Spinoff: Bareback to specifically help rider training

[normandy_shores]

This winter is essentially bootcamp for me – lots of lessons and really trying to work on my position.

A few months ago, I rode my pony bareback for the first time, and noticed how much I was throwing my body around for canter transitions and other movements. I figure bareback is a great way to make myself really sit and stay centred.

On that note, I’m committing to bareback riding, no stirrups time, and 2 point conditioning (I’m an eventer). For the bareback riding, my goal would be to ride a respectable test at my level as well as be able to school all the movements we are working on regularly, as well as drastically improve my position and posture.

Any suggestions on exercises, or tips, or pitfalls to watch out for? I know many of us ride bareback when it’s cold or to save time/cold fingers tacking, but does anyone do it specifically for the advantages of training horse and/or rider?

Thanks

[RPM]

I remember reading in at least one of Margaret Cabell Self’s books that she started all her students off bareback for seat and balance and condition. I wish I’d been started off that way, but at least I did do some bareback riding when I was young. IMO there’s no substitute for it.

Good luck – enjoy!

[RxCate]

Just make sure you video yourself or have eyes on the ground every once in a while to make sure you are holding the proper position, and not falling in to chair-seat or hunching to compensate for not having the saddle.

Otherwise, bareback, is great conditioning!

[Magicboy]

Watch out for pinching with your knees too. Bareback is fun but some trainers do think it can cause bad habits in rider position

[Scribbler]

We rode bareback as kids. Some only rode bareback, but my pony wasn’t comfy enough for long rides. Still back then I could w t c and pop over a log bareback. Have ridden a bit bb w t now as an adult horse is super comfy but the ground is a long ways away especially on hard pack trails and I’ve lost my nerve.

I think the one big benefit is getting that natural sense of balance as long as you can ride on a loose rein and sit upright.

[normandy_shores]

On both counts, the potential for knee pinching and chair seat, I think I’ll be ok given my mount. Pony is only 13.2 and when I’m bareback, my knees don’t even touch her side (her widest point hits my above the knee)… and if I chair seat, my feet will be banging her elbows LOL

All good points, I’ll have to watch the knee pinching… guess if my knees start touching her I know I have a problem?

[normandy_shores]

I rode bareback tonight after long lining and ground driving — and rode with a better upper body position than I’ve ever had! I struggling with low hands and tipping forward. I figure if I can make myself carry my hands while I feel the least secure (bareback) the habit will hopefully carry over even better.

[Abbie.S]

Just be careful not to do it too much. Saddles are very handy in that they distribute the pressure our seatbones would otherwise pointedly focus on the horse’s long spinal muscles. Women especially, with the shape of their pelvis, tend to have “pointier” ischial tuberosities than men. Regularly riding bareback and asking your horse to really work over his back could cause soreness for the horse.

[theresak]

@Abbie.S

Just be careful not to do it too much. Saddles are very handy in that they distribute the pressure our seatbones would otherwise pointedly focus on the horse’s long spinal muscles. Women especially, with the shape of their pelvis, tend to have “pointier” ischial tuberosities than men. Regularly riding bareback and asking your horse to really work over his back could cause soreness for the horse.

Yes! I was going to ask how people can ride bareback without feeling like your seatbones are digging into the horse’s muscles on either side of the spine? I also have a very, very high-withered horse and therefore have that issue as well.

I hopped on bareback last winter (well, horse was wearing a heavy blanket and liner) and walked around and trotted a few steps. I was so tight in my legs and back trying to ease the pressure from my seatbones without getting too much on his withers…

I saddle up and ride in an unheated indoor in the low teens (easy rides). If it’s in the single digits, I’ll either free lunge or we’ll hand walk for 15-20 minutes.

[Mondo]

I’m going to chime in here and say that if you want to work on your position, ride without stirrups, not without a saddle. Bareback is the WORST thing you can do for your position. It is good for balance, I won’t argue that point, but it automatically puts you in a chair seat, using your knees. I do not recommend it.

[Jackie_Cochran]

Back decades ago when I tended to ride bareback in the summer heat, I accidentally discovered that if my legs were bare (using really short shorts or a wrap around skirt with plenty of room) I was really secure bareback and I felt no need to grip with my knees. I was able to easily get up into two point, which I did a good bit in order to get my pointy seat bones off my horse’s back.

In the winter wool pants helped my grip, though not as much as my bare legs in the summer, and two-point was harder. However I was still able to get a lot of my weight off my seat bones by doing a half-seat.

[HereComesZach]

I have been riding my 7 year old with a Christ Lammfelle bareback pad that I took the padding out of, (so it’s just sheepskin between us now.) Because of our current riding conditions (outdoor, ground starting to get hard, in the dark with only one light,) when I hop on her after work, I’ve been riding her with just the bareback pad, and then saddling up to ride during the daylight on weekends.

We do a ton of walking, but have been starting to work on the trot, which I sit. I get really concerned about a few different things: I get worried that without a saddle to disperse it, there is too much concentrated pressure under my seat bones digging into her muscles/ribs. I get concerned that if I bounce even a little, I’ll make her back sore. I get concerned that because of all of the above, we are kind of just shuffling along at a trot, and worry I’m not working on ‘forward’ enough.

I have no idea if I’m doing more harm than good. I haven’t stopped yet, because so far we are both only strong enough to try trotting sitting bareback trot for about 5 - 10 minutes, two or three times a week. When I rub her down after our ride, she doesn’t seem back sore. We are starting to have moments where, my lower leg goes on and I can feel her engage her abs and lift her back. I am hoping that if I work at it slowly, that we can build up to something stronger together.

[UrbanHennery]

I’m riding bareback for the balance benefits. I tend to sit to the left, collapse my right side, and shorten my right leg. Riding bareback makes it really easy to feel when I’m not centered. And I can see/feel dramatic changes in how straight my horse is moving.

I use a Best Friends bareback pad to help cushion my seat bones as well as improve my position. Being on a suede pad with full seat breeches means I don’t have to grip to stay on. The padding (and the fact I’m riding a flat backed QH with moderate withers) means I can more easily maintain the correct leg position and sit up.

I’ve been doing one or two regular rides each week bareback. To date I haven’t noticed any back soreness on his part and I’m starting to reap the benefits, finding that I’m sitting straighter when i ride with a saddle, and when I’m not I’m more likely to feel it and correct it.

[normandy_shores]

I want to ride bareback for the balance benefits as well. My lower leg/lower body is quite good (according to my coach)… it’s my upper body and movement throughout transitions and movements that are my issue. I’m only planning to ride bareback once every week or two, as I’m only riding maybe 3-4x a week anyhow (pony is currently boarded in a different city from where I live).

I usually do my bareback riding after I’ve long lined or ground driven, so she’s warmed up already. I’m normally only on for maybe 20 minutes then, and just focus on transitions and movements.

[mzm_farm]

I think bareback can be wonderful for training your bum to stay connected to your horse - much harder to fake without support of saddle and stirrups. Lungeline exc. are great . Don’t worry so much about your legs and try to focus on seat and core.

My daughter used to do this awesome trick when riding her pony as a kid - she would lay down her head on her pony’s bum and just stay there, w/t and do “sit ups” and “naps”. Over time, her lower legs got really quiet and did not move. He was a very trustworthy pony!

Also, try riding on lungeline with your eyes closed at whatever gaits you are comfortable - it will give you a whole new perspective on balance!

Have fun!

[RTF]

I ride without a saddle on a regular basis. I get grippy in a saddle and you just cannot stay on bareback if you get tight tense. I am riding at third level, hope to show my mare 4th/psg in the next two years. It also teaches you to really be hyper aware of all of your transitions. Rough transitions are hard to stay with. I personally feel like my mare goes better with less tack, and although some people might say it’s not good for your position, it’s fantastic for your balance. I have a really good seat, I definitely do not have the best form. I have never noticed my mare getting sore. She’s fairly round though. Have fun!

[CFFarm]

@Abbie.S

Just be careful not to do it too much. Saddles are very handy in that they distribute the pressure our seatbones would otherwise pointedly focus on the horse’s long spinal muscles. Women especially, with the shape of their pelvis, tend to have “pointier” ischial tuberosities than men. Regularly riding bareback and asking your horse to really work over his back could cause soreness for the horse.

I disagree. I’ve see more back problems with horses only ridden with saddle than ridden bareback or in treeless saddles. Most "research’ out there has been conducted by saddle makers. You are, of course entitled to your opinion.

https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/health-archive/the-biomechanics-of-riding-bareback-11762

[buck22]

Years ago, when the real Buck was riding sound, he had a back like a sofa and was built for bareback riding. No withers, double back (his back was so muscular his spine was recessed), and gaits as smooth as silk.

I rode exclusively bareback for over 3 years - 4-6 days a week, mountain riding, and galloping and jumping small obstacles/creeks/ditches every week. The only time I used a saddle is if we were packing into the mountains for a full day or overnight, or if we were doing gymkhana or team penning. Showing low level dressage or low fences/fun classes I pulled my stirrups off my saddles.

I was in fantasic riding shape. I could post easily and maintain a 2 point position for about 3 laps around the indoor bareback. My lower leg was remarkable and my core became so strong and stable it was like I had a plumb bob for a spine.

