Glad you have confidence in the trainer. Not saying you are wrong to, just have seen enough shady practices in the horse business that I have become jaded. Google Resperine. Has long acting sedative effects. I’ve seen it given to horses before. Can have effects for several weeks. I’m sure there are more out there that can do the same…
Do you have electric fence or water bucket/trough heaters? Could he be reacting to stray voltage?
This is offered more as food for thought then advice, because this is all up to you.
On rereading this, bought my first horse in…like…1969 or 70. Seen a lot, heard a lot experienced a lot, always boarded out, everything from self care at a private backyard to basic boarding barns to layup/retiree barns, Western show barns, Arab show barns, an ASB show barn ( with a Western horse, care was outstanding and they didn’t care as long as I stayed out of their way), H/J show barns and mostly with a budget ranging from shoestring to decent but never extravagant. Did a bit if free lancing, bought and sold. BTDT gave the T shirts to Goodwill decades ago. Made plenty of mistakes too.
True, newhorsitis does kick in after about a month long honeymoon and this horse has had some drastic changes after not having much of a job for years, so I’m trying to stay on the high road here. BUT…never known any trainers or anybody operating a for profit horse training, breeding or buy/sell sell dealer barn business it any combination of the above operating in accordance with IRS regulations to keep sound, well behaved, salable horses around doing nothing. They can’t afford to.
Not for a wife ride, not for a friend ride, not because they don’t have time to ride it. And ask any trainers kid how many horses their folks sold on out from underneath them. Because it’s a for profit business, not a hobby. That’s in the back of my mind here. WHY was this business owned horse hanging around for so long and did this gal switch to Western on another horse or just give up trying to squeeze in riding???
Not really jumping to the conclusion trainer deliberately tried to get you on an unsuitable horse for a rerider keeping at home but…just doesn’t add up. Maybe he meant well and was trying to work with your budget but, I dunno. I wouldn’t have sold this one to you knowing you’d be working by yourself at home.
And my first thought was I don’t like the 30 day time frame here and second thought was this is not new behavior in this horse. He’s good at it. Maybe he never did it at trainers, maybe the gal rode him out of it, maybe he never pulled that stunt with her. But he knows how. Big believer in past history predicting current issues, as some of my mistakes proved.
We all, as humans, want to please those we respect. Sometimes that colors our thinking when making decisions based on trainer suggestions. They aren’t primarily our BFFs, everything they see and do is filtered through business needs. Nothing evil about that but if you think they are doing it for your continued close friendship? Usually not. More like any one sided relationship, each side coming at it with totally different expectations and perceptions.
Its also hard to admit a horse might just not be suitable for you and your skill set or maybe for whatever jobs he’s had before. As a rerider keeping at home without any help, this horse just might not be right for your current skills and situation. Don’t be afraid to admit that and if the trainer here would take it back? You should consider that option before too much time passes. We don’t want you to get hurt here, whether horse means it or not. Might be in a bit over your head here.
Oh, one other thing. You said when horse sits back in the crossties, you were '“not in a position to send him forward”! I should hope to heaven you were not in a position to send him forward. Please, never get caught behind a sitter backer in crossties. EVER. One of my many mistakes.
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I did not read every response so I am sure someone else already said it, but the first thing I would do is try treating for ulcers for a week to see if you see any improvement, if you do continue the treatment if not keep looking.
A lot of horses get ulcers when there are changes in their Ives.
I just wanted to chime in and say that I wouldn’t necessarily be suspicious. IMO, that’s the easy out instead of looking at all the variables that have changed for this horse that could be creating this behavior or allowing it to come to the surface. The idea of a drugged horse puts all the responsibility on the seller and removes all of the subjectivity of purchasing a sentient being that has its own brain.
I was just talking to a first time buyer at our barn, giving them my list for the ‘perfect’ horse purchase. Rideability is on that list, but I also like to see as many of the variables in the current horse’s situation match the situation they are bringing it too. Grain type, hay type, turn-out, buddies, work schedule, environment, shoeing, weather, etc. Every single one of those things can be changed…and can create a drastic change in a horse…and how often do buyers not think about that and go directly to ‘he was drugged when I tried him’ to explain a change in behavior?
