Spinoff - How much does it cost to send a competent rider/horse to Rolex?

[J-Lu]

I KNOW it’s variable, so I’m looking for generalizations. I’m pretty aware of how much it costs to send a dressage rider to the top of the sport, I’m curious about eventing.

Lets just say that I, a multi multi-millionaire, wanted to send my favorite and very capable eventing trainer to Rolex (and give her a shot at placing well). Lets say that said trainer is perfectly capable of riding the course, but lacks a horse of that caliber.

IN GENERAL, how much would it cost to procure a Rolex-worthy horse and campaign said trainer to give them the experience and qualifications to run around Rolex? What would this entail in an ideal world? How long might the process generally take? How much money are we looking at? (Lets ignore the possibility of lameness/injury getting in the way).

Thanks for playing!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Depends on the horse that you buy and where you are located (costs of travel)…and how good is your rider (and capable of learning, type of help they get)…some never get to that level.

30-50K per year on the low side (for each year it takes to get them to the level…most take 3-5 years on a horse going Prelim…add a few more years if starting greener horse…add several more years for greener rider) plus purchase price of horse.

But you easily could spend more…purchase price of horse depends on its level and its quality and a lot of other factors.

[Romany]

One of the more successful horses at Rolex 2016 was a $750 OTTB from Canter Illinois. So you don’t always have to spend big $$$ for a good horse!

[findeight]

Question was ballpark costs to get a horse and rider to Rolex, not what it would it would cost to buy a **** prospect. Whatever you pay for it is in addition to 30-50k a year housing, training competing for several years in hopes it might get there. Don’t you have to prove a certain level of competence to run in it? Can’t just show up and run?

Sometimes a cheap purchase ends up costing more then the more costly, already well started and more proven prospects closer to the goal.

[Highflyer]

If the rider is qualified (which only a handful are) and the horse is very experienced at the *** level and/ or has run successfully at the **** level, they might be able to do it with minimal time invested (I think both Karen O’Connor and Philip Dutton did with Mr. Edicott for example, and Boyd did with Shamwari.). But you pay more up front especially if you want the horse to be competitive. A local horse who had jumped clear around xc twice but wasn’t competitive in the dressage or show jumping went for mid five figures recently. A top ten caliber horse might cost ten times that.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=findeight;8647570]
Question was ballpark costs to get a horse and rider to Rolex, not what it would it would cost to buy a **** prospect. Whatever you pay for it is in addition to 30-50k a year housing, training competing for several years in hopes it might get there. Don’t you have to prove a certain level of competence to run in it? Can’t just show up and run?

Sometimes a cheap purchase ends up costing more then the more costly, already well started and more proven prospects closer to the goal.[/QUOTE]

yes exactly. My 30-50K was just a ball park of the costs of campaigning a horse a year to get to Rolex…and NOT including the purchase price.

It could also easily cost more depending on location and how much help the rider needs.

The cost of the horse…that is a whole different story…plus the fact that you just may not get there…either because of the horse and/or rider. There are many who head down the road to be a 4* rider, and not many that make it…and it can’t take a lot longer than anticipated. There are always exceptions to the rule though…but OP asked for a ball park.

And how long it will take to get there is a very different story. It can take 5 years…or 15…or never. If a rider has not ridden Advanced…it will take at least a couple of years even IF they buy a going 4* horse…and even then NO guarantee. Most do better on a horse they produce up the levels themselves…much more so than GP dressage.

[J-Lu]

Thanks, everyone!

Let me clarify: I posted this with a couple of riders in mind.

One is Allison Springer. She clearly has the skills to navigate Rolex. The conversation on the Rolex thread suggested that some think/thought that she should put her time/effort into another horse. So it made me wonder…lets say I wanted to sponsor her and put a horse under her that can take her around Rolex. Lets say I purchased a horse who appeared to have the quality to do this so was maybe one or two star quality already. At least. She’d need time to get to know the horse, and campaign it to qualify. There would be significant travel and I don’t know if she’d charge me for training/time away from her business. Would she need to go overseas in order to gain the skills to be in the top 5 with a new horse? So, if I pretended to be Jaqueline Mars, how much would a horse like this cost, and how much would it take each year…and reasonably how long, to produce a solid Rolex round?

I know that anything can happen, including lameness and injury.

I suspect the $30-50K is quite accurate, sans cost of horse.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=J-Lu;8647706]

I suspect the $30-50K is quite accurate, sans cost of horse.[/QUOTE]

Comes from personal experience.

Can it be done cheaper…of course. But not by much when you add it all up.

Most syndicates budget at least that amount per year. Most Pro event riders do not charge you for training on a 2*+ horse if you are covering all expenses or if they have some ownership interest in the horse.

