Spinoff - how DO you stop an abuser??

[Callista17]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;8197227]
The abuse I HAVE witnessed - horses worked very violently, whips, spurs, worked into a heavy dripping lather - THEN tied up so high that their nose is straight in the air - no shade, 90+ degree day - with no water… [/QUOTE]

All happened when I was an older teen, but a well-known quarter horse trainer here would do that with sleazies on before shows…if my friend and I were at the barn, we’d untie their heads and let them drink.

A barn worker abused my horse, I did tell BO who first defended them, then when they confronted me, the BO happened to walk in and see them in my face about to punch me. It was my horse. The SPCA was called…Still have the pictures.

Then I was at an Arab show, saw the trainer whipping the horses hocks, so after getting further to the show ring, I loudly said by TD, " I can’t believe how hard so and so hit that grey horse in the hocks with the whip!!!"

All these were when I was young and “well known” trainers.

[MistyBlue]

If it’s blatant, violent abuse from someone who’s lost their temper?
Stop them with a heavy dose of hollering and shame.
“Hey! KNOCK IT OFF! Enough!”
Approach and, if necessary, remove whip.
The chances of a female swapping her attack to another human is extremely low. These morons prey on animals because the animal doesn’t say anything and rarely fights back. IOW, they’re cowards and bullies.
And even if they do swap their rage to ‘you’…it’s most likely going to be in the form of screaming, ranting and verbal abuse. That’s something almost anyone can take.
And rarer still, if they swing at you? I’d take a welt with a whip and/or a girly smack for the well being of an abused animal.

IMO (and my opinion might not be the popular one or the common one) way too many people look the other way during these issues, but gain all sorts of chutzpah afterwards.
It’s not only allowing, but passively assisting asshats to be animal abusers.
I’d have the same reaction to child, elderly or any other type of abuse.
Most of the time the abuser backs down in the face of challenge. I’m usually willing to take those odds as opposed to hand wringing or allowing abuse to continue while waiting for someone else to come stop it.
And if necessary or for some help/back up…I’ll attempt to convince the audience to stop pretending their hands and mouths are only painted on.

[FineAlready]

I think it depends on the situation and each individual’s personality. I did witness someone beating their horse in its stall with a dressage whip after (apparently) having a bad ride. My own horse was cross tied in the aisle and started freaking out during the beating. I got my horse off the ties, tossed him in a stall, then went down to the stall where the horse was being beaten and said, “THAT’S ENOUGH.” The person did stop, and then stormed off, leaving her sweaty upset horse in the stall.

[st_francis]

I don’t think you place yourself I any danger by saying something, from as far away as you feel comfortable. "Hey, cut that out! Quit beating that horse! " And then run around d yelling for help at the top of your lungs, if you have to.

[Appsolute]

Just adding to this - again, go ahead and call the authorities - but really, don’t expect them to do much. Unfortunately stopping abusers is VERY difficult. Sure you can stop them mid act - but it doesn’t mean that they won’t do it again.

Look at the “Jeromy Mixon & Brad Stewart in Millerton” situation. These men hog tied a horse, stood on it, and whipped it! And then posted pictures of the abuse on facebook!

https://www.facebook.com/Horseharslytrained?fref=nf

DOES THIS LOOK LIKE ACCEPTABLE HORSE TRAINING? (yes, those are big spurs aimed at the horse’s neck)

HOW ABOUT THIS? (“trainer” notes that the horse is “learning manners”)

Maybe these guys could pick on someone their own size…

Wanna guess what the “authorities” did to protect these animals after MUCH pressure from the public?

The DA declined to press any charges… Apparently this type of “training” is acceptable in Oklahoma.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

@MistyBlue;8197256

If it’s blatant, violent abuse from someone who’s lost their temper?
Stop them with a heavy dose of hollering and shame.
“Hey! KNOCK IT OFF! Enough!”
Approach and, if necessary, remove whip.
The chances of a female swapping her attack to another human is extremely low. These morons prey on animals because the animal doesn’t say anything and rarely fights back. IOW, they’re cowards and bullies.
And even if they do swap their rage to ‘you’…it’s most likely going to be in the form of screaming, ranting and verbal abuse. That’s something almost anyone can take.
And rarer still, if they swing at you? I’d take a welt with a whip and/or a girly smack for the well being of an abused animal.

:yes: Me, too. I mean, we regularly climb onto half-ton flight animals for fun. We can’t really be that risk-averse, can we?

