Spooking: Horse or Rider?

[centaursam]

The horse I mainly ride has an issue with randomly spooking at various objects: wheelbarrows, trash cans, a chair.

His go-to reaction is to come to a dead stop, whip around in a circle, and start walking in the opposite direction. Usually, a light tap with the whip thwarts his plan and we’re on our merry way with no other problems.

Every now and then, however, something will effect him really bad and he’ll spin around quickly and take off trotting at a high speed in the other direction and using the whip doesn’t really do much.

How much of this is an issue on his part vs. an issue on my part with respect to dominance (if that’s the right word) and general horsemanship? Are these tests to see if he can get away with it or is it part of a larger issue?

**This only happens outside the arena, never in. He doesn’t really have any issues with jumps thankfully.

[Calzini16]

Spooking isn’t a dominance issue. What happened before what happened happened? Horses are prey animals so if they’re scared of something, the fear is for their life. As riders, it is our job to help them understand that the chair, wheelbarrow, whatever isn’t life threatening. We need to pay close attention to what happens before the spin and be able to manage it before it turns into a big ordeal. Just simply tapping him with a whip and carrying on isn’t teaching him anything other than that he can’t trust you to reassure him through scary things. Notice the spook before it happens and guide him through facing it. Support him. His stopping, spinning etc isn’t a plan. It’s a reaction to save his life.

[ClassyJumper]

I think you really have to consider the particular horse’s personality when dealing with a spooker. My gelding would occasionally spook but in general hes not a worrier so he really just needed a kick and some redirection and to be put to work.

My mare on the other hand is a huge worrier. The best thing I have found is to not look at what she is/may spook at. I will kind of glance down when approaching or passing something “scary”. Not really correct to be looking down all the time, but I also dont want to be looking at whatever she is because it seems to reinforce her fear that it is something to worry about.

[centaursam]

@Calzini16 Thats the thing, there is nothing other than the object that spooks him. Nothing else can be going on around him but as soon as we near the object, he’ll stop, spin around, and go the other direction.

Nothing really happens before the spin either, he’ll either slowly come to a stop in which case it’s easier to know it’s coming, or it’s usually a sudden stop and then spinaroo.

[Scribbler]

@centaursam

The horse I mainly ride has an issue with randomly spooking at various objects: wheelbarrows, trash cans, a chair.

His go-to reaction is to come to a dead stop, whip around in a circle, and start walking in the opposite direction. Usually, a light tap with the whip thwarts his plan and we’re on our merry way with no other problems.

Every now and then, however, something will effect him really bad and he’ll spin around quickly and take off trotting at a high speed in the other direction and using the whip doesn’t really do much.

How much of this is an issue on his part vs. an issue on my part with respect to dominance (if that’s the right word) and general horsemanship? Are these tests to see if he can get away with it or is it part of a larger issue?

**This only happens outside the arena, never in. He doesn’t really have any issues with jumps thankfully.

You need to be proactive and ride the horse more between hand and leg. Ride him so that he cannot turn. He can stop and think about the thing but he cannot turn. I am riding an older mare that will do this on the trail. She will stop and duck her head. If I tilt forward or am asleep at the wheel she will then drop her shoulder and do a slow motion spin. It could definitely unseat some riders.

She still stops and stares but I have dedicated myself to keep correct schooling session equitation on the trail and to monitor her ears at all times. When she stops I sit up, I apply a very light leg aid, and wait for her to get up her courage.

Her spooks tend to be more about her overall mood and about silly things like sparrows on the ground and falling leaves. Once at dusk we came past an injured Great Blue Heron flapping in a ditch. I just got off and handwalked her.

Why does your horse only spook outside?

The arena is his comfort zone and like many good performance horses (including the older mare )he has become a bit agoraphobic. Also things get moved around outside. My very bomb proof trail mare absolutely will notice every new stick and stone on the trail but rarely be bothered by them.

Also people tend to ride more relaxed outside of the ring. It’s fine to be on looser contact but you should never be daydreaming or slouching out of correct equitation or not riding.

As I recall you were the athletically gifted young man adult beginner that was making fast progress with the physical side of riding. I remember a long thread where we were cheering you on?

