Spoiled or something else

[GPjumper]

Lyme/epm came back normal two weeks ago. This was my initial thought. She is excellent at every other point. Once she is on the lead rope she can be fresh and a tad pushy, but nothing out of character for a wound up horse. If you turn to face her and start walking, she will back up beautifully and she readily drops her head in to the halter. It is clear someone put this into her.
This issue is when you are not with her and not babysitting her. If we could get her to figure out how to be in a herd, I think her life would be a lot different and much happier. However, we don’t exactly have horses that she can go out with.
As far as soundness, we haven’t done a lameness exam, or at least not here. I can see if the owner would be willing to add that to the list.

As for breeding, I wouldn’t breed her, but she has spots. insert massive eye roll

We have discussed her moving the mare to a different facility, but being overseas makes things a bit complicated for her.

[Scribbler]

Like mother like foal. If you breed a crazy mare with no horse interpersonal skills you will get a crazy foal. Sounds like horse could use being handled a lot more by a sympathetic person and is not thriving being dumped by an absentee owner

[jvanrens]

@Scribbler

Sounds like horse could use being handled a lot more by a sympathetic person and is not thriving being dumped by an absentee owner

Who tinkled on your cornflakes this morning?

[endlessclimb]

Sounds like she could use work, period.

And, not every horse is born well-adjusted and that doesn’t mean they’re sick or lame. Some just freak out when they feel like they’re going to be left behind or if they’re anticipating something.

She needs to learn to be calm and wait. That’s a skill we, as handlers, need to teach horses just like any other skill. Some are easier than others.

[Scribbler]

@jvanrens

@Scribbler

Sounds like horse could use being handled a lot more by a sympathetic person and is not thriving being dumped by an absentee owner

Who tinkled on your cornflakes this morning?

Was this ride?

I didn’t mean OP wasn’t sympathetic. But I meant that the horse is basically being kept for an absentee owner and has no regular work schedule. Sounds like she is perfectly fine being handled by a person and not anxious. She might thrive if she had her Own Person taking her for handwalks every day. But that she doesn’t seem happy basically being retired with no work and no Own Person.

[GPjumper]

this is exactly the issue. Even when her owner was around, the problem still existed to a lesser extent. She is the type of horse who will start pawing/dancing on the cross ties the second you have to walk away. She can’t handle being alone, but she also doesn’t want horse companions. She wants the humans. I often wonder if she was orphaned or weaned too early.

[Scribbler]

How does she feel about goats?

[GPjumper]

We have joked about getting her a pet goat……

[fivestrideline]

I vote drug and tie, at least until you can do some more digging physically. The fact that you notice a difference as the Regumate wears off makes me think there’s something there (and why oh WHY would anyone breed her???).

Trazodone and/or ace, make a routine of which horses go out first and come in first. I’d tie her, turn out one or two, turn her out, and go from there. Bring her in first and tie her, bring everyone else in.

You could try a pain drug trial to see if her behavior changes - something like gabapentin that’s easy on the stomach. If she flips a switch while on it, you KNOW this is physical in some way. Just another idea.

[fanfayre]

Is there any way, and this may be a veterinary question, but, could she have some happy juice, just enough to take the edge off, as it were, and see how she would be turned out with another horse or two? Not enough to leave her vulnerable but enough to knock out her aggression?

[sammy14]

I have a horse like this sadly, very insecure but not aggressive to other horses luckily. He does best on full time turnout and can cope with horses coming and going that way, but not with being totally alone. He is what the vet describes as “a highly strung performance horse” Maybe the mare is similar?
Turn in and out always makes him anxious.The best method for him was sticking to a routine which he eventually got used to, in his case it he was last to go out, and he came in in the middle ,due to as was mentioned, being safer freaking out in the stable than in the paddock.
He did adjust with time, but if the routine changed, that set him back…It took MONTHS for him to adjust.
Having food in front of him didn’t help at all, being tied up just confined the mayhem to a smaller area.
He is a horse who needs to be with someone (and as a herd animal who can blame him) and with us, i’ve worked really hard to get him to see me as someone he can rely on even when other horses are not around…he has to be able to see either me or another horse, so that’s how it is, I accept that. I never punish him or apply aversives except to keep his feet in one place when he’s anxious and not to step into my space. I only reward him when his attention is on me, seems to be working and he’s figuring out staring into the distance looking for a horse he can’t see is not as rewarding as looking at me, lowering his head and getting a single horse feed pellet.It’s not so much about the treat as it is about the IDEA of the treat and being with an ally I think.
It’s hard for you if she doesn’t have her own person though, and maybe too much responsibility for you to be a viable long term thing? I would electrify the area around wherever shes crashing in to at the very least just for safety though…and not underestimate how profoundly upsetting a move can be to a horse and how long it can take them to settle.She probably WILL adjust though, horses aren’t really evolved to keep doing something energy demanding for no benefit for ever, they can and do learn so if you can keep her safe while she does that things should improve eventually

