Spinoff - how DO you stop an abuser??

[SoMuchToLearn]

I’m referring to this thread in the Off Topic forum: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?469505-Has-anyone-in-upstate-NY-heard-of-this

There was a recent case of rather severe treatment of a horse where I board and I saw pictures of the aftermath, but nobody felt they had the authority to stop it while it was in progress. The “trainer” had brought a lot of business to the barn and long-time boarders have been feeling like their opinions don’t mean diddly and didn’t dare intervene, they wouldn’t have been backed up.

I honestly don’t know what I would have done had I been there. I avoid conflict and confrontation at all cost. I guess may have cowardly resorted to video and pictures to out them online later. For sure, that doesn’t help the horse while he’s being attacked, but it could hopefully have an effect on the abuser’s livelihood. The particular trainer at my barn would have, I’m sure, threatened a lawsuit and I don’t know what the laws are, but jeeze… video of the woman being outed on FB surely couldn’t be construed as being taken out of context, right??

What would you do? I mean seriously think about this, don’t spout off about how fearless YOU would have been standing up to her… what would you do if you heard this commotion going on and you went and looked and saw Hayley Sauberan beating this horse??

[charismaryllis]

grab the phone and call the police/local animal control.

[TBROCKS]

If I was there and witnessed it, and if it was as bad as it’s being portrayed, I would have called the cops. No way would I confront some crazed lunatic with a whip, but I would have gotten law enforcement involved, right then.

[SoMuchToLearn]

Oh, wow, that never even occurred to me!
Ok, now you’ve called the cops. It’s going to be awhile before they show up and the abuse may or may not have stopped. If it has, now what? What if you board your horse there and interact with this “trainer”? Are you still brave enough to explain to the police why you called them? And confront the trainer knowing he/she could retaliate? By the time the cops arrive, trainer could be onto some other task and shrugged off the beating as a run-of-the-mill CTJ event (I have the case that occurred where I board in the back of my mind here. I don’t believe it lasted more than 5 min, but the horse’s gums were red and purple for days and his mouth was split open. No way the barn owner would kick him out, though, too much money to lose).

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

I would like to say I’d have called the police.

Probably, though, I’d have jumped in it and striped her butt like that she did that horse’s. And I would now be in a cell waiting to hear that my law license is suspended. Or maybe in a hospital but I’d hope I’d have company.

I have way too many generations of redneck in me to be able to sit and watch something like that happen.

[4THEHORSES]

I think I’d call the cops and if possible grab the horse and remove it form the situation.

Even if the abuse has stopped when the cops arrive at least you have a witness and evidence in term of any injuries to the horse. It may also encourage others to come forward and speak to law enforcement.

[atlatl]

I second call the cops.

I once witnessed a scene where a very large man was literally kicking the living daylights out of a smaller man who was on the ground with a woman standing over him trying to shield him from the larger guy. I also saw a friend’s husband, not a big guy, had pulled over and was standing out of his car “witnessing” the situation. I called the police and was told that they were already on the way to the scene. Do I judge my friend’s husband, also an attorney, for not jumping into a situation with a raging huge guy; no I do not.

In short, evaluate your own safety before engaging.

[ChocoMare]

You STOP them and call 911.

I was only 17, a barn worker/grunt at a big show barn on Long Island (80’s, before cell phones). I had watched their barn farrier be rough with their horses before and informed the manager. Nothing happened cuz they figured I was just the dumb kid. UNTIL…

Blueberry, a cute blue roan pony, was having new shoes put on and was a bit grumpy. The farrier began to hit him with the rasp and kick him repeatedly in the belly with his steel-toe boots. I ran down the aisle screaming at him to STOP IT, STOP IT NOW! And laid him out: If I EVER see you doing that again, I will beat you where you stand. At that moment, the owner came around the corner (obviously heard my screaming) and fired him on the spot.

Stand up for what’s right. Confront!

[emipou]

If it’s too scary/intimidating to go directly to this person, or if they don’t listen- VIDEO and POLICE.

Just curious… is there video floating around? OP mentioned video but I haven’t seen any video links anywhere. Not sure if I actually want to watch it, but am curious.