I hope I’d holler at somebody first. Physical violence kind of trips my trigger, though. When I was younger I remember I’d get so mad my throat would close up so I couldn’t say anything and I’d just charge in swinging whatever was handy. Hasn’t happened in enough years now that I don’t know. I might have the self-control now to say something first and see if that would resolve the situation. Or maybe not.

[CHT]

I actually think videoing does more long term help than calling the authorities if you can only do one of the two. Better to out them to the public, than to hope that the weak humane laws actually do anything.

The only time I have ever witnessed obvious abuse was a farrier at my barn. I was teaching in the indoor and the HO was holding her horse for her farrier (Not the barn farrier). She wanted shoes on the horse’s hinds. The horse did not want shoes. I could hear all sorts of yelling from the arena, and found them shanking the horse. I told them to let the horse calm down, and if they wanted, we could give him some tranq, but that they couldn’t keep making that much of a fuss in the barn. Not 5 minutes later they have a lip chain in his mouth, and are smacking him with a rasp. That was IT. Farrier was quickly evicted. (when I told him to get his ass out of the barn, he THREW the horse shoe at the barn door).

Found out later the farrier had some issues with drugs.

Horse was fine for the barn farrier. This was not the horse’s fault.

I think I felt comfortable confronting the person (and the owner) as I was in a position of authority. The right thing for a boarder/student would likely have been to come and get me.

[Stefon]

For my job with kids, I’m a mandated reporter. I always learned I was speaking for those who could not, and have reported child abuse. Animals obviously can’t advocate for themselves; it is up to us to do it for them.
I’ve never been in an animal abuse situation, but I would first call 911, yell loudly at the abuser to stop and for others around to witness, then if needed still confront the abuser. Hopefully thinking of a way for the horse to kick the mfer in the face, because karma. I’m only 5 feet tall but would intervene if necessary.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

I would not be afraid to confront someone severely abusing an animal like that. I do not think the abuser would even think of, for example, turning the whip (or any other weapon) on me, especially with witnesses. They think it’s somehow OK/acceptable to beat a horse, but that doesn’t mean they would think it’s OK to come to fisticuffs with another person.

I would confront … it may not be pretty, I would probably cry, my voice would probably go all high-pitched, and I may not be taken seriously, but I would try.

The situations that I find difficult are those gray areas of abusive training, like overflexion, overworking a lame horse, yanking on the mouth as a punishment, etc.

[Abbie.S]

This is where it helps to develop a pretty good “bark”…:yes::winkgrin:

If you can develop enough of a tough veneer that a sharp “HEY, KNOCK IT OFF” stops someone, even for a moment, that’s usually enough time to physically intervene if you have to, by grabbing the reins, the whip, etc.

As for what I would have done, it’s hard to say. I’ve barked at a person before, for hitting her pony repeatedly with a dressage whip when she wouldn’t go forward past a spooky object, but this was a teenager. It’s harder for many people to get that “in your face” with someone who has unspoken authority or power, such as a trainer, BM, BO, etc.

I think I’d have the cajones to bark pretty nastily at that person. Depending on the situation, I might physically intervene. But you have to remember that a horse that’s in that kind of state might easily hurt YOU, even if you’re trying to help. Not worth the risk.

[kdow]

I’m not sure if in the moment I’d feel safe confronting - it’d depend a lot. I have no experience with physical fights, so I would very much not want to end up in that sort of situation because I’d probably get myself beaten up and be no use to the animal if it needed care after the abuse was stopped.

I can more readily see myself yelling at someone to stop and if they didn’t, then saying “I’m calling the police” and doing so, probably while also recording events. Probably if I had more experience or self-defense training or something, I’d feel more confident about actually closing in on someone who MIGHT become violent towards me. (Some people are crazy.)

[kdow]

@Abbie.S;8197384

This is where it helps to develop a pretty good “bark”…:yes::winkgrin:

If you can develop enough of a tough veneer that a sharp “HEY, KNOCK IT OFF” stops someone, even for a moment, that’s usually enough time to physically intervene if you have to, by grabbing the reins, the whip, etc.

Yes, this. It’s what I call the Dog Voice Of God and works pretty impressively on people, too. Generally it’s enough to get them to pause unconsciously for a moment in whatever they’re doing, which can be all you need, depending on the situation.

It is something a lot of people need to practice, though, especially women, because GENERALLY women’s voices go higher when they’re stressed or upset, and you need to train yourself not to do that. It’s not even quite yelling - it’s more like a very firm deepish speaking voice with a LOT of projection added, like you’d use on stage?

