SPINOFF: Ground work. How to fix something you screwed up!

I loved reading the Brannamite thread on groundwork. Hopefully those more knowledgeable will lend me a hand. I have a wicked smart STB mare that I’ve been doing groundwork with and beginning work under saddle. My Achilles heel has been the leading-by exercise while standing on the fence.

The first few days I could not get my horse to line up horizontal. She’d want to put my head in my lap. So, I’d lead her by a few more times and she’d stop about three feet away from me. So, there I would sit tugging the rope, waiting for the slightest “try” I could reward. Hours. Weeks. Months passed…

The one day, she lined up with me. I quickly released and rewarded her. Of course, she was facing the wrong direction, but my newby self was just so pleased that I mounted her anyway. So, guess which direction she faces every time I do this so I can mount. My own fault, but now I have to fix this.

I have a bad hip and if I could just perfect this I’d be so happy. Could someone give me a step by step? I’m pretty left brained and having written directions seems to help.

No advice, just commiseration. On more than one occasion with my mule, I have had to put my face in my palm and mutter, “well crap,” after I realized that I had unintentionally taught him to do something I didn’t really want him to do. :slight_smile:

Take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Y9y7L9iY0 then, consider ordering the Spring 2013 Horseman’s Gazette from Eclectic Horseman, where the full video resides. I found this very helpful.

BTW, I am not affiliated with Eclectic Horseman in any way, just a very satisfied subscriber who has given copies to many friends who now also are happy subscribers.

[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;7376724]
No advice, just commiseration. On more than one occasion with my mule, I have had to put my face in my palm and mutter, “well crap,” after I realized that I had unintentionally taught him to do something I didn’t really want him to do. :)[/QUOTE]

Ain’t it great? And if your mule is anything like my horse, he’ll stand there and smile while begging for a cookie, too. Because, ya know, he just did what you asked

You mean, you sit at the fence and try to line up horse to get on through the lead line?

I understand, you have it, however, “wrong direction.” What does that mean? Your mare is positioned to get on from the right side vs. typical left side?

That would not be so bad. It is good to be able to get on from both sides. I practice it regularly (from fence and otherwise).

If this is all it, then I would back off a little.

When I first started to line up horse to get on from fence, I already had following down to the science:

I taught him to move one step at a time forward, back, sideways from the ground. Later, I added just to shift his weight without moving. Like, you shape the body with almost only your thought.

He can almost become like a playdough. If he has a resistance, I just wait, change little something, and get him mellow again, then proceed. You want them soft in their head, because then, they become soft/pliable in body.

One trick: when backing the horse, tip his head slightly to the diagonal you are going to use. It makes it easier for them to understand, what you want. (to the left, if left diagonal, ie. left front-right hind)

This moving one step at a time is very, very important for the entire education of the horse. It makes any future training much easier.

I started by using my hands, one on the halter, the other somewhat pointing/touching the leg I had on my mind, and being really close to him.

Then, as he learnt to feel of me, I used dressage whip and repeated.

Then, I did it only with rope using the end to point, if needed.

I also added wrapping rope around him and shifting or even turning him that way.

Then, I got little off the ground, like a small stool and repeated.

Eventually, I sat on the fence with a rope and a long dressage whip. For first couple of sessions, I also experimented with longe whip, as it is really long and I could used it as a very long hand and reach across him to get him closer.

Sometimes, he got wiggly and I had to get off the fence, reshape him to the place I needed him and get back on! What made that part working was the fact that he knew his “stand” command. He would not move and, if he did, I would just reshape again and say “stand” again.

It was definitely a process.

I also gave him a treat, once he lined up and I got on. Not earlier! So, now, he lines up really nicely. :slight_smile:

I posted on the other thread that I mostly abandoned the western/natural horsemanship schools, but it does not mean I left them altogether.

This one piece of advice, meaning “one step at a time,” I have from “True Horsemanship Through Feel.” It is a great book and, even without in-hand background, the more you deal with horses and practice, the more you get out of it.

If I am way off, please, let me know. I will take it down.

Good Luck! :slight_smile:

PS: You want to practice everything from both sides, but I am pretty sure, I don’t have to stress that.

[QUOTE=mrs.smith;7376745]
And if your mule is anything like my horse, he’ll stand there and smile while begging for a cookie, too. Because, ya know, he just did what you asked[/QUOTE]

Ahh, I see you’ve met my boy. :lol:

I would also like to point out, sometimes, I saw people having trouble with lining up horses close by, because they previously encouraged them to “stay out of their space.”

So, the horse stayed out, but it was too far for what the particular person wanted to do! :slight_smile:

I think, it is better to teach a horse to get closer/farther on command than to worry about the “space.”

