Spooky horse, advice?? thoughts?? any experience with eye issues??

[sonnylady]

Thoughts or ideas?

Horse in question is owned by a woman who could make even the quietest horses nervous. Horse has been a bit spooky and up until this point i’ve attributed this mostly to his owner’s personality as well as the set up at the previous facility which contained many blind spots, lots of random/loud noises and animals (a loud goat included) that would pop out of nowhere. We took him to a show at a scary indoor facility and though he was a little overwhelmed at first and was a lot to handle (very dark, a lot going on) he did settle and by the time we jumped he didn’t even bat an eye over any of the fences. all fences had lots of brush and were very naturally decorated, very “scary”.

Since this time, the horse has moved to a different facility, (only an outdoor which he seems to really enjoy) and i thought we’d gotten past the looky side of things and that he’d previously just been uncomfortable in an indoor with everything going on…however he is still spooky and it’s very odd and inconsistent (when he’s not spooking he’s a total lazy deadhead that you really have to work to get going, very consistent and just a very easy easy ride).

There are times when he’s reacted to things outside of the ring which i think were justified maybe 50% of the time but other times, we’ll be going up to a cross rail with one flower box (which he’s already done many times in the same week) and get very scared/nervous and either rushes it or does a driveway. He wont do this every time and it’s very inconsistent. Some days the simple jumps really seem to freak him out and other days he doesn’t seem to care one bit. I don’t really see any patterns based on weather, time of day etc.

At first i really just thought the horse needed a mental break from his owner as she is a lot to handle and i think when she is nervous (which is not all the time and they were making significant progress) she frazzles him. However, she was gone for a lengthy amount of time and with regular rides he was overall being pretty good but still had moments where he clearly overreacted to something so simple as a basic gate that he had jumped perfectly the day previous.

When i consider the fact that jumps were never an issue for him before it makes me wonder if there is potentially a vision issue which is exasperated by a lack of confidence in his rider.

we have had him adjusted and tried “calming” supplements. horse is in a regular program receiving plenty of great rides and turnout throughout the week.

thoughts? ideas??

[oldernewbie]

Is he a gray? If so, have you noticed any melanomas? They can get them in their eyes as I have found out the very hard way…

A long shot but thought I’d ask.

[IPEsq]

I knew a horse like that with the jumps. He also spooked at more understandable things from time to time but, while being a nervous type, he was not unpredictable except at the jumps, or ground poles, or flower boxes, or whatever. We had his vision checked and couldn’t figure it out. It was his stifles.

My horse also became extra spooky when arthritis in his neck flared up. The spooking was one of the top 2 symptoms (the second being more of a refusal to go one way vs the other) that made us take images of his neck.

[Covergirl15]

When he spooks, is it an honest, “I’m scared” spook, or is he using it as an evasion? A bit different bc I ride dressage, but my old horse used to spook and bolt randomly. We had him checked physically on all fronts (vet, saddle, chiro, etc) and there was absolutely nothing wrong. We figured out that he hates dressage–once we switched him to the hunter ring, all the naughty behavior stopped bc he wasn’t he liked his job. That could explain why this horse wasn’t as spooky at the scarier jumps–he had more to keep himself occupied and wasn’t bored enough to spook and misbehave. I’m not sure, but an idea to consider (:

[findeight]

Need more info. How long has owner had him? Was he this way when she got him? Define “in a regular program”, who rides him and how often?

Its easy for timid or nervous riders to teach horses to spook because rider quits asking them to do something they don’t care to when horse spooks, horse thinks it’s rewarded for spooking by getting to quit. As easy as it is for them to learn that, it’s twice as hard to get rid of the habit and it takes a loooong time and many hours of consistent riding to make sure the horse is corrected all the time, every time by every rider.

On that note, what do the various riders do when the horse spooks? Get after it or tolerate it? Frequently spooky horses ignore the forward aids and benefit from solid and correct flatwork where obedience is expected and other behavior or evasion corrected all the time, every time by every rider and those riders cannot be scared to insist on good behavior and apply appropriate correction.

IME, that’s much more common then physical problems when a nervous or timid rider is involved…horse walks all over them, figuratively and literally. Tries to walk all over others too. Often progress under another rider is lost when a timid rider boards and it’s back to square one.