[MistyBlue]

It’s the same voice used on:
horses in your space, on your feet, to get their attention
dogs getting into something, too focused on something they shouldn’t be, sled teams
Teens playing earsplitting music
Snoring husband
A friend’s attention at a loud party
To give last call at a bar
To change the mind of a overly nosy coyote or territorial buck

Deep, forceful, direct and abrupt.

[shiloh]

Just a note to all those who say call 911 - make yourself aware of your area’s LE agency response. Not how fast will they come, but will they respond at all.
In my area I have dealt with nearly all agencies in both counties and several agencies in neighboring counties and nearly uniformly they refused to respond. I actually had a dispatcher from a large metropolitan agency hang up on me after telling me to call the Humane Society. And even the Humane Society in the last county I lived in would drag their heels. In my current county we have no humane society and Animal Control is on duty for four hours a day four days a week - no weekends. :eek::no:

Found out what resources are available to you and what they will do. You may never need them - pray god you won’t - but if you do, you will know what to expect.

[shiloh]

[QUOTE=kdow;8197394]
Yes, this. It’s what I call the Dog Voice Of God and works pretty impressively on people, too. Generally it’s enough to get them to pause unconsciously for a moment in whatever they’re doing, which can be all you need, depending on the situation.

It is something a lot of people need to practice, though, especially women, because GENERALLY women’s voices go higher when they’re stressed or upset, and you need to train yourself not to do that. It’s not even quite yelling - it’s more like a very firm deepish speaking voice with a LOT of projection added, like you’d use on stage?[/QUOTE]

Yes - I call this The Voice of Zul. (Remember in Ghostbusters where she opens the fridge and the demon is in there and says “Zul” at her? HIS voice…:yes::lol:

[Guilherme]

Most of us carry a smart phone nowadays. Get that sucker out, start rolling, and then start talking. If you’re lucky and you’ve got bystanders get them all rolling. If you’re at a show send one bystander to get a steward or what ever passes for one. If things really start to get ugly call 911 and don’t report the abuse but rather report a loud dispute that looks like it will turn violent. That will draw an officer pretty quickly.

Somebody who engages in this type of behavior has “lost it” and, male or female, there is a not inconsiderable chance that they will likely respond violently to anyone who interferes with them. This risk is real; the more witnesses there are the smaller this risk will become actual.

G.

[roseymare]

I do think it is possible for someone to lose their temper only one time.
Not saying this is true in this case nor would it be a reason to overlook abuse.
And these instances are probably uncommon but also probably ones were a stern voice is enough to stop the situation.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

As I’ve had to do it before, I know precisely how I’d respond: I’D BLOODY WELL STOP THEM.

I was at a 4-H show when I was about 15. A father had just bought his young (7-ish) daughter a new barrel horse. All this horse knew was to run the pattern. The second the gate shut, he ran, but this arena was quite a bit smaller than most, and he was so flat-out coming home that he couldn’t get stopped and hit the fence. The girl went off over his head. She wasn’t hurt, but the father dragged that horse out to the trailer, tied it off so tight it couldn’t move its head, and started to beat the living crap out of it with a tightly rolled bunch of wire.

My friend and I were still in our breeches and tall boots from our hunter classes - and we grabbed our crops and RAN, screaming, brandishing those whips over our heads. Let’s just say that was one scared cowboy. He untied the horse and shoved him in the trailer without even untacking him. But I shudder to think what he did to that poor horse when he got it home. This was before anyone would call the police on someone for abuse, sadly, and we got an earful for doing it, but I don’t regret doing it for a second, and they sold the horse soon after. Hopefully it ended up in better hands.

We also had a pregnant mare once (not mine, my sister was leasing her), who was getting hooves trimmed. The farrier they got wasn’t happy with how she was fidgeting, and jabbed the sharp end of the hoof rasp right into her stomach. Mind you, this mare was almost full term. Events are jumbled, but it involved me grabbing the rasp out of his hand and my sister all but stuffing him back in his truck. His rasp is still around here somewhere . . .

No. For abuse like that to go on for 30 minutes and no one - NO ONE - does a damn thing is inexcusable and unconscionable.

[DancingArabian]

I would have called the cops and intervened. I’ve done it before and would do it again.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=SoMuchToLearn;8196688]
]

There was a recent case of rather severe treatment of a horse where I board and I saw pictures of the aftermath, but nobody felt they had the authority to stop it while it was in progress. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

The authority ??

H/J trainer John Madden commented at judge’s meeting a few years ago that “We are the lawyers for the horses.”

Keep that in mind the next time you wonder if you have any authority to defend a horse and relieve his pain.