training level/ 1st level project horses that are solely ridden by me with 2-4 lessons a month plus a clinic or two a year. Schooling shows regularly but I live a bit remotely so I can only afford to travel to a major rated show maybe once a year.
How about everyone else?
Exactly!
Further, if you really want to know what a typical dressage AA is, you’d be better off collecting and plotting (anonymized) data than asking what characteristics beyond not making money are associated with the ‘typical’ ammie. The former will tell you something about how actual AAs fall on spectrums of demographics, economics, education, horses owned/leased/ridden, showing/lessons/training, etc. The latter will elicit the traits that cause people to self-identify as typical or atypical (which may or may not reflect how typical those traits truly are).
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I don’t believe there is such a thing as a “typical AA”. While the actual definition for competing is fairly black and white, the actual general population really isn’t.
Everyone is in different stages of their lives and their journey through dressage. Some people start on a $4 horse and other’s go to Europe and buy a schoolmaster. Some people are happy poking around doing Training at local shows and others want to go to CDI’s. No two people are going to be the same. It’s far too hard to lump everyone into such a broad category.
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THis is EXACTLY WHY the USDF has problems developing programs “for AAs”. We are a diverse group - from those of us on $100K imported warmbloods riding in CDIs, to those of us struggling to make ends meet riding a backyard atypical breed horse trying to afford a lesson or two on occasion. No matter what USDF does, it seems some “typical AAs” complain… because there is no such thing as a “typical AA”. So, they leave it to the GMOs to develop programs - but that requires that “typical AAs” be active in their GMO and have a voice that is heard in their GMO - and that’s just not an easy thing in some areas!!
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I think it is more important to define the grass roots dressage rider which might include some professional USDF members. I know several people who teach up/down lessons but still have the same challenges that many AA riders face. I think if you look at the majority of USDF members, they will fit into these criteria:
-Work for a living because they have to. May be self employed or work for an employer. This means free time is a challenge as are finances. Taking a month off to train anywhere is not an option, even if the could afford to go to Wellington or Germany.
-Income varies widely. Remember $100k/year is not a high income in parts of CA, NY, and other areas, while it is a great income in much of the Midwest. But a common denominator is they are on a budget, and have to work.
-Training and show budget is probably under $5k/year. This is lessons, clinics, schooling shows, rated shows, everything. They may not even do any rated shows, or they only do enough shows to qualify for something. They take one to four lessons monthly. They don’t have access to top trainers due to budget, time, or location challenges
-They May own one to three horses. If they keep their horses at home, they are more likely to own more then one horse. I’d guess a good percentage have horses at home.
-They may own a Warmblood but are just as likely to not own a Warmblood. A good percentage paid less then $10k for their horse.
-Most have not shown above 2nd Level. A few have gotten their Bronze, most have never been on an FEI horse - ever.
-Most are over 40 and either reentry riders or started riding later in life.
-Quite a few volunteer, at shows, in their GMO, at other horse events.
I’m sure there is more to add to the list but that is a good start. Go to a schooling show and you’ll meet a lot of them! Pay attention to the volunteers at your rated shows, and you’ll also see many.
of course there are also the middle layer AA riders that are in full training and have a relatively nice horse in the $25-$100k range, but I still think the majority of USDF members (AA and Open!) are in that grass roots category. And I think that is the group that is dropping out of dressage. Or being pushed out
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When someone describes another as a “typical AA,” I have found that it can take on a negative tone…usually in regards to their skill level. Oftentimes, and I am not saying this is right, but one thinks of thèmes such as “timid” or “doesn’t have a true independent seat”. I found this article to be quite encouraging and uplifting if you forget about their personal circumstances and only look to their riding ability. While they may have access to more resources, they have still put in the time and effort and achieved a very high skill set…high enough to compete and win against top professionals.
In Europe, amateurs and professionals compete against each other. There is no distinction. Yes, there are newly created amateur divisions but this is not the norm. In my opinion, this is more of an equalizer…it means, that every single rider’s placing is based solely on their performance and skill. The best rider wins…period. So, if you get a 5th or 6th place in a class of 30-40…that is a wonderful accomplishment. As a result of this system, I have found that the “typical European amateur” rides to a much higher Level.
For me, I have always disliked the divide between amateurs and professionals and I don’t believe there is really such a thing as a “typical AA.” Is there a “typical professional?” Some professionals come from money, some don’t…some are great riders, some are not. Why is it that amateurs have to be put into a single category??
Just some thoughts to put out there!
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Some statistics from USDF in 2017:
• 30,000 members
• 90% are adults with 87% over the age of 35
• 96% are female
• 28% of membership have an income of $150,000 or more
• 78% compete with at least one horse
• 50% ride 4-5 times a week
• 97% own at least one horse
• 64% own more than one horse
• Top 3 breeds: 50% Warmbloods, 26% Thoroughbreds, and 19% Quarter Horses
• 37% own more than 5 acres of land
Taken from https://www.usdf.org/business-opportunities/advertising/MediaPlanner2017weblinks.pdf
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Thank you very much!! I agree with you. BTW in our Schooling shows in my GMO we have no distinctions either.
I think its unfortunate that money is the distinction between an AA and a Pro in the US. Because thats a very artificial reason created to protect rich AA s… In Germany you are a professional if you learned it as a profession and if you are certified.