[shamrock]

Pics on Fugly http://fuglyblog.com/. Disgraceful. Poor mare. :no:

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=SoMuchToLearn;8196688]
I’m referring to this thread in the Off Topic forum: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?469505-Has-anyone-in-upstate-NY-heard-of-this

There was a recent case of rather severe treatment of a horse where I board and I saw pictures of the aftermath, but nobody felt they had the authority to stop it while it was in progress. The “trainer” had brought a lot of business to the barn and long-time boarders have been feeling like their opinions don’t mean diddly and didn’t dare intervene, they wouldn’t have been backed up.

I honestly don’t know what I would have done had I been there. I avoid conflict and confrontation at all cost. I guess may have cowardly resorted to video and pictures to out them online later. For sure, that doesn’t help the horse while he’s being attacked, but it could hopefully have an effect on the abuser’s livelihood. The particular trainer at my barn would have, I’m sure, threatened a lawsuit and I don’t know what the laws are, but jeeze… video of the woman being outed on FB surely couldn’t be construed as being taken out of context, right??

What would you do? I mean seriously think about this, don’t spout off about how fearless YOU would have been standing up to her… what would you do if you heard this commotion going on and you went and looked and saw Hayley Sauberan beating this horse??[/QUOTE]

Well, I’ve been known to wade right into the middle of the scene and tell the perp to knock it TF off, making enough noise in the process for the show steward and the proprietor of the farm to arrive for backup. The cretin in question was beating a little QH mare onto a visibly unsafe trailer with a rotted-out floor. Said asshat was ordered by farm manager to go home and get a different trailer, and mare then loaded without further nastiness.

If you’re in a place like a show or a barn with a lot of people around, the direct challenge is likeliest to stop the behavior cold at that moment. However, I’ll admit it helps to have a certain amount of “authoritative presence.”

[shiloh]

I will not stand by and watch something like this happen. I would first go over and very loudly and firmly, forcefully demand that abuser stop. Failing that, I’m going to use whatever physical force to remove whip or whatever from their hand or get animal away from them. But that’s me and I don’t recommend this approach for anyone else.

I had a shoer working on my first horse. She had arthritis in her hind end and it was difficult to hold her legs up for extended periods of time. Well, this guy kept cranking her leg up and up while she was politely trying to tell him she was uncomfortable. I kept telling him to put her leg down because she was uncomfortable and also because he was hurting her. He refused, I kept getting louder, mare is nearly falling over, I finally shouted (and I can get LOUD) at him to put her leg down this instant and get off the property RIGHT THIS MINUTE OR BETTER because if he did not I was going to pick him and his truck and all his s**t up and throw him off. He looked at me and I think he realized that I was just angry enough to probably follow through. His last words: “What about my -” “Don’t even think about me paying you - get out!” asshat…

[candyappy]

[QUOTE=SoMuchToLearn;8196688]

What would you do? I mean seriously think about this, don’t spout off about how fearless YOU would have been standing up to her… what would you do if you heard this commotion going on and you went and looked and saw Hayley Sauberan beating this horse??[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I know how I would hope to react, but in most cases we never know what we will do unless we are in that situation. I don’t have a cell, and I don’t see how I could stand by and watch for 30 minutes without doing something to stop it.

[bear_necessities]

[QUOTE=ChocoMare;8196767]
You STOP them and call 911.

I was only 17, a barn worker/grunt at a big show barn on Long Island (80’s, before cell phones). I had watched their barn farrier be rough with their horses before and informed the manager. Nothing happened cuz they figured I was just the dumb kid. UNTIL…

Blueberry, a cute blue roan pony, was having new shoes put on and was a bit grumpy. The farrier began to hit him with the rasp and kick him repeatedly in the belly with his steel-toe boots. I ran down the aisle screaming at him to STOP IT, STOP IT NOW! And laid him out: If I EVER see you doing that again, I will beat you where you stand. At that moment, the owner came around the corner (obviously heard my screaming) and fired him on the spot.

Stand up for what’s right. Confront![/QUOTE]

Good for you! I had that happen with my horse, a new BM came on the scene and switched the barn over to her farrier. My guy only has front shoes, a cut and dry job, nothing special, so I think okay, it is what it is. It would have cost me way too much $ to keep the old farrier around to do just one horse.