[SonnysMom]

Only marginally related, I have been told the price for Regumate is much cheaper at Chewy than from our local vet.

ETA: Fix typo

[candyappy]

@Scribbler

How does she feel about goats?

This would be a great idea if the horse was calm and just needed a buddy.

It is a hugely bad idea and inhumane to subject a goat to a horse who is out of control in both a stall and in turnout.

[Scribbler]

@candyappy

@Scribbler

How does she feel about goats?

This would be a great idea if the horse was calm and just needed a buddy.

It is a hugely bad idea and inhumane to subject a goat to a horse who is out of control in both a stall and in turnout.

I was wondering if she might attach to an entity that wasnt a horse. Obviously not let her beat up a goat.

[luvmyhackney]

If farms are not set up for goats, they can be a total PITA. I say that as the owner of 2 goats and only 1 of 3 horses likes the goats. Goats are fun but they get into everything, worse that a toddler.

I’d try a mirror, drugs, and tying before buying a goat.

[candyappy]

@Scribbler

I was wondering if she might attach to an entity that wasnt a horse. Obviously not let her beat up a goat.

She doesn’t need to attach. She needs to learn to settle down and if the horse is anxious like this one and running into fences , she can easily trample a goat by accident. Just not right to put a goat into that situation.

[TheJenners]

My gelding was like this, and while he wasn’t “neuro,” there was… something. My ex had joked that Rory had been deprived of oxygen at birth, and years later when I repeated the joke to my vet (who had leased him for six months and was familiar with him and cried when she put him down), she said “hmm hypoxic foal, could be…” He was similar to your boarder’s mare, any change on the farm threw him into a tizzy, he had to go out first, he had to come in first, he had to be fed first, he went through trazadone like it was tictacs. He hasn’t a headshaker but sometimes he’d just bob his head, regardless of the weather or temperature or time of day, I used to say he liked to feel the walnut rattle. Just managing his daily routine and keeping it the same kept him the happiest, but there would still be “out bursts” of basically insane behavior, rearing or running the pasture, throwing his head maniacally while being lead (leading to rearing), with no source of the behavior and no good resolution short of re-stalling him until he calmed down.

I had him for 12+ years, and it never got better.

[GPjumper]

It is VERY strange behavior. She is fine one moment, then squealing and bucking annoyed the next. Once you catch her, she is wound up, but perfectly respectable manners wise. If she is brought in the barn alone to be groomed, she is extremely anxious and in her anxiety, she will bite. It is almost like she has never been taught what humans expect of her and because she is always so anxious, the lessons don’t always stick.

ETA: I’ve considered a goat, but I’m not sure it is fair. Along with hating full sized horses, she runs the minis and donkeys off their feet (yes we tried her with them, too) Its quite sad. She is desperate for a buddy but doesn’t know how to be kind to said buddy.

[RosebudLaVie]

I would suggest to the owner that she pursue hormonal testing and repro imaging, especially with a significant response to Regumate. Ovarian tumors can secrete excess hormones that can significantly alter behavior. Also agree with recommendations for ulcer treatment, although that doesn’t seem to have made much of a difference.
Beyond a medical or pain-related issue, sometimes an anxious horse may need LIGHT anxiolytic drugs (ie.trazodone) to help modulate their behavior until they adapt to their new routine and home.

[Pico_Banana]

I know you said you tried different combos in turnout, but have you tried turning out with just one, really dominant horse? So she can get her companionship that she seems to crave but won’t drive the other one crazy?

Heh, if you don’t have one, come borrow one of mine. I have two. They are a really nice balance of no nonsense, cut it out types, but rule primarily with attitude not physical aggression.