I have to admit though, our horse has no boundaries, but is not dominant/aggressive, so, it is an easy approach with him.

He does not have boundaries with anybody! He shoves himself in everywhere and he lets anyone shove into him. He gets away with shoving in 90% of the time. I guess, other horses feel, he is just that friendly.

He has been that way since I have known him (3 years old) and the breeder said, it was his original temperament.

It is never a mistake to try to get another person to help a little.

Where I come from, we often worked in pairs. A lot of advanced in-hand work is actually difficult to do on your own.

Another person can be helping to shape her up from the other side. Then, add longe whip or dressage whip to reach over (advantage of longe whip is the additional rope on it). Then, remove person and keep the whip and lead rope. Then, just lead rope.

I’m short and lazy, so I train all horses I ride to line up the left stirrup with my foot while I’m standing on something. That can be a mounting block, the bumper of my truck, a sketchy, about-to-collapse rotting stump or whatever is handy. I’m still short and still lazy (and might have had to get off to pee on the trail), so the horse has to do it.

The way I was taught by a super-talented and non-famous cowboy was this:

You stand up on the mounting block with the horse tacked up using split reins. Or use a rope halter. Just have something long.

You ask the horse to come toward you and swing the rope or your whip at his outside hip in order to get him to swing it toward you.

He won’t. Instead, he’ll call his Union Rep and bitch about how Management is using a whip or swinging a rope, expecting Labor to move toward Management. That makes no sense. WTF!

Meh, a horse can figure it out. You harass the horse slowly, suddenly turning it all off when the horse is in the right spot. That’s right friends, the horse isn’t scared, but he might be annoyed and gets no reward until he is in the spot you want. Say “Whoa,” turn off the harassment and just stand there and pet him for a minute.

He has to stay standing still. If he moves, he gets chased again at the end of your rein or rope until he finds the only safe spot in the whole arena where it turns off… his body lined up where you want it.

Then lead him away, lead him back, get up on the block and ask him to line his body up with you again. You’ll be surprised how fast they figure it out, especially if you make a big deal about turning off the annoyance. Horses spend their time looking for that magic thing they can do that makes you chill.

Good news is: it’s a really easy fix. Pretty much addressed in the first 15 seconds and last 15 seconds of the video posted above.
Just keep asking until you get the response you want. Be consistent and reward when the horse gets it. Absolutely no reason why they can’t learn to line up on both sides. Key is to get the hindquarters to step under so that the horse is positioned for success to line up parallel to the fence.

Thank you all for breaking this down for me. I was making it WAY harder than it needed to be. :yes:

Just put the horse between the wall and the mounting block, they cannot swing away. All that other stuff just makes horses think about moving. Keep reins evenly held.

[QUOTE=ideayoda;7381521]
Just put the horse between the wall and the mounting block, they cannot swing away. All that other stuff just makes horses think about moving. Keep reins evenly held.[/QUOTE]

I have ridden some bad/damaged ones, so I disagree.

  1. A horse can think about moving any time. Putting a horse between my small body and a wall is no guarantee that the thought of escape won’t cross his mind. I did become the path of least resistance, however, if I just stood there being 5’1" and all but I hadn’t taught the horse to respect my space or better yet, how to Just Chill.

  2. I don’t think horses are naturally looking for reasons to move. That’s hard work and no rational being wants that. IME, all that moving stuff isn’t what’s being taught, rather, it’s what the horse has to do as he’s earning his way to belong allowed to stop. I think it’s a very common philosophy. I’m not the only one who sets things up so that the horse wants to stop, even though I did the chasing in the first place.

But YMMV. Do what works for you.

I have to second Mvp’s opinion about dangers of putting horse between a self/mounting block and a wall.

I think, one really needs to know their horse well and be very sure, that they can attempt it. Even then, accidents happen.

I am more of a proponent to always leave a space for horse to move, if possible, in case that feeling/surge comes into his mind/body.

Some horses are “busy bees” just like some people- constantly on the move, physically as well as mentally.

Our riding horse is quite nice and quieter with increasing age, but when he comes to the conclusion he needs to move, he needs to move. There is a point, beyond which, I can no longer just enforce “calm down” or “stand” cue (eg. sudden big startle).

I cannot restrict the movement, but I can channel it. For that, I need space.

If I tried to restrict the movement, or he would feel that there are outside obstacles restricting the movement, he would just lock his mind & blow up. This could probably include him barging through me (I do not know for sure, since I try not to put myself to that situation).

You can tell, I think a lot about safety, as I am getting older. :slight_smile: