Hi all. We’ve had one come in for boarding that we just can’t figure out how to make happy. She doesn’t like being in her stall and will just stare sadly and the outside world. If she’s out, she will stand by the gate wanting to be brought in. Our farm is 8 horses max. We currently have 6. She is turned out by herself because she tries to kill any horse she is turned out with, but doesn’t want any of the others wandering too far away from her. If we are bringing in for the evening, if she isn’t brought inside in the exact order she deems appropriate, she runs the field like a maniac slamming herself into the fences. If you bring her in first, she tries to jump out of the stall, or loses her mind if we close the top door. To turn out, if she goes out first, she runs the fence line frantically until the others come out, but she if doesn’t go out first she is pawing and having a meltdown. It seems as if she wants everyone to cater to her every whim (which can change daily depending on her mood, the weather etc) she is currently not in work.
In terms of ground manners, she can be pushy/nudgey, but has at least learned to back up and move off of the humans leading her. (Progress) her owner is military (currently deployed) so her only real handling is by the stand trying to keep her happy.
Any thoughts or suggestions? Her owner is a very sweet woman and wants to do right by the horse. Putting her into a training program to allow us to work with the horse on ground manners etc is an option, we just aren’t sure where to start to tackle this.
Usually they aren’t this….odd and are more classically herd bound. This one is just an odd duck.
Any suggestions?
Major anxiety and likely a pain issue too. Have you looked at ulcers, hormones and neuro stuff? How is she to handle or ride?
You can’t train out behavior in stall or pasture when horse is alone and at liberty. That’s a management and health thing. Ground work will only be useful for when horse is actually being handled
Was horse like this at old place? What’s her history? Is she used to a barn or a field? How long has she been at your place?
Being in some kind of training program—of any kind—should help. It will give her purpose; otherwise horses like her just fret and fret. They don’t understand what the rules are so they make up their own and have meltdowns when it’s not making whatever sense they expected.
What sort of situation was she in before? Knowing that may help.
Another thing they worked with a similar kind of odd-ball fretter was turning him out in a herd that knocked him down the totem pole. It turned him into a perfectly sweet, normal-acting horse. But if this one is trying to kill other horses, then that won’t work for her.
Good luck!
That sounds like my gelding when he developed ulcers after moving to a new barn and having his feed changed suddenly (without my permission). He became more and more anxious, and at times was inconsolable whether he was in the stall, in the field, or if I had him and was trying to do something with him. He was a very mannerly, laid back guy prior to this, and his behavior was upsetting to me. He was so wound up that he could be described as “pushy” or in your space a lot on the ground when usually he was a saint and very respectful. He was just out of his mind worried all the time about where he was and where everyone else was all of the time.
He got over this when moved to a different barn (same large property, but different farm and owner). He chilled pretty quickly and no longer really cared who was where or when. He was still a bit anxious about some stuff though, and the BO on more than one occasion said he scared her when he’d get nervous and upset.
Moved him to his current home and he had a total meltdown and I literally thought he was going to die of a heart attack he got so whacked out of his mind about everything.
Finally got a clue and started him on full tubes of Ulcergard to see if that was the issue. Bingo. He started improving almost immediately (not 100%, but noticeable). I did the full 28 days and he is now back to being Mr. Chilled Dude all the time. Totally respectful for everyone, not afraid of much, doesn’t really care what other horses are doing. He’ll call for his mare friend if she leaves the pasture, but nothing nutty. She calls for him when I take him out to ride or whatever, and he couldn’t care less.
So…yeah. I’d probably try some full tubes of Ulcergard just to see if that does anything. I mean, if the owner is willing to try that. It’s not cheap, but if it’s going to work I think it is obvious pretty quickly. If that’s not the answer, move on to something else.
I don’t know her soundness history. (Her owner is deployed so not really reachable for me to check on that) I do know she came from a show barn with 2 hours of turnout and worked “when they had time” yet charged the owner for partial training. Because of her stressy behavior, we did 30 days of ulcergard and sucralfate, but it didn’t help very much. We are waiting on misoprostol to come in, it has been ordered.
She does live on regumate. Right now, we get sent the injectable. She gets it’s every Monday evening, however, I do notice it start to fade on Sundays. Once this bottle finishes, we will be switching to oral for the consistency. This probably helps her the most for 3
To 4 days after the injectable, she can come in or go out last. While not totally quiet, she isn’t slamming herself into the fences and gates. We plan on running a repro exam on her when the vet comes for spring shots in March.
So sorry to hear of this. In the interests of human safety (and horse safety, in this situation), in addition to everything you’re doing, I’d be talking with the vet about giving her something like Trazodone to help with the anxiety. Not as a permanent solution, but as something to help her with this transition. Even if it is ulcers, the Trazodone should complement the treatment.
I took in a senior mare as a foster that had a ton of anxiety to start (jumping gates, spinning herself around in her stall until she was steaming with sweat, etc.). We put her on a high dose of Trazodone to help her out and it worked really well. Still took a lot of management, of course, but it made a noticeable difference. I eventually was able to wean her off it. And the nice thing is there’s a huge range of dosing, so you can start at a high dose, get them settled, and then start weaning off based on behavior. We got stuck on 3 pills a day for a number of months, which is an absurdly low dose but made a difference. Then summer came, the grass came in, and grassy turnout helped her get past that last hump.