Bear is so laid back, he falls asleep in the crossties getting his feet done. I miss the first appointment with the new farrier, but did make it to the second one. As soon as Bear moved a muscle the farrier was on him like white on rice! Very rough and gruff with him right off the bat. I was all :eek: and said he barely moved! The next time Bear swished his tail the guy wailed on him with his rasp in the belly. I said OKAY. You can finish up my horse and then please take me off your client list. I’m sorry but it’s not okay to treat him like that, I hate to see what you do to the horses that ACTUALLY miss-behave! I was so horrified.

I paid the extra cash to have his old farrier back and Bear was afraid of him! I couldn’t believe it. I felt terrible. Luckily, he was a very patient, quiet man and worked slowly with him. I was moving back home anyway so he only had a couple more appointments at that barn.

When I moved home I searched high and low for a woman farrier, found her and Bear loves her to death.

It really shows how quickly one person can change a horse’s nature. (That farrier was also very short, he definitely had Napolean Complex…) I think my horse would be okay with a male farrier now after so many years but I just couldn’t believe how that man acted towards my sweet, gentle horse. It still makes me angry just thinking about it!

[Marla_100]

From past experiences I have learned to immediately confront and halt any abuse of helpless animals or small children. If I need to be physical to do so I will do it. Fortunately I have Never , ever been challenged once the abuser knows I mean busines. I have an internal “hot button” for bullying abusers.
Then if necessary, I would call 911.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

[QUOTE=Marla 100;8197148]
From past experiences I have learned to immediately confront and halt any abuse of helpless animals or small children. If I need to be physical to do so I will do it. Fortunately I have Never , ever been challenged once the abuser knows I mean busines. I have an internal “hot button” for bullying abusers.
Then if necessary, I would call 911.[/QUOTE]

In my experience, it’s amazing how quickly most bullies will back off if s/he thinks s/he’s the one about to get hurt. But if not - heck, what’s more fun that whaling on a bully?

[toady123]

Putting yourself in the path of an abuser puts you in danger (particularly if the person is not known to you). If you have serious concerns, call the authorities (or the show steward, or the BO, or whatever) and collect evidence (at a distance).

While there are certainly people who would put themselves in harms way, this is not something I would actually recommend or advocate to anther individual.

[Appsolute]

I think it is often easier said than done.

Thankfully I have never directly witnessed abuse like the OP described, I would like to think I would have said something to stop it if I did - but the heat of the situation can make things tricky.

As for calling the cops / animal control - yes that is a good idea, but don’t expect them to actually DO anything.

The abuse I HAVE witnessed - horses worked very violently, whips, spurs, worked into a heavy dripping lather - THEN tied up so high that their nose is straight in the air - no shade, 90+ degree day - with no water… You BET I called Animal Control - on several occasions, as this would happen repeatedly.

The first time they went out and “checked” - follow up calls? I was told “that is how they train their horses” (charro - Mexican “trainers”) and that nothing could be done.

Private property - can’t go in and stop them myself, and I would be scared for my safety if I did so (seemed like violent types - had birds that appeared to be for cock fighting).

[jawa]

I think I would intervene. Why? 2 situations in the past have proved I can’t stand by and NOT help those that are being abused.

1. An older lady lived in a 10x30 shack next to my small house in a quiet neighborhood. She had a grand-niece and her SO move in. One night the SO started BEATING on the grand-niece in the “house” and then into the yard. I came out and yelled he’d better stop, while I was calling 911 from my front porch. Grand-niece sat on the front porch until the police arrived.

2. A lady boarding at the same co-op barn I was in had an appointment with a new farrier. The horse was REALLY sore on one front foot. I happened to be present during the shoeing. He pulled and trimmed each hoof before putting new shoes on any hoof. While he was trying to trim the non-sore front (after removing the shoe and trimming the sore front) the mare became less than co-operative. The farrier started beating on the mare because she wouldn’t keep her hoof on the stand. He repeated the process. The mare’s owner stood by and was visibly distressed,but SAID nothing. I took the lead rope out of his hands and told him he needed to find a different way to get the job done or leave, and that the mare was obviously sore (reason for farrier visit) so give the mare some breaks from the stand, OR put a shoe on the SORE foot before finishing with the not sore one. He put a new shoe on the sore foot and the mare was able to stand for the shoe to be put on the non-sore foot. After the fact the owner thanked me. She didn’t use him as a farrier again.

[2WBs1TB]

A bullet.

They will never stop abusing otherwise. They just learn to hide it better. :mad: