A St. Bernard who attacked the horse I was trail riding.
I have owned and loved Dalmatians and found that many people who own them are not appropriate for the breed. I guess the title of this thread is to call out the most aggressive dog one has known. With purebreds, when I read a standard and it tells me that is a guard dog or one person dog I don’t consider the individuals aggressive but rather true to their breed. When I find a dog that is aggressive in a breed where that is not considered a breed attribute , THEN I call the individual aggressive.
Excellent post. Ditto this.
That seems odd. I mean, the standard calls for aggression, so you say it’s not aggression. That’s like saying a Pointer isn’t birdy because he’s supposed to be birdy.
german shepherds. More than one occasion, different places, different dogs.
Years ago I had a GSD come up to my horse (unleashed) while trail riding. I can’t call it an attack - he did run up to us, but was not threatening, just curious. In spite of my yelling he got too close and got kicked in the shoulder - probably never did it again… That was not aggression, it was bad owner management.
Another time I had a GSD charge off his property and come after my coonhound mix. This was not curiosity, but fortunately was mostly noise and I kicked him pretty hard, pretty fast. Owner came and retrieved dog. The most shocking part was that the owner never asked if my dog was ok and never apologized for not having his dog under control. Another case of bad owner management.
Not a big fan of the purebred GSD’s but I’ve had 3 mixes w/ obvious shepherd in them, and they’ve all been nice dogs and smart.
[QUOTE=vacation1;7223431]
That seems odd. I mean, the standard calls for aggression, so you say it’s not aggression. That’s like saying a Pointer isn’t birdy because he’s supposed to be birdy.[/QUOTE]
More than odd.
[QUOTE=vacation1;7223431]
That seems odd. I mean, the standard calls for aggression, so you say it’s not aggression. That’s like saying a Pointer isn’t birdy because he’s supposed to be birdy.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing. Is a friendly lab not actually friendly, because good temperament is part of the breed standard?
[QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;7223787]
I was thinking the same thing. Is a friendly lab not actually friendly, because good temperament is part of the breed standard?[/QUOTE]
What is good temperament? I would consider a good tempered dog to be a steady and predictable animal, but not necessarily free of all aggression. I think breed standards are still important. If a breed is supposed to be protective, what is the point of breeding a dog with absolutely no protectiveness in the temperament? Not every breed is for every person. No dog should be out of control or biting in appropriately, but some people can handle and enjoy a good, steady working breed dog (many more people do best with a dog who loves everyone).
I love a good GSD, but a don’t think a good GSD has a retriever temperament.
I’ve never known a Chow, but I’ve heard that they were originally bred for meat and temperament wasn’t a big concern. They are known for being a strictly one person dog. I would expect that most are muzzled at the vet. A little research on them will quickly tell you that many people love them, but they don’t and shouldn’t expect them to be friendly to everyone.
Casey09 my point entirely. That is the whole concept of breed standards and purebred dogs. Now if this thread is to call out the most aggressive dog ever and it is a guard breed then that may be a good thing.
I’m w/ you Casey - the dog, irrespective of breed should be steady and predictable. AND managed according to the type of dog it is. The shepherd that came and nailed my dog was unprovoked, and not controlled. Another GSD that I know, was walking on his leash w/ owner towards me. I was leaning on my car and he LUNGED at me. Thankfully stopped by leash. I don’t find that dog predictable and I don’t trust him.
Interestingly, my current large dog is chow (black tongue, little ears, short stubby legs) and shepherd (coloring, the “saddle” the muzzle, the coat) and at almost 13 yrs old I can say that she has NEVER shown any aggressive tendencies to anyone or anything. She’s pretty big and quite vocal, so that keeps undesireables away, but I learned quickly that the shelter named her “Sweetie Pie” (UGH) for a reason. She hides behind me at the vet’s, and once pooped when they tried to pick her up, but has never so much as lifted her lip.
Well, yes, different breeds have different desirable temperaments, not all have the Lab/ Golden temperament as their ideal, far from it! Sighthounds generally are more controlled, perhaps reserved, not necessarily enthusiastically friendly to all, not that they should be aggressive to unfamiliar people, but reserved is generally seen as OK or normal.
But dogs who have been selectively bred to think it is OK to bite people, at least under certain circumstances, can, in the wrong hands, or with the wrong breeding (or both!) be quite dangerous. Some breeds have been rigorously selected against aggression to humans, others have not been. Some individuals of breeds who have generally not been selected for aggression to humans, can, because of poor socialization, brain tumors, poor management,etc, become aggressive to people. These are the dogs that fry people’s brains, they just cannot process that this lovely Lab or Golden or Newfoundland has severely bitten someone.
Irish Wolfhounds have been rigorously selected against aggression to humans, and it is thankfully very rare, due to the immense power of these dogs. But it does exist ,as does aggression to humans in every breed, and has resulted in broken limbs and severe injuries. In some cases necropsies have revealed brain tumors.
I think most people think dogs are more benign than they actually are. Dogs are descended from social predators, they all have 42 very sharp teeth, and considering how clueless most people are, it is a wonder that more are not severely bitten or killed.
I do love dogs, and think it is a great testament to their character in general that more people are not harmed by them.
even “guard dogs” shouldn’t be going around attacking other dogs and biting . Lunging at and biting other people while out on a walk is NOT appropriate guard dog behavior, and guard dogs aren’t supposed to be dog aggressive, ever. A good guard dog barks loudly when intruders breach the territory; a good guard dog is reasonably friendly when off his own territory; and a good guard dog doesn’t make his own decisions about when to bite people. And good guard dogs are not dog aggressive.
Consider the German Shepherd- the “test” of a german shepherd is Schutzhund. Schutzhund is all about obedience, first and foremost. The most important part of Schutzhund is the obedience part; the second part, the “tracking” is, from a search and rescue person’s perspective, rather ridiculous, but again, it’s all about obedience- Schutzhund tracking the dog’s natural scenting abilities are suppressed and the dog is instead taught to obediently walk slowly along a track with his nose pressed to the ground- all about obedience. The biting part of the test is also all about obedience- no good GSD should ever even consider biting someone unless ordered to do so.
Protection dogs and police dogs ARE expected to act of their own accord to protect their handler, but they go through extensive training to be able to recognize bad-guy behavior and recognize when they are allowed to bite.
And I have to say, the biting these dogs do isn’t aggression- it’s a game. It’s an elaborate tug-game. They aren’t biting out of aggression, they are biting to play a game.
Guard dogs shouldn’t be aggressive. Dogs who exhibit actual signs of aggression get rapidly “washed out” of protection dog programs because they are not suitable to the work.
Unfortunately in the US many GSD breeders don’t bother to test their breeding stock in Schutzhund to see if they have appropriate temperaments, and a lot of the GSDs you meet are fearful, nervous animals prone to fear-biting.
The nastiest dog I’ve ever known was a cocker too.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7202345]
There is an inherited trait in cockers and other spaniels called rage syndrome. We found with my cocker that she was having petit mal seizures…as she came out of the seizure, she would attack anyone who disturbed her. I wonder if the “rage syndrome” is really an undiagnosed seizure disorder.
Once we moved from the city to our farm and she was no longer exposed to lawn chemicals, the seizures completely stopped.[/QUOTE]
I believe this. The craziest, most aggressive dog I’ve ever known was a cocker. It wasn’t my dog, but I lived with the family who owned it. They eventually had to put it down. When he went into a “rage”, he would bite anyone…even those of us who lived with him. I think the most aggressive dog (other the cocker) that I ever knew was a husky.
FWIW …I own Rhodesian Ridgebacks and German Shepherds. I hear people all the time say that they’re aggressive dogs, but mine aren’t at all. One of the RR’s will scare the pants off (or pee out of lol) you if you walk by our truck while he’s in it, since he’s really a big baby and is fear aggressive. But, you could open the door and call him out and he’d be “Hey, how are ya? got any food?” No one would dare do it since he’s 110 lbs. In the “dog aggressive” category… I’ve had several of my dogs attacked by Golden Retrievers, as in…sitting there, minding their own business and out of nowhere the GR comes running up to them and attacking. I don’t believe the GR hype one bit…I’d rather have a dog that is “transparent”, than a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;7207132]
Chows.:yes:
I like the breed, but probably won’t have another one. They’re very difficult to keep if you have any other animals. Or visitors. Or family members with slow reflexes. And the coat is a godawful amount of work.[/QUOTE]
LOL…love this ringing breed endorsement. 
[QUOTE=wendy;7225547]
even “guard dogs” shouldn’t be going around attacking other dogs and biting . Lunging at and biting other people while out on a walk is NOT appropriate guard dog behavior, and guard dogs aren’t supposed to be dog aggressive, ever. A good guard dog barks loudly when intruders breach the territory; a good guard dog is reasonably friendly when off his own territory; and a good guard dog doesn’t make his own decisions about when to bite people. And good guard dogs are not dog aggressive.
Consider the German Shepherd- the “test” of a german shepherd is Schutzhund. Schutzhund is all about obedience, first and foremost. The most important part of Schutzhund is the obedience part; the second part, the “tracking” is, from a search and rescue person’s perspective, rather ridiculous, but again, it’s all about obedience- Schutzhund tracking the dog’s natural scenting abilities are suppressed and the dog is instead taught to obediently walk slowly along a track with his nose pressed to the ground- all about obedience. The biting part of the test is also all about obedience- no good GSD should ever even consider biting someone unless ordered to do so.[/QUOTE]
I agree with all of this.
[QUOTE=wendy;7225547]Protection dogs and police dogs ARE expected to act of their own accord to protect their handler, but they go through extensive training to be able to recognize bad-guy behavior and recognize when they are allowed to bite.
And I have to say, the biting these dogs do isn’t aggression- it’s a game. It’s an elaborate tug-game. They aren’t biting out of aggression, they are biting to play a game.
Guard dogs shouldn’t be aggressive. Dogs who exhibit actual signs of aggression get rapidly “washed out” of protection dog programs because they are not suitable to the work.
Unfortunately in the US many GSD breeders don’t bother to test their breeding stock in Schutzhund to see if they have appropriate temperaments, and a lot of the GSDs you meet are fearful, nervous animals prone to fear-biting.[/QUOTE]
I agree with most of this, but I would argue that working breeds are bred to have a temperament that is different from other breeds.
Here is an excerpt from an article written by a trainer:
When the police get a protection bred puppy, they don’t start terrorizing the pup. They let it grow up to be a normal dog, in a home, meeting people, doing the same things we all do with our pups. The protection dog trainers know what the breeding will do once these dogs grow up. The training they do with the dogs just brings out the control that will be needed on the street, but the protectiveness is already in the dog. The training doesn’t make the dog a protection dog. The breed doesn’t necessarily make a protection dog. Selective breeding, within certain breeds that have the potential for protection, makes a protection dog.
The site this is from is
http://samthedogtrainer.com/articles/my-dog-is-too-friendly-with-strangers/
I am quoting that not because I personally know anything about the author, but because it is the summation of what I’ve heard from people do train protection work for competition. Everyone I’ve ever known who has done it has told me that they have extensively socialized their dog from puppyhood in preparation for the work, but that the dog became naturally more suspicious at a certain age. By suspicious, I do not mean uncontrollably lunging at strangers on a walk, though. That would be bad and dangerous. I talked to a man who has done this type of training for his entire adult lifetime, though, and he told me that while his dog is fine in crowds of people and is fine with people walking very close and bumping into him, he only lets people pet the dog in a very controlled setting. If someone asks, he generally says no. I saw his dog and he was very obedience, but aloof.
The article in its entirety talks about the importance of socialization and not trying to make a dog aggressive to strangers.
[QUOTE=Hannahsmom;7222597]
I have owned and loved Dalmatians and found that many people who own them are not appropriate for the breed. I guess the title of this thread is to call out the most aggressive dog one has known. With purebreds, when I read a standard and it tells me that is a guard dog or one person dog I don’t consider the individuals aggressive but rather true to their breed. When I find a dog that is aggressive in a breed where that is not considered a breed attribute , THEN I call the individual aggressive.[/QUOTE]
This is what you said. Your post doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
Boston Terrier. I was pet sitting for a woman who had an old Border Collie and a middle aged Boston. I was trying to move the dog over so I could sit on the couch, and I started out asking nicely. He refused and got crabby. I went to give his collar a tug, got crabbier. He ended up growling and snapping at me. That dog got his hiney paddled and never tried that again.
He really wasn’t that bad in comparison to other people’s horror stories, but he was still a nasty little guy.
Why would you paddle a dog’s hiney?
Paula