[monstrpony]

Didn’t Allison buy, or coordinate the purchase of, a very promising younger horse from across the pond a couple of years ago, and it became ill and had to be put down? That left her with no choice but to carry on with Arthur. I suspect that very unfortunate experience tapped out her supporters to a degree, at least in the short term. It’s not that she’s never had support, just that it’s limited compared to some other riders, and she had rotten luck with it.

[faybe]

[QUOTE=Romany;8647538]
One of the more successful horses at Rolex 2016 was a $750 OTTB from Canter Illinois. So you don’t always have to spend big $$$ for a good horse![/QUOTE]

But the purchase price of the horse is the cheapest part of the whole equation. My husband made it to the CCI*** on a horse he paid $1 for… and then sank 25k/year into competing and maintaining at that level. If he’d made it to a 4*, the Rolex entry would have been the cheapest bit of the whole ordeal.

[OverandOnward]

If you are really, really, really serious about being at Rolex as an Owner :), you have to decide when you want to be there. Buy a high-dollar almost-there horse and it will happen sooner and more certainly.

But if starting with a 1* horse, buy two or three. Some are not going to make it. :winkgrin:

One of the things that is hard for riders who are depending on just one horse is the high risk of all the investment and time, only to have an injury sideline the horse just before the event. Re Jennie Brannigan and Cambalda - and so many others over the years. 4*'s are so demanding that something rather small can take them out of the running. A back-up is a good thing to have. That is what keeps the AN’s, WFP’s, PD’s, Boyd’s, etc. out on course, every year.

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=J-Lu;8647706]
Thanks, everyone!

Let me clarify: I posted this with a couple of riders in mind.

One is Allison Springer. She clearly has the skills to navigate Rolex. The conversation on the Rolex thread suggested that some think/thought that she should put her time/effort into another horse. So it made me wonder…lets say I wanted to sponsor her and put a horse under her that can take her around Rolex. Lets say I purchased a horse who appeared to have the quality to do this so was maybe one or two star quality already. At least. She’d need time to get to know the horse, and campaign it to qualify. There would be significant travel and I don’t know if she’d charge me for training/time away from her business. Would she need to go overseas in order to gain the skills to be in the top 5 with a new horse? So, if I pretended to be Jaqueline Mars, how much would a horse like this cost, and how much would it take each year…and reasonably how long, to produce a solid Rolex round?

I know that anything can happen, including lameness and injury.

I suspect the $30-50K is quite accurate, sans cost of horse.[/QUOTE]

I am not really into eventing, but if I sum up the data, which I know about. I dont think its that easy. The more succesful riders develope their own horses. And I think nearly all of them. I dont know too many sucessful horse rider teams which were just bought. If I look at my nephew he got all his horses as young horses.
So you would have to be pretty patient, because you would need to buy some promising youngsters and invest a lot of time and money to develope your rider and the horses…
I dont think buying an amazing horse in eventing works… But I might be wrong.

[Highflyer]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8647865]
I am not really into eventing, but if I sum up the data, which I know about. I dont think its that easy. The more succesful riders develope their own horses. And I think nearly all of them. I dont know too many sucessful horse rider teams which were just bought. If I look at my nephew he got all his horses as young horses.
So you would have to be pretty patient, because you would need to buy some promising youngsters and invest a lot of time and money to develope your rider and the horses…
I dont think buying an amazing horse in eventing works… But I might be wrong.[/QUOTE]

It does happen, although it isn’t the norm. Karen O’Connor competed Veronica through at least the *** level (IIRC they went to Rolex but didn’t get around) before she got hurt and Lauren got the ride. Mr. Medicott was an Olympic horse before Karen got him and then went on to do Rolex with Philip Dutton. Shamwari had been to the Olympics for Sweden? before Boyd got him.

But there just aren’t that many **** horses out there, and even fewer that are for sale-- at any price.

[vineyridge]

I think the overall tendency is for British and American riders to get horses who are showing talent at the 2* level. It’s much rarer to make a horse from scratch. That’s why all the Fernhill and Cooley horses–they’ve almost all gone at least 1*, but many others like Winsome Adante have done 2*s. WFP rarely makes his horses from scratch; AN almost always does. If you do buy a horse who hasn’t done much eventing, you’re better off with Lauren Kieffer/ Becky Holder/Kim Severson types who do make horses from early on, although I know KS buys Cooley and Fernhill horses. Mostly, though, UL riders here buy almost made horses and finish them off.

Harry Meade has an H&H VIP article criticizing the new proposed FEI rule that will require that a pair complete a 3CCI together in order to run a 4. He says it will stop catch riding, which it will, but it will also change training schedules and purchase timings since 3*CCIs are scarce as hen’s teeth.