Some horses are by nature a little more reactive but solid riders work through it and largely ignore it instead of allowing it to escalate. My mare is like that, loves to spook and try to suck you into a fight, changing the subject to evade schooling. You fall for it, she wins and you aren’t getting anything productive done the rest of the ride.

[Martina]

Well, here’s my experience. Your situation sounds very similar to mine and years ago I also was wondering if it was eyes, Lyme, ulcers, or SURELY something other than behavior.

What I have learned is that #1 my horse is spooky. And riding and training a spooky horse, especially jumping, is a process. No quick fix.

Spooking is my horse’s ‘go to’ response when he is worried or mad. Sometimes it is a genuine “holy crap what was that!” I have learned over the years to know the difference. I don’t mind the “holy crap” spook. But I do mind the ‘I’m mad’ spook. But I’ve learned how to respond to the ‘I’m mad’ spook.

#2 I learned that there is indeed a vicious cycle with a spooking horse and the rider’s reaction. When the spook happens don’t think ‘spook’ think instead ‘he is not yielding to my inside leg’ or ‘he is behind my leg heading to the fence’ or ‘he is blowing through my half halt’. The focus should be on going forward; spooking is focusing on going backward.

My horse learned to expect to stop going on the line we were on and for me to contort my body in the tack to counter what he was doing, pull on the reins, etc. I rode with someone who just said ride through it, keep him on the line. Once I did that, it really took him by surprise and forced him to focus on what was ahead of him. It ws ugly but it helped.

#3 I have learned to accept the fact that my horse is spooky, and these are his reactions, again as in #1, when he is worried or mad. An instructor recently told me the goal is to let him know that even if he is surprised, he can still jump, that he has the athletic ability to jump even if spooks all the way to the fence at a backward crawl. So in the training keep him straight at the fence that is spooky (no drivebys) even if he doesn’t jump. Then after he does, do it again until he goes over on a loose rein in a quiet canter. You’ll want to have an instructor with you for this.

Good luck!

[NancyM]

I treated my spooky one with generic omeprazole last spring, for a month. That decision cost me $100. He is a different horse now… “fixed”. His spooking did not make sense, it was irrational, he’s not that sort of horse, really. But the spooking was pretty bad, he could be quite unridable, with a prop, wheel and bolt, at things that were not scary (white planks stacked outside the ring, etc). He had no other signs of ulcers, not touchy on his sides, no colic, not a cribber, normal poop. But I thought it was worth the cost of half a bottle of omeprazole to give it a try, and it paid off. Now I can catch his attention, put it back onto me when I want to, need to do that. I can “get” his inside ear onto me, rather than ignoring me, and putting it onto something that he was going to spook at.

[Foxglove6]

My trainer had a very nice hunter/jumper who was jumping really well for awhile. Then he started to drift to one side before every jump. He’d do it more with new jumps but not with something he’d done several times in a row. With a confident rider he did it less but still liked to bend his neck in that same direction. The vet checked his vision and he was blind in one eye. This doesn’t sound like the same situation with vision issues but you can always have the vet check if you are suspicious.

[findeight]

OP, is the owner willing to spend on some basic vetwork to rule physical problems in or out? Or spend on actual meds if simple tests reveal Lyme or a good possibility of ulcers? Kind of stuck if it’s not your horse.

Maybe best thing is this owner gets a more suitable horse instead of spending money on lessons and training. You can fix or greatly improve the horse, the rider not so much and that rider is most of the problem if it’s not physical…if she won’t pay for the tests and possible vetwork it’s all on her. Sounds like you might be a young trainer starting out? Some clients are like beating your head against the wall, never get anywhere.

You need to develop a sort of personal detachment if you train or catch ride, can’t fix everything for owners that need fixing more then the horse and, because it’s not your horse? Your hands are tied. That a reality of riding other people’s horses whether paid, in return for labor or free.

That’s why many trainers insist on handling client vet and farrier scheduling, each horse under their banner represents them and their business in a sport where reputation is everything. They can’t afford a horse repeatedly acting like a dink or anything but properly trimmed/shod, sound, obvious good health in public representing them.

[vxf111]

Are the times he’s spooky perhaps times the lighting is changing/shadows are changing?