I did however develop a few very bad habits, and most took years to realize:

• I forgot how to use stirrups. More accurately, my leg joints and muscles forgot how to act like shock absorbers. When I went back to using a saddle, it took almost two years for me to put stirrups back on. As I started riding other horses who moved and responded way different than mine, it became a bigger issue and my legs had to relearn. I also resented (and still do to this day) shortening my stirrups for jumping, I feel out of control and wobbly with a short leg. I’ve forgotten how to keep my center of gravity low with a short leg.

• I forgot how to sit evenly on a circle 20m or smaller.

• My body acclimated to my horse’s subtle unevenness, so forever after, being even feels strange, saddles that fit well and sit squarely feel odd and twisting to me.

• When the horse stumbles or throws a wonky move I tend to grasp with my legs and hands.

• I tend to roll my shoulders forward when things get fast, and my hands stay fixed when jumping - I never developed an auto release, and instead used to bridge my reins for balance when things got wild on the trails and/or over obstacles. Its a habit I can’t kick now. I also tended to want to ride with my hands in my lap, though years of carriage driving now has given me the opposite problem.

• Despite not being a big mover and extremely smooth ride, being truly through presented a much springier ride and active back muscles than my seat could manage bareback. When he was ever so slightly hollow, it made for a nice nest for my seat. Engaged over his back was like trying to ride two porpoises. So I encouraged the easier ride, allowing my horse to take the easy way out and fake his collection and engagement.

• I ruined every pair of jeans/breeches I owned through permanent dirt/sweat stains.

I would never take those years back though, I had so much fun.

My advice would be to make a note of what feels strange when you go back to using a saddle, and examine why.

[Abbie.S]

@CFFarm

I disagree. I’ve see more back problems with horses only ridden with saddle than ridden bareback or in treeless saddles. Most "research’ out there has been conducted by saddle makers. You are, of course entitled to your opinion.

https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/health-archive/the-biomechanics-of-riding-bareback-11762

“Only ridden with a saddle” is a pretty broad statement. If the saddle is not a good fit, it will of course cause more problems than if the horse is ridden without the saddle. I would dare say many riders do not pay as much attention to saddle fit as they should, hence the high rate of some level of back pain in many riding horses.

But if you look at the history of saddles, every civilization that’s put saddles on horses has had some kind of tree, and for good reason. When correctly fitted, they distribute weight over maximum surface area and they are much more forgiving of the rider. Yes, riding bareback puts you a lot closer to the horse so you can feel every movement, but guess what? The horse can feel YOUR every movement too…and the majority of riders don’t have the ability to sit perfectly balanced so as to not throw the horse off. A tree helps to compensate for this.

If anything, treeless saddles need even more attention to fit…no tree means no means to distribute weight, so the saddle relies on padding to create clearance off the spine and withers and get an appropriate fit. You also have to be very careful that the saddle’s stirrup bars and girth riggings do not place excess pressure on the horse’s back under those points. Many riders assume that a treeless saddle might provider a better fit for their hard-to-fit horses, but my experience has demonstrated the opposite: a hard to fit horse is a hard to fit horse; sometimes a treeless works, but in cases of horses with prominent spines or high withers or “A-frame” shaped backs, a treeless is more problematic.

Assessing saddle fit as a part of the greater picture when I’m working with horses and riders is part of what I do for a living. If I’ve learned anything, it’s that every horse is different and there are no cut and dried answers to saddle fitting.

http://www.equinews.com/article/bareback-riding-it-comfortable-your-horse
https://christinakeim.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/hilary-clayton-biomechanical-interactions-amongst-the-rider-the-tack-and-the-horse/ - this is an overview of a presentation given by Dr. Hilary Clayton, who is regarded as an expert in equine biomechanics and saddle fit
https://schleese.com/2016/05/16/treed-vs-treeless-saddles-part-iii/ - this is an excellent overview, IMO, although you may argue otherwise as you seemed to have discounted the research and opinions of saddle fitters…even though Jochen admits that saddle makers would love to have treeless/bareback universally accepted as those saddles and trees and cheaper and more efficient to manufacture.

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

I rode bareback most of my youth, except when in shows of course, and on Sunday afternoon drill team and for english lessons 2x a week and western lesson on Saturdays… Fat, sleek horses of mine, easy to hop on with just my hands on the withers and get my leg over without touching the rump. Wearing shorts in summer, easy to wash sweat and horse hair off my own legs when I hosed down my horses after riding. oh the good old days. Jumping and racing bareback was fun.

Now it’s a saddle, and had to move up from 2 step mounting block to 3 step mounting block 10 years or so ago. Old age!

Bareback riding on sleek horses was the best!