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Since this is a spinoff thread, I think the DT article highlighting AAs drove some angst about how much success in dressage competition hinges on money. That’s not new nor unique to dressage or really any sport. To have a home life as a kid that permits lessons, coaching, time and ability to participate seriously in any sport outside of school (and somewhat in school as well) normally indicates a certain income level. And as an adult, same applies. It is absolutely an advantage to be filthy rich, but as others note, to be truly successful and good at dressage requires skill, practice, and perseverance. Look at the Del Mar debacle - money doesn’t make everyone a good rider! I am very fortunate to be able to afford what I can, and within that, I don’t feel limited in my journey to progress. I’m not begrudging the success of others within their means, either. The sport requires money to exist - facilities, competitions, etc. That’s fine, and I’m perfectly happy doing lessons and a few clinics and enjoying the schooling shows around me, and thankful for what I have.
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There is no definition of a typical AA; an AA can fit many different scenarios. You can look at USDF, and any breed association and see that AA can be represented by many definitions of riders.
In general, they don’t earn money doing horse related things but that has exceptions.
We tend to think of AA’s as having less skill and experience then professionals but that too isn’t always accurate; not to mention professionals can go back to being AA’s if they take the profit out of being professionals.
Maybe we need an Adult Novice designation too?
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I agree with you there is no description of an AA or an Professional in the US except one takes money for lessons and the other one doesn’t…
LilyandBaron nailed it imo. While I agree wholeheartedly with MOR’s point which I believe is that we can not forget or leave behind the grassroots contingent which is large, the issue is that there are too many layers /differences that further divide amateurs that I don’t think there is one definition that fits other than statistically. However if you can arrive at a definition based solely on the law of averages as defined by USDF criteria, I think there are still very large subsets that will feel disadvantaged.
There is no way to ‘level’ the playing field. For example, I do not get paid to ride horses for a living; but, I’ve been riding my entire life, have owned many, had my own breeding program, still start/back my own and do not need assistance in doing so. I have my bronze and silver having earned them on non-warmbloods. I’ve been told by more than one European top level rider that I am NOT the ‘typical’ AMERICAN amateur yet by definition I am per USEF an amateur (which was officially challenged but proven to be true). I do not even make 150,000 /year and have dependents so financially I struggle like so many of the ‘grassroots’.
I took a 3 year hiatus from showing to wait for my last home produced beast to grow up and now have competed him in one schooling show and one recognized show thus far. I chose to compete as an open rider due to the added expense of competing as an amateur. I will probably continue to do so in order to save money. My sole goal is to earn my gold so there is no benefit to me to compete as an amateur since I don’t have the money to vie for All Breed Awards. Interestingly I scored 7.5 as rider in both categories under the collectives in all my ‘open’ rides. I have received such scores sporadically before as an amateur; but, this was the first time I did so across the board for the whole weekend. I have to admit, I kind of like it.
If amateurs are to be defined by skill, then a ranking system based on ability and performance will have to be defined and so far that has proven to be darn near impossible.
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Could you expand on the where the added expense comes in for you to compete as an amateur? For me it’s never been more than which box I check on a registration form, but I’ve only done straight dressage at low levels.
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I find this an interesting topic. I didn’t see the original discussion / article but will go look for it.
I think of myself as a pretty typical AA. For me that means someone who has to fit riding/training around “normal” work/life responsibilities - job, family, etc. (in addition, obviously, to not getting paid to ride or train.)
I have ridden for pretty much my whole life, starting out as a once-a-week-lesson kid at a local barn. I bought my first horse, with money saved from my grooming job, at age 16. For most of my adult life, I have boarded one or two horses, and have generally ridden after work with the other hardy souls who trek out to the barn in the evenings after getting home from jobs, perhaps putting dinner on the table for the family, and so on. It is a dedicated bunch. I like to train and compete so I’ve generally kept my horse(s) in professional programs with regular lessons and shows.
These days, after decades of boarding, I finally have my own farmette. Having my own place has allowed me to have more horses, and also gives me the ability to retire my guys at home when it’s time for them to do so. Right now I have a semi-retired guy who is leased out to a friend to enjoy, two 7 year olds that are my main riding horses, and a husband horse who is on loan from a lovely local professional. I will board the two 7 year olds out this winter so that I can keep them in work (at a place with an indoor) while a covered ring is being built at my place. That is a big splurge for sure, but given that my farm mortgage costs quite a bit less than I previously paid in board, we’re able to make it work.
Sure amb, first example is when I entered the recognized show just a few weeks ago. Since it was my first for the year (and first recognized show ever for my 4 year old) in addition to November 30th looming over us I saw no point in renewing my USEF membership. As a result I wanted to simply pay the one time non member fees. I was told by the show secretary that there would be additional expense if I wanted to compete as an AA or I could compete as an open rider and not have to pay the additional expense. I plan to continue to do the same for the next few years simply because I’m not planning to campaign my horse for the purpose of any awards - btdt. At the most, I’ll likely show two recognized shows a year. What I do hope to do is, God willing, train him to GP. There is absolutely no sense in me paying extra until I get to the level where the test scores must count to attain my goal. Since I already have my bronze and silver I can save quite a bit of money (cumulatively) with this approach. It also alleviates the need for me to turn down any opportunities that come my way that impinge on an AA status. For years I turned those down but if I simply focus on my ONE goal, I no longer have to and can simply be free to do what I want, when I want. In the past those lost opportunities would have afforded me some financial benefits.
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