My first thought was if this mare had ever really been socialized in her life, but your post about the Regumate… makes me wonder if this is a mare that would be better off spayed.
Sorry for you to have to deal with all this, sorry for the horse to be so miserable.
My young mare used to act like a fool in her stall during turnout time. Sometimes she still does if she has too many days off in a row and has a little gas in the tank.
When she’s acting like a lunatic, she gets tied. The second the clip goes on, she’s done with her ill behavior, and this is with a super light fused breakaway halter that she could snap with a head toss.
This is apparently a trigger point for a lot of people on here, but I find tying to be a very valuable tool in teaching a horse that they must patiently wait. My horses know that when they are tied, it might be for 5 minutes or 5 hours so they better just settle down and chill. Tie to a blocker ring with a rope halter with supervison to start.
I don’t care if it’s ulcers or a leg being sawn off or just attitude. Property damage or physical damage because “she’s unhappy with XYZ” is unacceptable.
That would work excellently for turn out time, but bringing her in is when she gets worse. She will run the pasture/slam herself into the fence/gate. You never know which horse coming in will set her off, but when she’s annoyed it’s not her, she will literally take off bucking and squealing and the process begins. For safety, we don’t even touch or look at her until she standing by the gate and we will stop walking towards her if she tries to start her nonsense again. It just gets difficult when it can take 45 minutes for her to settle enough. In her good days, she patiently waits.
Unfortunately, spaying her isn’t an option. Her owner wants the option to breed her.
Trazodone might be worth trying, especially if it can get her out with a quiet pasture mate.
You can tie her outside, too.
How long has she been at the farm?
I don’t envy you dealing with this, but I admire you for trying. We were headed to a situation where our little 11 horse barn (all out in pairs but for one who is in rehab) had 4 horses that each had to come in FIRST. None of them were as extreme in their behavior as your mare, but not a tenable situation. We agreed that the owners would take a chill pill for a few days, we brought the rehab horse in first and things have calmed down. Gotta love horses.
None of that pertains to your case. The only ideas I have would be concerning her feed. If she’s not really in work, I’d consider putting her on an all forage diet; hay and maybe alfalfa cubes. No grain beyond a ration balancer if needed. It might help her ulcer tendency. It might chill her out a bit, and then if you gave her a bit of hay at turn in/ turn out time, it might keep her busy enough to keep her brain between her ears. So many mights! Best of luck. And thanks for supporting a member of our armed services while they’re deployed.
She has been here since October. Unfortunately, I don’t have a place to tie her outside. The only spot would be between all the paddocks, which would mean we would be walking the other horses in around a horse losing its mind. (And close enough for hind feet to connect with the staff or other horses.)
Can you have someone hold her (if it’s even remotely safe) and give her corrections for out of line behavior, and cookies for being a good girl?
She’s been there long enough to know the routine by now. Fractious horses are the pits, I’m sorry.
I would bring her in first and tie her in her stall for awhile. Let everyone come in and then have her chill a bit before she gets untied.
I knew horse that wasn’t quite the same as this but maybe some similarities. He was really odd. He came totally shut down inside of himself. Was insanely aggressive in pasture with several horses. Yet, couldn’t be turned out alone with out panicking. For him, life was good with his own person and with being turned out consistently with one other horse. He couldn’t be alone, but couldn’t be in groups either. If I took the saddle off and let him stay in the arena while I put his tack away–where he could mostly see me aside from a few seconds, he’d be panicked, even with other people trying to calm him at the side of the arena. He was incredibly loyal and loving when he had his person. But, if another horse or human got close to me if he was next to me, he’d sometime give them a nip to back off, even the man who fed him everyday. We have no idea what happened in his past but it probably wasn’t good.
There usually isn’t anyone to hold her. For turn in, there is usually one person to bring in and feed dinner. That’s the hard part. If we had two people, someone could be working with her while the other brought in. It is easier for me, since I usually do it, to leave her alone until she settles. If you start grabbing her once she escalates, she just gets worse by the day. It is almost as if she learned that her behavior gets her the desired outcome. I get the feeling the previous barn catered to her whims while our farm is just incapable of doing that for her.
I would find the slot for turn out that fits best for her and put her in first and stick to the schedule. Let her have a hissy in the stall , it is safer. Once it is an established routine hopefully she will settle.
When I worked at one barn we had several who did settle ( after being out of hand) when we did it the same every day. No drugs, no ulcers, no pain . They just needed consistency. It took a while.
This behaviour is way beyond “learned behavior for strategic gain.” Especially since horse is miserable in every situation. This is physical pain or mental issues. It’s not spoiled or bratty. Stop thinking in terms of punishing her for it and start thinking about problem solving. Why is this horse anxious almoSt to the point of psychosis?
Your lower staffed barn with an absentee owner may not be a good fit for this horse.
Repro exam and check for lyme and epm is where I would start. Along with a lameness/neuro exam. She’s not ok and she’s trying to tell everyone that pretty clearly. Was she scoped before and after treating for ulcers?
Why does the deployed owner want to breed her? How on earth is she going to be a good mom? Until she gets figured out and hopefully the behavior is normalized, that should not even be a thought.
A case for “just because it has a uterus doesn’t mean we need to use it”.