Now might be the time for you to start reading up on horse behaviour and psychology beyond what you are likely to get in even the best jumping programs.

I really like Dr. Andrew Maccleans books and clinics and many people on COTH like Warwick Schillers groundwork videos. Youd probably find this fascinating at this point in your riding where you are now thinking about problem solving independently.

[Ponyclubrocks]

I have had good luck with using shoulder in as I approach anything that I know from experience will cause my horse an issue. Her signature “move” is to freeze and refuse to go toward the object in question. If I put her into a shoulder in the second I sense any reluctance on her part, and maybe throw in a few steps of leg yield for good measure then I get her right past the object in question with no issues. If the object is on my right, then I treat the right side as if that is where the rail is, so her eyes are ever so slightly to the left, and she starts listening to my inside leg asking her to give at the rib cage. And the leg yield is actually into the scary object but she is so busy listening to my aids that she forgets about the scary thing. The key (besides having a horse schooled to the lateral aids) is to catch it early before it becomes a big deal and she has already gone to frozen mode! Best of luck to you.

[findeight]

Do you have an instructor/trainer and do other people ride this horse? Repeated spooking, turning and trotting off is the horse telling you they don’t care to work any more and leaving and you not using your aids ( rein, leg, seat) to a) keep him focused on you to block the spook and b) you not using the aids to correct and clearly direct him if his attention does wander and failing to correct his actions so he learns he can’t just leave if he feels like it.

Hes learned he can do this because his riders have rewarded his disobedience and let him decide when and where he wants to work. Or not work. Because he’s not really bolting off and/or spinning you right out of the saddle, don’t think he’s trying to hurt you, he’s just changing the subject with you so he can keep control. And it works very well for him to call the shots on when and where he works. His riders reward him by letting him, every time he gets away with it, he wins.

Dominance is not really the right word, that’s more for ground work. You need to communicate to him via the aids and back it up with correction when he blows you off.

The time for action is BEFORE he stops. Leg to go forward, pick him up with the hand to block the direction change and seat firmly in the saddle to give you the strength to keep the leg and hand where they belong. When you feel like he’s going to stop anyway? Stick behind the leg… and don’t tap, tap, tap, smack him and leave him alone. You want to use the stick to reinforce your leg aid and telling him to go forward, stick is not an aid to direct but a correction to back up ignored aids. Hope that makes sense.

You telling us you tap him with the stick after he has already “ spooked” and is trotting off towards the barn I’m guessing tells me you need to take a few flat only lessons, specifically in using the aids to keep the horse forward, focused on you and to block a spook in the first place with keg and rein aids and let him know he’s made a mistake and correct him if he blows you off.

Its an old school horse trick also seen in novice “trained” horses. Usually the resident Attitude Adjuster fir school horses when I boarded in teaching barns, hardest thing was getting them to pull the stunts with me. Second I picked up the reins and put a leg on them, they knew better.You need to refine your riding with some flat lessons so he knows better with you. Get with your trainer/ instructor,

Keep in mind if he’s got other riders, you probably will have to remind him you won’t put up with it every time you get on.

[NoSuchPerson]

@Ponyclubrocks

I have had good luck with using shoulder in as I approach anything that I know from experience will cause my horse an issue. Her signature “move” is to freeze and refuse to go toward the object in question. If I put her into a shoulder in the second I sense any reluctance on her part, and maybe throw in a few steps of leg yield for good measure then I get her right past the object in question with no issues.

This is my go-to.

centaursam, you’re getting a variety of answers here because the precise remedy is a function of both your riding ability and the horse’s motivation for spooking. The best person to ask is the instructor/trainer you’re working with because that person knows you and the horse.

Smart school horses pick up all kinds of evasions to get out of work; faux spooking is one of them. The remedy for this behavior is different than the remedy for the horse who is truly fearful. And, the remedy that an experienced rider has the ability to apply may be very different than the remedy an inexperienced rider has the ability to apply.

[Scribbler]

Yes, I forgot about riding past in shoulder in, it works really well ( if you and horse know shoulder in).

[Mac123]

Spooking is something that can have a variety of causes, and how you deal with it depends on the cause.

While “dominance” may be the wrong word, spooking isn’t always truly a fear issue.