Offhand I would guess that it could easily cost 250k to get a talented young prospect and get it to Rolex. That’s 100k for a going 2* horse, plus four years to get to Rolex.

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8647865]
I am not really into eventing, but if I sum up the data, which I know about. I dont think its that easy. The more succesful riders develope their own horses. And I think nearly all of them. I dont know too many sucessful horse rider teams which were just bought. If I look at my nephew he got all his horses as young horses.
So you would have to be pretty patient, because you would need to buy some promising youngsters and invest a lot of time and money to develope your rider and the horses…
I dont think buying an amazing horse in eventing works… But I might be wrong.[/QUOTE]

No, they don’t, not any more. The top tier in eventing buy horses proven at 2* and even 3*. It is too long and too iffy to bring them along from so far back, and depend on that for a 4* horse. Some do certainly bring horses along, but those showing up every year with 2-3 entries are buying more horses than they are making.

Actually, the syndicates are doing the buying and footing some or all of the expense. I suspect most pros don’t have the cost of a ready 2* or 3* horse.

[531]

I know of one rider who was in that situation a few years ago, promising horse was purchased, and they aimed, and got to Rolex, more than once, as well as a few other notable venues. That rider’s annual operating budget was $100K.

[peedin]

[QUOTE=Romany;8647538]
One of the more successful horses at Rolex 2016 was a $750 OTTB from Canter Illinois. So you don’t always have to spend big $$$ for a good horse![/QUOTE]

This is the exception rather than the rule nowadays. In the good old days lots of great horses came off the track. That’s not true now.

What horse came from Canter Illinois?

[Bensmom]

It does happen, although it isn’t the norm. Karen O’Connor competed Veronica through at least the *** level (IIRC they went to Rolex but didn’t get around) before she got hurt and Lauren got the ride.

Fwiw, Lauren actually had the ride on Veronica before Karen. Scott Keach brought her up to Prelim and sent her to Lauren to be sold. Lauren competed her once, then broke her arm and Karen took over the ride on her, and then Team Rebecca bought her for Karen to ride. Lauren got her back when Karen was injured. She and Veronica get on quite well together, and she rode her a good bit even when Karen was competing her.

Watching Lauren bring along young horses and now, with Landmark’s Monte Carlo, take them all the way to 4* level is pretty cool.

But, certainly, it isn’t the fastest way to get to Rolex.

What horse came from Canter Illinois?

A.P. Prime, with Leah Lang-Gluscic

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=peedin;8648342]
This is the exception rather than the rule nowadays. In the good old days lots of great horses came off the track. That’s not true now.

What horse came from Canter Illinois?[/QUOTE]

Not really. There were I believe 6 OTTBs in the top 20 at Rolex. Blackfoot Mystery came off the track and I believe was the highest placed OTTB this year.

Most OTTBs will run 1200-4500 coming off the track. So yes, a 750 one is on the cheap side but certainly not that unusual.

What is unusual with AP Prime is how quickly his rookie 4* rider got him up to the 4* level. 5 years I believe…and she almost ran last year.

[OverandOnward]

To get a rider going regularly around 4*'s … strategy …

The one-horse riders are at a disadvantage for 2 reasons. They are at the whims of fate that the one horse may have to be withdrawn due to some little thing. And, the rider is not getting as much experience with only one trip each outing. This matters even more on this side of the water, with only one 4* per year. Getting to Europe to pick up more trips is a whole other budget level.

This year is at least the 2nd time Jennie Brannigan would have run but didn’t due to an injury to her horse. Each year Sinead rides one Rolex KY trip if she can, but each year Boyd and Buck go home with multiple trips adding to their experience bank. I am very happy to see Lauren now in that category, at least for this year.

The more trips, the better, more confident and more consistent the rider will be. Much more assured of a fun day for the owner without a disappointment!

This matters at the Intermediate, Advanced, 2*, 3* development. Buck even appears to have a scientifically calibrated time schedule with his assistants to give him as many rides as he does at each event. No wonder he is such a confident rider.

This is how the sport powerhouses are made, who regularly go to 4*'s and are regularly at the top - WFP, Andrew N, Mary King, Tina Cook, Jock Paget, Tim Price, Phillip, Boyd, Buck, etc. … they don’t JUST get there and ride. They ride multiple trips at each 3*/4* level event. They aren’t always on a spectacular horse, but with their experience-bank behind them, they are spectacular riders on any horse.

Jung is riding several at higher levels on a regular basis back home. Horses that aren’t even in the press on this side.

It’s important to define what the goal really is. To know you’ll have a ride every year in Rolex requires more than one ready horse. To have only one ready horse is to ride when the stars are aligned in your favor.