Spinoff on conformation faults

Do WB Inspection reports/comments identify conformation flaws? Angular limb deformities? Suitability for certain kind of sport?

I’ve only ever had an Irish Draught inspection. There they give you a score card with notes, not all together unlike a dressage test. For each part of the horse being graded, it lists the standard, the score, and the comments about that part.

So for the foreleg the standard might say, “Straight limb with a flat knee and good bone.”

The comments might say, “Toes in slightly on left. Bone 9.5in.”

Then a score is given. As in, “Score-7,5.”

Because Irish Draught horses have always been bred for versatility no particular career is suggested, though gaits and way of going are judged. Soundness and athleticism are the top priority. Stallions are also judged for jumping style and ability.

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In my experience, conformation is scored, ie, correctness of front and hind limbs, head and neck and frame. However, diameter of bone isn’t given nor are specific faults such as toeing in/out, at least not written into the overall score. It may be commented on, if you are there as an observer. Years ago I attended an inspection where the German inspector was particularly focused on feet so there were comments. There is generally a lot of information given verbally, but specifics aren’t written down. I haven’t ever had suitability discussed, as that is often a function of the breeding. However, gait and jumping scores are always given in mare and stallion tests, so that should be a clear indication to someone trying to decide suitability.

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Mention of bone size might be a breed requirement. Cleveland Bays require bone measurement of the forelegs on inspected stallions, both Pure and Partbreds. This allows potential users of a stallion to know his bone size. He can be reinspected at an older age, evaluating him as a fully mature horse, plus his get for passing on Breed qualities of breed type, bone size, to get his Quality Approved rating. Quality Approved (the highest rating ) Pure mares also have bone measured and listed at their inspection. Bone size and quality (tight legs, dense, refined bone) are closely monitored to prevent loss in the breed. As other breeds have found, once the bone is lost, you can’t get it back. Clevelands have a very different bone type than draft breeds, very dense, galloping bone that holds up in use at speed and distance over large dark hooves. No white hooves on the Pure Cleveland horses. Hooves are still big, not clunky, in proportion to the size of the horse body above. Not so common on horses anymore!

Good Show for the Irish keeping up measuring for bone during inspections!

With Registries of Warmbloods, they have a mixed heritage of breeds making them up. And the goals of those registries change on a regular basis. They wanted big gaits, then prettier faces for the buyers, then more elasticity and so on. Standards change at least every 10 years, sometimes sooner. Stallions at the top of the heap fell from grace overnight when Registry goals changed. Now they are “coarse, not trainable enough, not graceful, too much bone”.

The consistancies of heritage breeds in their animals are similar looking horses from old photos to the animals showing now, being alike. This is the big difference in a Breed versus a Registry. You should be able to look at the Breed horse and recognize his Breed! He should look like his Breed! Exception would be American Arabs who put pretty above all. Famous name horses from the 60s-70s, would not get a glance in the show ring now. We would probably ID them as Partbred Arabs. Not “typey enough” without the modern deeply dished faces, extreme up headed build and knee action. I don’t consider the Western breeds to be heritage breeds, being less than 100 years old.

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When I presented my Arabian stallion to the North American Shagya Society for breeding approval, they measured bone (as well as height and girth circumference) in addition to overall conformation consideration. None of the WB registries that I have presented him to so far have measured bone. I always include his “bone” measurement in his stallion service ads because some people still value substance.

(FWIW, I’m proud that he looks like an “old-fashioned”/ pre-70s era Arabian. Some of us still like that kind!) :wink:

IMO, good substance/“bone” is an important element that contributes to long term soundness.

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First of all, fist bump from the Irish side!

One of the things that’s always getting tossed around the Irish horse circles is the idea that you should be able to pluck an Irish farmer from the fox hunt 150 years ago and set him down at an inspection now and he should be able to recognize the horses as the same type he owns (maybe a bit fancier, we’ve been at it for a while). Our job is to maintain standards so that you could fling that poor farmer another 100 years into the future, and he would still see a horse he recognizes.

These are vastly different breeding goals than the warmblood registries have, but I think the horse breeders of the future are going to be grateful that we went to the trouble to keep these genetics alive.

The info about the Cleveland Bay is soooo interesting! I didn’t know that bone was part of the breed standard (though it makes sense looking at them), and hooves! What an often ignored and completely vital ingredient for soundness. Under run heels are severely penalized in ID inspections. Also calf knees and sickle hocks, because those are prevalent conformation faults.

We should probably post a separate thread about the heritage breeds and how they fit into the future of sporthorse breeding.

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I really cannot recall the results or much of the KWPN inspection since I only dealt with it once. My P.R.E. (ANCCE) has a detailed sheet that scores all gaits, and various conformation traits such as the head; concave, convex, straight, etc. They really break down the build of the horse on this sheet and it is quite detailed. A P.R.E. can also compete in ANCCE morphological competitions where they score comfornation in a detailed manner as well as suitability.