It can be due to true fear, a pain response, distraction, testing of the rider, laziness, a desire to get out of the task at hand…I’m sure I’m missing some!

How I deal with the spook really depends on the reason it’s happening. A spook originating from a true fear response is an entirely different ride than a spook that happens because the rider doesn’t have the horse on the aids and the horse knows he can spook at the interesting object in the corner because it’s a fun game. Etc.

It’s hard to know from your description what his spook is from. The spin makes it seem like a more genuine surprise, while the walking away suggests he really isn’t that scared. Even trotting away. If I had to guess he may be surprised and initially and then be like “Oh, just a bird, silly me.” If that’s really the case, I’d just make sure he’s more on the aids during the ride. Make him more focused on you, make sure he’s between your hand and legs. Being on the aids to start with limits their ability to get away from you with the spin. Then, the second you feel the spin - say to the right - happening, you need to instantly be there with the left rein pulling him back onto your track. Don’t just sit there and let it happen. Proper timing is a skill. Do your best to stop that spin and put him back on your track or path to ride past the object. Use whichever aids he is blowing through - in a spin to the right, you need left rein, right leg. If he tries to stop, use leg. If he tries to go, use hand. Only through correcting the spook, stopping it when you can, and then addressing the resistances to the aids, will improve it.

But I’d have a different answer if he were truly scared, or in pain, or being really naughty. If it’s him being a little surprised but then just taking advantage a bit, the above is how I’d address it.

[findeight]

@centaursam

The horse I mainly ride has an issue with randomly spooking at various objects: wheelbarrows, trash cans, a chair.

His go-to reaction is to come to a dead stop, whip around in a circle, and start walking in the opposite direction. Usually, a light tap with the whip thwarts his plan and we’re on our merry way with no other problems.

Every now and then, however, something will effect him really bad and he’ll spin around quickly and take off trotting at a high speed in the other direction and using the whip doesn’t really do much.

How much of this is an issue on his part vs. an issue on my part with respect to dominance (if that’s the right word) and general horsemanship? Are these tests to see if he can get away with it or is it part of a larger issue?

**This only happens outside the arena, never in. He doesn’t really have any issues with jumps thankfully.

I’m sure what is described here, coming to a dead stop, “ whip around in a circle…and walking the opposite direction or “ taking off trotting at high speed” does not indicate a terrified horse. And no, using the whip on one trotting away with the rider isn’t going to get him to slow or stop. That should only be used to stop the dead stop.

Hence suggesting reviewing correct use of aids and basic flatwork for what sounds like a good hearted but novice rider on a very clever veteran later information added pulls the stunt only out of the ring without instructor supervising. Wouldn’t hurt to put a stronger rider on him for a tune up either.

[TBKite]

If the horse is managing to turn around and walk or trot away, you need to work on your reaction time or his respect for your aids, or both. He’s allowed to be startled but he needs to stay on your line of travel.

Make sure you turn him back in the opposite direction he spun, even if it’s easier to just make a complete loop.

It’s not really about dominance, but it does suggest he doesn’t believe in your authority enough to turn his safety over to you, if that distinction makes sense. I do also think some horses can learn to spook as a way of changing the subject if they are bored, sore, anxious, tired, or otherwise want to stop the current exercise.

[rockonxox]

Some horses are sketchier out of the ring vs in it. Is he spooking or barn sour and has learned your number? I would agree that if he is stopping and pausing and then whirling around then that is more the horse knows how to play his cards. A horse that is spooked will usually leap in the air, move sideways from the object, or immediately whirl and bolt. They don’t just stop and take their time trotting the other way.

Dominance and effective riding are not the same.

[centaursam]

@Scribbler @findeight As always I appreciate the great advice coming from both of you and you’ve addressed some good points. He doesn’t give me any problems in the arena but every once in a while something will catch his eye and he’ll make a slight move to get away from it such as a pole on the ground against the fence. This is usually easy to telegraph and I wouldn’t necessarily call it a spook, it’s more like he just thinks about it and a little leg pressure corrects it. Something about being outside the arena, however, and random things set him off. And I don’t tap him after he spins around but when he bolts to a spot since I know what’s coming afterwards. I guess the key is learning how to read his behavior and act before he stops as you have said.

I’m definitely more relaxed in the arena as I’m sure he is too so that doesn’t help much. I do need to become more educated on horse behavior, I’ll pick up some books and watch videos

Other riders in the past have ridden this horse but as of right now it’s exclusively me and my trainer and has been for a while. From what I’m told he used to be really bad with his spooking, even in the arena, but has since vastly improved. I have no other issues with him and it doesn’t happen every ride.

@Ponyclubrocks This sounds like a great strategy, will give this a try next time I ride.

@Mac123 I think he’s just surprised/taking advantage as you’ve indicated and not genuinely scared. I’ll be more cognizant of my aids next time I ride and will work on my timing. Thank you for the tips.

@rockonxox @TBKite I guess dominance is the wrong word (didn’t know how to describe it), but I think what you’ve described with respect to him believing he can get away with things/not respecting authority as well as a deficiency on my part is correct.

[greysfordays]

I have a pretty spooky horse myself. I had typically been doing the shoulder in trick and it worked ok. But recently, I’ve found that softening my hands and just squeezing the everloving heck out of the side opposite the spooky object works much better.

Sometimes I think trying to ride him really in between my hand and leg just makes him think there’s danger ahead. Melting and just using my leg to guide works much better for us. At the shows I’m probably riding with half the rein contact I used to and he has been going so much better as a result. So I would just caution that you might be pulling more than you think.

[chestnutmarebeware]

To me, spooking is 100% a horse issue. Dealing with it (or mitigating the effects) is 100% a rider issue.I’ve had many horses over the years and some spooked while others didn’t. My riding style didn’t change, so I doubt I was preventing or causing the behavior over the years. You can keep a horse’s mind on his work with shoulder-in, etc., but some ponies are going to spook, regardless.

As prey animals, you can’t really blame them.

[rockonxox]

@greysfordays

I have a pretty spooky horse myself. I had typically been doing the shoulder in trick and it worked ok. But recently, I’ve found that softening my hands and just squeezing the everloving heck out of the side opposite the spooky object works much better.

Yep! My trainer always has me “hug them with your legs”.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I have a periodically spooky younger horse. She’s 6.

I definitely concur with others about about the usefulness of shoulder in and leg yielding, and the importance of riding leg to hand. If you aren’t very comfortable with lateral work yet OP, an even more basic idea is to do several walk trot transitions… 5 steps, transition, 5 more steps, transition… all the way around the arena for several minutes. Just get the horse focused on you and what you are asking. Sometimes it’s good to work in an area away from whatever they are spooning at, so a bunch of transitions and get your mount REALLY focused on you in a non harsh way, and gradually work your way back to the spooky area. While just riding your transitions.

Another thing to play with is flexion and counterflexion at the trot. That can work too, and keep the horse loose and more focused on you and your aids.

My horse actually has a tendency to be more difficult in terms of spooking at the same thing over and over when working in a familiar arena. She’s smart, and a bit obsessive, and notices when something has been moved around, and worries about it. So we tend to have to ride on through a certain area of the arena, over and over and over again for ten minutes plus at least once a week. I’ve learned not to get frustrated or impatient… not to harass her… just figure out the best way to get her focused on me, in front of my leg, and as supple as possible via all the different stuff I described.

Anyway… that’s my experience. I actually like my mare’s periodically spooky quirks now… it’s made me a better rider and I get a lot of satisfaction about riding through it in a more effective, but relaxed and positive way than I used to

[centaursam]

@chestnutmarebeware “To me, spooking is 100% a horse issue. Dealing with it (or mitigating the effects) is 100% a rider issue.”

Didn’t think of it this way until now, great point. I think I always just assumed anytime a horse had an issue, it’s the riders fault no matter what.

[rockonxox]

@centaursam

@chestnutmarebeware “To me, spooking is 100% a horse issue. Dealing with it (or mitigating the effects) is 100% a rider issue.”

Didn’t think of it this way until now, great point. I think I always just assumed anytime a horse had an issue, it’s the riders fault no matter what.

Horses aren’t machines. They are animals. They have personalities and quirks just like humans. You are right in that sometimes the rider isn’t asking right, but sometimes horses are horses and do horsey things