Spooking: Horse or Rider?

[Scribbler]

It’s always the horse never the rider is a useful thing to tell beginner beginner riders on well schooled horses who simply can’t use the aids well enough to get a decent ride.

For more experienced riders on horses with known problems though the whole question becomes how to mitigate or fix the behaviour problems and that takes tact and feel which are important qualities to make a great rider.

Horses can for instance buck because their back hurts or spook because their vision isn’t great. The older mare I ride is barefoot and she spooks much less if I trail ride in hoof boots so she isn’t anticipating an ouch step. However last summer I took her camping out on the open range and she didn’t spook at all despite it being remote and unfamiliar territory. Go figure.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹I have watched beginner and returning adult riders create and then solve all kinds of problems with their horses.

Anyhow if you watch horses at play in a field they will run and chase each other and sometimes get set off by something they are totally used to like a train or a noisy truck. Only an issue if you are trying to ride in those circumstances! Otherwise it’s just normal horse play.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@chestnutmarebeware

To me, spooking is 100% a horse issue. Dealing with it (or mitigating the effects) is 100% a rider issue.I’ve had many horses over the years and some spooked while others didn’t. My riding style didn’t change, so I doubt I was preventing or causing the behavior over the years. You can keep a horse’s mind on his work with shoulder-in, etc., but some ponies are going to spook, regardless.

As prey animals, you can’t really blame them.

What a great quote (I think I’m the third person to highlight this phrase)!

I’ll also just add to the “horseplay” issue that I think most spooking is only an issue because the rider is trying to stay on the horse’s back and off the ground. Many horses spook at random things in their field all day, run for a bit, then immediately settle. It’s just a question of understanding that when a rider is on their back, different behavior standards apply.

A pony I ride, particularly in the winter, has had occasional huge, random spooks at the most innocuous things (like the appearance of sunlight reflecting off of a white standard, shavings bags that people were carrying out of the arena). Although I’ve also experienced her spooking as evasiveness, some spooks have been clearly fear-based over-reactive panicked running across the arena to things I would never have remotely registered as scary. The fear-based spooks weren’t out of malice and she was willing and compliant before they occurred, but I admit that as a rider it can be a problem, because, well, I’m on board!

I don’t think there’s a single strategy to deal with spooking, because it can take many forms and have many motivations, but asking questions like, when is this occurring, why might it be occurring, to what degree is this a problem, and what conditions are necessary for me to create to solve this are all helpful to ask. When a horse has certain areas or things that provoke the behavior it’s easier to deal with than horses who are just very reactive in general to what seem like random things, and not to other things that might seem more obviously spook-provoking.

[ToughShet]

Hooray, a topic where I have plenty of experience! :lol:

I ride what I used to think of as an unpredictable spooker. After years of sticking in the saddle with other horses, he’s dumped me four times in 12 months. BUT every time, I learn a little more. So my two cents, fwiw.

Every horse is different. Some of Teddy’s spooks are true flight responses, but a good number of them are “Hm, I’m [bored/brain-fried/tired] and I don’t want to do this anymore…SQUIRREL!” Somewhere in his young life, he figured out that the spook-and-bolt was a great way to get out of work. He also seems to think that he has to take care of himself, because no one else reliably did. And he has a drop-and-spin that can unseat most riders, including yours truly.

On my last horse, I had to reassure, soothe, and back off to help her trust me. Teddy is NOT that horse. I absolutely cannot ride with less than 100% of my attention on him. The second I drop to 99%, I’ve left a crack open that he’ll happily push through. The more we get to know each other, the easier it becomes for me to feel a spook coming. Often it is a very subtle backing up, combined with getting a little looky or a bit ewe-necked. That immediately makes me do what other riders here have already described: leg ON, forward into the aids, a little shoulder-in/head away. Leg yields, circles, lateral are my friends, but he has to be forward first. Otherwise, he’ll find a way to get into trouble. Conveniently, strong aids and forward also seem to help him relax, maybe because what I’m telling him is “Hey, I got you.”

Other things I’ve done that help: seat lessons on saintly horses; a great trainer; extra mindfulness about my position (bracing in the stirrups is my vice, and a surefire way to get dumped the second I’m off-balance); adjusting my rides on his spooky days so we work on what we need, even if it wasn’t my original plan. Oh, and investing in full-seat tights, which I’m convinced help.

I’m still not sure if we’re going to be a good match for each other in the long run, but I enjoy the challenge of riding Teddy more often than not, and he demands that I bring my A-game. Plus, as an adult rider with a limited budget, I usually wind up riding some…interesting…horses, and becoming a strong spook-mitigator is very useful.

ymmv, but the advice here is great. Best of luck, and welcome to the club!

[OverandOnward]

@chestnutmarebeware

To me, spooking is 100% a horse issue. Dealing with it (or mitigating the effects) is 100% a rider issue.I’ve had many horses over the years and some spooked while others didn’t. My riding style didn’t change, so I doubt I was preventing or causing the behavior over the years. You can keep a horse’s mind on his work with shoulder-in, etc., but some ponies are going to spook, regardless.

As prey animals, you can’t really blame them.

^^^ This! So well said!

Spooking is what horses do. It’s how they are made, part of their hard-wiring as flighty prey animals.

They all spook, until humans take them in hand and teach them not to, for our convenience.

What’s interesting is that they can be trained not to spook. Because not spooking is really the remarkable, unnatural behavior that horses can learn to do. :winkgrin:

[SuzieQNutter]

The fact that he is just turning and walking or trotting home tells me that he is a saint of a horse who is just showing you who is boss!!!

A horse that spooks and spins would leave you in mid air and bolt home without you.

This horse is training you.

As you get to be a better rider you will not let him spin. You stop the spin before it starts. Legs on and close your 6 gates. You have 6 gates. , 2 legs, 2 seat bones 2 reins. Close all gates and he must go forward. Never let him turn his head to home.

Another thing to do is to imagine a 6 foot concrete wall on both sides of your knees. You wouldn’t let him hit that if it was really there. So don’t let him hit the imaginary one. Go straight. Of course the concrete wall bends around corners in the trail always just 6 inches from you knees. But no wandering where ever he wants to go. Go straight where you want to go.

[centaursam]

@Impractical Horsewoman I think what you said about spooking being an issue because we’re trying to remain on the horse and not end up on the ground is an excellent point as that’s the first thing that flashes into my mind when a spook happens which ironically detracts from one’s focus on properly managing the horse once the spook happens.

@ToughShet Being on such horses definitely forces you to learn quickly and stay vigilant throughout the ride. I too am cursed with the habit of bracing in my stirrups :no: I’ll look into full-seat tights, thanks for the tips!

@SuzieQNutter Haha I’m told he used to unseat people with his spins and take-offs so he’s much better than he used to be. I definitely need to work on being the one in authority when it happens though. I’ll try the concrete wall next time I ride, sounds like an interesting way of establishing physical boundaries when they don’t actually exist.

[SuzieQNutter]

@centaursam

@Impractical Horsewoman I think what you said about spooking being an issue because we’re trying to remain on the horse and not end up on the ground is an excellent point as that’s the first thing that flashes into my mind when a spook happens which ironically detracts from one’s focus on properly managing the horse once the spook happens.

@ToughShet Being on such horses definitely forces you to learn quickly and stay vigilant throughout the ride. I too am cursed with the habit of bracing in my stirrups :no: I’ll look into full-seat tights, thanks for the tips!

@SuzieQNutter Haha I’m told he used to unseat people with his spins and take-offs so he’s much better than he used to be. I definitely need to work on being the one in authority when it happens though. I’ll try the concrete wall next time I ride, sounds like an interesting way of establishing physical boundaries when they don’t actually exist.

Back before computer games one of the questions asked to be a pilot in the airforce was, Do you ride horses? This is because a horse rider’s reaction time is so much quicker than any other persons reaction time.

This means that you can go from a loose rein to a holding rein BEFORE the horse spooks. It also means that you have to 100% be aware of everything about you.

Yes I went off at hubby the other day as he let the horse hit his knee on a letter box… But I wasn’t ready, did not cut it with me. You have to be ready 100% of the time for whatever is going to happen and your reaction has to be immediate and quicker than the horse.

Your life can depend on it.

As I said your horse sounds like a saint he is just preparing you for worst horses later in your life.

[centaursam]

@SuzieQNutter That’s a very interesting piece about the airforce, makes sense though.

I’ve gotten used to his “small” spooks so I didn’t think much of them but the last time I rode him it was definitely more pronounced than the other times and it caught me sleeping at the wheel. Could have resulted in a fall or worse if it was a worse horse as you’re saying. I’ve got much to work on.

[Scribbler]

About reaction time.

I rode a spooky horse as a kid. Most of the time she was brave but every once in a while she would leap sideways. Often when we were galloping. No duck and spin.

When I went back to adult returning rider lessons 13 years ago I had to relearn all my technique. But it turned out I could still sit a spook. In my first winter this TB lesson horse did a huge sideways spook and then canter going past nothing an arena corner for the tenth time. I dropped my reins but didn’t even lose my stirrups which impressed my coach. I just went with him automatically.

More recently with my mostly bomb proof mare I was in our outdoor arena when I heard a tree start to fall in the bush. I looked and saw it was falling away from us no danger but I knew maresy was going to teleport us to safety and in a split second I sat up, dropped my heels, carried my hands, and we had flown across the arena before the tree landed. She wanted to keep running but stopped when I asked. I actually don’t want her to ignore falling trees because they are fairly common in our forest and dangerous. I want her to hear them before me and get us out!

But all this seat for spooks I learned as a kid.

That said I don’t like spooky horses especially when they get all wound up about nothing. I don’t like riding feeling their tension and anxiety.

[Sunflower]

I have a horse with a split personality. He is an OTTB. A lot of the time he is laid back, bomb proof, bothered by nothing. And then sometimes, his silly brain kicks in and stupid things become scary. Like the pile of gravel that he normally thinks is a giant pile of grain and I have to prevent him from eating the rocks-- becomes scary. Frightening. Bringing on snorting and white eyes and growing taller and light in the hooves. Really? Yesterday you wanted to eat the rocks, today you think they want to eat you. I find myself greeting such spookiness with scorn. He responds to the scorn by seeming to check himself, like oh, am I being a total bleep by being spooky? and he will then reconsider his reaction-- a few dramatic snorts at the gravel pile, and then all was well.

I know horses are not actually capable of being addicted to drama, but once in awhile this one makes me think otherwise.

Scorn – with this one-- seems to be an effective way to deal with his spooks over silly things.

[MsM]

LOL! We called those episodes “thoroughbred moments” 😁

[chestnutmarebeware]

I’m amazed we haven’t had any “teleportation” stories yet! That sudden sensation of not having a horse under you is always entertaining! 😁

[SuzieQNutter]

Okay this will be long as I am old in the tooth and I have learned from horses since before I could walk.

We are talking about two different things here. The horse who has learned that he spooks and then he can trot home whenever he wants. This will stop when the rider is more experienced and will be able to handle the horse and they will find that the horse will no longer spook.

The horse that shies because a jumper has moved from a chair, or the chair has moved or whatever, is because the feeding is not correct for the work the horse is doing. They are slightly in the realm of overfed and underworked. It takes as long for them to get out of it as it does for them to get into it. Cut all grain. Feed grassy hay and I bet it will stop in under a couple of weeks. Especially when they come here for me to work.

The horse that gets a fright is a whole different story.

I do not like desensitising or desensitisation. They use pressure and keep the pressure on. So you have a horse that is scared, shaking, sweating and cowering and they keep the pressure on. In the end a lion could enter the yard and they would not respond. These horses switch off and this is why a few years ago you had professional trainers being quoted saying that horses do not know one person from another. Which we all know is absolutely ludicrous. These horses get sold to Suzie who treats the horse with kindness and after a month or so the horse actually switches back on. So Suzie flicks the saddle blanket like they have done every day when the horse was switched off. This time the horse actually sees it, spooks pulls back, breaks the lead and takes off with Suzie exclaiming that he has never done that before and they don’t know why it happened today. That is why the trainer blames Suzie that it happens and everything goes down the rabbit hole from there.

The other way desensitisation is used is to say tie plastic bags around the yard so as Dobbins gets used to them. This does not work. Go for a trail ride 3 hours away and a plastic bag flies up over a wheelie bin into his face and Dobbin will still spook and spin and take off for home.

Instead you want to teach your horse to do what you want when they get a fright. They are horses they are allowed to get a fright, and as with the branches falling above, you want Dobbins to be able to react to a fright but then you want them to stand still.

So Spooky Object Training by John Chatterton does this. They get a fright then they stand still. In the training the pressure is dropped as soon as they react and they are brought back and praised.

So the first horse I will tell you about to get a fright when I was on him was Aztec. A company horse. A, lets call her ‘co-worker’ hopped off him and then came back and threw the reins at me and said, “Well you ride him then.”

I hopped on him and I asked for trot. I said okay. He wanted to canter and I said okay. He wanted to go faster and I said not okay and brought him to a halt and wondered what kind of horse she had put me on.

The next day I was the one who caught him and tacked him and took him down to ride. Talk about a different horse. He was totally normal. I was looking up the mountain and went to pat him on the neck and he spun out from under me and spun 360 degrees. I ended up with my face down near my right foot. He stood still and I was able to get back in the saddle.

WTH had happened? I had gone to pat him on the neck. What I did not know was that her way of dealing with frustration with him, and people only get frustrated with horses when they come to the end of their knowledge, was she would pull the right rein until his head was facing her in the saddle Put both reins in her left hand and hold him there while she punched him over and over again in the head. If anyone thinks this will make a horse work their heart out for you. I can tell you it will not. She also rode him in a twisted wire bit and leaned forward going downhill and leaned back going uphill - to build up his muscles.

So to start with you could not raise your right hand without him flinching. By the end of 3 days I could wave a dressage whip up and over his head without him flinching. Within a week you could use it to control horses in a trail ride guide as an extension of your hand without him flinching. He went from not being able to jump a pole on the ground to taking me around 3 foot showjumping courses and One Day Event Cross Country courses. He was fantastic for Jumping Equitation courses.

The second horse to spin on me was a youngster who told me that he did not like the other horse in the arena. As above I treated that with scorn. Nope he was genuinely scared and when the other horse got closer. It was still over 1/3 of an arena away he spun. I had to treat it as a genuine fright for him, go back to square one. Introduce him to the horse and show him that it wasn’t going to hurt him. No spooks after that.

A quarter horse I was riding, a car started coming at us. I thought they were trying to scare us and took no notice. It was the gelding that leapt out of the way of that car. He landed half way down a ditch and was trying not to go further down. He pulled a muscle in his rump jumping out of the way of that car. The woman then looked up and spun the wheel, when my friend just started screaming over and over. Sue she hit my horse. Sue she hit my horse. The car had fishtailed and hit her horse in the hind legs, which had been desensitised and did not jump out of the way. A guy stopped and said he had been following her for a while and she is obviously drunk. The police came and said they would not breathalyse as they were about to go off duty. The next police came and said she had not been drinking. Why are you (my friend) being so mean to her? after all it is only a horse
.
Which brings me to Andy and why I love Spooky Object Training. An Otttb me in a dressage saddle. If you know anything about cattle they do not spook like horses do. Not much fazes them. We had a willy willy. I don’t know if you call them that but like a mini tornado with wind going round and round round.

Well the wind picked up an empty feed bag and whipped it round and round round with each round going through a barbed wire fence. This was enough to spook the cattle.

Then the wind sent that feed bag at me sitting on Andy. Over and over and over and coming at quite a speed right at us. I moved Andy, keeping his head facing it and the wind shifted. I moved. the wind shifted. I asked him to stand still as I figured that I would wait until I knew what that wind was going to do. That bag went end over end about 2 metres to the right of us and Andy stood still and did not move a muscle.

Another day me on Andy ottb in a dressage saddle and a snaffle bit and I was up at our fence line where I met a guy I did not know. A western rider on a stock horse in an Australian stock saddle with a curb bit and a dog.

Our electric fences are strong enough to keep bulls from fighting. We all know to stand back from the electric fence.

His dog did not. All of sudden there is the crack of the dog touching the fence. It took off bounding over high grass yelping every stride and heading for home.

At the crack both horses spun. Andy then stood still and we watched as the stock horse also took off for home. The guy had the horses head facing us. He had not closed his 6 gates. It was bounding over the high grass tripping over rock and divots and not slowing down at all.

He stopped about 300metres away from us. The horse still facing us but not standing still. It was still dancing and trying its best to turn and high tail out of there with the guy using all his might to try and stop it.

Can you tell how much I love Spooky Object Training and yes with the Spooky Object trained horse you go for a 3 hour ride the plastic bag flies up over the wheelie bin and lands on his face and it is no big deal.

[Sunflower]

[SUP]So today’s scary object that wasn’t was a puddle in the pasture. I was catching the horse for a farrier visit. The puddle in the pasture was the cause of great alarm, snorting, growing tall, white eye. I looked around trying to see what the horse was reacting to-- and saw that yes, indeed, it was the puddle. We were not even that close to it… scorn worked again, and the horse decided to get over it.

On the other hand, on the way back to the pasture, the herd was having a galloping festival, round and round, up and down, just precisely when I was leading my OTTB past the puddle and back to his friends. The galloping herd carried on and on.

My horse did his best I am actually an Arab act, with his tail arched, and his neck arched-- here his ground work and training came in handy. I warned him to not even think of being a bleep as we walked, or that it would take all day to reach his pasture. I backed him up and made sure his attention was on me and not his galloping herd. He kept his ears pricked hard at the action (but hey okay that is fine) but he walked nicely and quietly beside me, was polite through the gate, and waited until his halter was off before he joined the melee. It was a crisp windy day and I think the herd was just feeling frisky.

Horses. Spooked at the horse eating puddle, kept his brain and body in check while his herd was galloping like crazy. [/SUP]

[merrygoround]

There are some horses that you absolutely never ride “on the buckle”. The rider has to be proactive at all times.

Sometimes they just need to be put to work to keep their brain occupied by answering aids. Hacking these horses out is seldom a relaxing ride unless you are accompanied by a rider on a horse they like, with a horse they don’t like, hacking can be an exercise in patience. And is far from relaxing.

[bingbingbing]

“Every now and then, however, something will effect him really bad and he’ll spin around quickly and take off trotting at a high speed in the other direction and using the whip doesn’t really do much.”

This comment gave me pause. You need to learn how to stop any horse from taking off with you. And I do not understand your use of the whip. The horse spooks, takes off with you and you whip him?

[centaursam]

These are great stories and I’m glad I’m not the only one dealing with spooky horses.

@bingbingbing I can usually stop him from taking off, it was just this most recent time that I wasn’t able to. And I don’t whip him after he starts taking off. I add whip when he comes to a sudden stop as I know what comes after that and that usually stops the spook. According to this thread, however, that’s still too late and I need to work on sensing when he’s going to stop and prevent that before anything else happens.

[findeight]

Yes, too late, apply the stick the instant you feel him get ready to stop because he’s telling you not listening to your leg. That’s when to punish him. Be sure to give him a place to go by a slight release of the reins. That is the hardest if you are scared as any of us might be. But the basic disobedience is not going forward, second disobedience is not going straight. Have to fix the forward first to fix the direction change…meaning you can’t steer a car that’s not moving.

If you are lucky, if you immediately tell him he can’t stop with the stick behind the leg, just once, don’t tap it, smack him, he’s not going to persue the issue. Probably surprise the heck out if him. He knows better.

[centaursam]

@findeight

Yes, too late, apply the stick the instant you feel him get ready to stop because he’s telling you not listening to your leg. That’s when to punish him. Be sure to give him a place to go by a slight release of the reins. That is the hardest if you are scared as any of us might be. But the basic disobedience is not going forward, second disobedience is not going straight. Have to fix the forward first to fix the direction change…meaning you can’t steer a car that’s not moving.

If you are lucky, if you immediately tell him he can’t stop with the stick behind the leg, just once, don’t tap it, smack him, he’s not going to persue the issue. Probably surprise the heck out if him. He knows better.

This is excellent, thank you findeight.

[TWH_Girl]

Don’t look at me…my spooker is for sale. He’s lovely and sweet but he’s got a spook and spin or bolt that has dismounted me a few too many times. It makes me anxious, and that makes him anxious, and we all know where that leads. He’s a sensitive worrier, and I’m a causal. pleasure rider with some limitations from all my stupid falls. I just can’t ride that kind of horse well- as I have found out. I decided I kinda like myself and no horse is worth continued falls off of just to be a better rider. Everyone is different in how to handle a spooker though. Whatever works for you is the right answer.

If this is a lesson horse you may have other options. Can the trainer can spend more time riding this horse outdoors to get him worked past some of his outdoor issues. What is the horse’s age and training level? what does he get for feed? is there a chance he gets too much grain or alfalfa? Does he get enough turn out? All of these things are factors from what I have found.