My corpra nigra cyst experience, in case it’s helpful…

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?405051-Sudden-Vision-Problems-Been-to-the-vet-Looking-for-ideas-similar-experiences-LONG

[fordtraktor]

Many horses are more spooky at home when they see or imagine little changes to the world they know, than they are at “away” things like the show because there everything is new and they are too awed by the whole thing to pick one thing to spook at. I’ve had several horses (because I like hot horses) that were angels at shows and still couldn’t trot once around my ring at home without a spook. At stuff like a white butterfly (still will set off my 12 year old TB I’ve had for 9 years every time).

These horses do not make particularly good partners for nervous, fretful ammies like it sounds like this horse’s current owner is. I would check out the vet things to rule them out (always a good first step) but then think about whether this partnership is really a good one. Someone will not give two figs for a little spookiness in an otherwise good partner. They often come in the form of brave teenagers, or an ammy who has been riding a long time and doesn’t have the fear factor. And this person could find a horse who could care less about outside stimulus. Like my kid’s pony – rode her for the first time all summer the other day and my other horse GALLOPED by her in the field right after I got on. She never even tensed a muscle. I have never seen her spook. She is perfect for this kind of rider. This is supposed to be fun.

Also consider things like sore hocks or other leg issues, not just eyes. Some horses will jump a jump fine for a bit, then it starts to be sore to jump and it will say “no, the last few times that made my hocks hurt, I’m not doing it again.” It looks “random” from the side but it isn’t. That could easily explain spooking at jumps after jumping them fine. horse is probably looking for the scary thing that made his legs hurt before. “Not going to let that mystery thing bite me again!”

Or if the owner tenses up about anything (worried about the course, a wind blowing, work, anything), some horses will feed off that and look around for what scary thing is scaring mom, not realizing they are the scary thing. This kind of issue = not suitable horse for a rider that tenses often.

[dog_amp_horsemom]

I do think people can make a horse spookier - horses are afraid when the person riding them is not confident.
There can be a multiple of things that are bothering a horse that can make him spooky - kissing spines, genetics play a role ect.
There are horses that have medical issues that are Not spooky - so I personally think it is mostly genetic and they just need a confident rider and they need to be worked six days a wk. so they are too tired to think about what is out there to scare them!!

[ItchyRichie]

Does your horse get enough turn out?

We had a really fancy ottb and we do ~14 hrs of night turn out, but he had really really bad feet. His right front was a little more upright than his left and they were just crumbly terrible feet. He would get abscesses and there’s a lot of asphalt at our barn so they would get dry and we could not get him to keep shoes on, especially since he played really hard outside. We had to reduce his turnout to keep his shoes on and keep him sound. He always had a little spook but he was never ridiculous about it. When his turnout was cut short it got sooo bad. He would do 180s out of nowhere. I’ve got great balance and I can stay on lots of wild rides and he spun me off twice just doing a 180 for no reason which he never did before. It sucked because he was sooo fancy but no one wanted to buy him because of his terrible feet and spook so finally my trainer just gave him to some people in NY. He lives outside 24/7 on nice grass, stopped losing shoes and spooking and has been champion at every show he’s been to

He had the kind of spook though where he was worse when it was quiet. Like one time when he spun me off I was riding him in our little indoor alone and someone came through the doorway to the ring somewhat abruptly and he did a 180 and ran away. Or if you were riding and it was quiet and someone shut a car door he’d jump out of his skin. But at the shows he never spooked at anything. He’s a big puppy dog and he’s super pretty so strangers would always come up to pet him and he liked being the center of attention and he was never shy about asking people to scratch his braids
I miss him even if his spooking drove me nuts lol
https://www.instagram.com/p/8LsiXQzVgV/?taken-by=ponyzardx

[sonnylady]

Not a grey, he’s a chestnut and have not noticed any melanomas.

[sonnylady]

Unfortunately i’m not sure if she’ll spend the money to inject =[

[sonnylady]

[QUOTE=oldernewbie;8815481]
Is he a gray? If so, have you noticed any melanomas? They can get them in their eyes as I have found out the very hard way…

A long shot but thought I’d ask.[/QUOTE]

not a grey, he’s a chestnut with no melanomas to be found

[Lion1024]

I think I actually follow this company on instagram. Checking now…