Anecdotally, I bought my first horse from a sales barn that knew little about him. Horse was very green, but good for my trial rides. He was also skinny. The sales barn was 5 hours away, in a very hot climate. I brought him home to the beach that was about 40 degrees cooler, got him fat, put him in a stall, tried for some turn out but he just ran and ran and ran, so ended that attempt pretty quick. He was a different horse after 3 months. Not terrible, but spooky. He needed to be ridden 6 days a week to keep him rideable. He did ‘mature’ into a 5 day a week horse, but he was always pretty darn spooky.
Fast forward a few years of this routine and I decided to put him in a pasture full time. He became a horse that could only be ridden once a week and be fine. There was still a spook, but it was minimal and he wasn’t nearly as commited as before.
All this to say, he may be a nice horse and there is a good chance that he wasn’t drugged…you’ve just made A LOT of changes in his routine. You may be able to sort all of those out…you may not. Horses can be very different for different riders. Your trainer’s wife may never have experienced what you are…or it may have been eliminated quickly with a confident, clear ride.
Also, FWIW - based on your description of his situation, I can fully see someone keeping him around for a bit, even if he was sound and issue free. I can also see the trainer being excited about getting him off the books and maybe pushing a little too hard to get him gone when the buyer wasn’t perfect.
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This is one of the things I like about these people. Yes, they are a for profit barn, but they really do put the horses first. I have seen him have multiple horses for sale, that he has pulled people away from because they were not suitable. Has found a much better match (& often not one that he was selling). They have never sold their kids horses out from under them. They have gotten moved to their lesson program, but if they were good to them, they get to stay on the property. This is why the wife has an outside job…
I am well aware of the shady side of the horse business, Have seen quite a bit of it myself over the years & these people are not perfect, but they are very much honest.
I know it is me, hopefully the change in environment is contributing & he will settle some as he gets used to things. If he doesn’t, he will go back, but as much as I enjoyed him during the honeymoon period I really hope I can get it to work. I looked at quite a few & he was the only one that I tried that I was really enjoying. All the others were either really nice, but too much horse, or so used up they were completely dead to aids or just flat uncomfortable to ride.
I highly recommend Warwick Schiller videos. There are several videos on YouTube you can watch for free.
He is a western trainer and he has a good common sense approach.
If he starts pulling back in the crossties tack him up in a stall. Pulling back like that is a hard habit to break.
Hope this helps.
Good luck
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There is a saying when you adopt a dog of 3 days, 3 weeks and 3 months. These are periods when the animal can be expected to change behavior dramatically, as they adapt in their new environment. The first three days they are often petrified, then the next three weeks afraid to act out. Then they spend the next three months understanding and finding their place in the pack hierarchy-ie lots of testing and potential naughtiness. I dont know what these time spans would be in a horse, but I could imagine a similar type of pattern, so perhaps you are now seeing him a bit more “true” to self as he becomes comfortable in expressing both his insecurities and trying to understand his place in the new “herd” made up of the two of you.
Im going through a similar transition with a little pony mare I was given. As she settles in, she puts on a facade of being very challenging and disobedient, but then you see that underneath there is a lot of insecurity there. Every week, we explore new areas. lol, she even bucked me off this week. But once we get passed each new hurdle, she is very honest in her effort to obey, she is just looking for certainty and clarity.
I had a horse a bit like your but worse with respect to being fearful and anxious. He would be like a giant puppy, totally chill, but once he became afraid, would become explosive and even violent in his efforts to evade what he feared.
To help calm him, he needed extremely consistent work and routine-once he understood what to expect,he was actually very lazy and calm. Anything new needed to be introduced slowly to give him time to process and think about it, so his brain wouldnt shut down and panic. He got scared at all the same stuff you might expect horses to get scared at, but he was a bit special due to the enormity of his response-thrashing, bolting, and almost trampling people underfoot. He also showed a bad pattern of having a single scary thing become ingrained as a continual scary thing forever more, so we had to take a lot of time to undo scary things once they happened, via calm, continual repetition. Thus the importance of slowly introducing new things.
He would directly feed off of your behavior-if you were stressed, he would immediately become stressed. When riding him, the advice given by another person is apt-ignore the scary thing. If I looked at the scary thing, the horse would follow my gaze, if I ignored it, he would follow my lead and ignore it. So when going past the scary spot, just ignore it with your eyes or your body. Since you are in charge, let him know by ignoring it that it isnt relevant.
I no longer have the spooky horse, but have continued to try and understand how I could have better addressed.
I have found a series of articles on innate temperament to be interesting, as he fell into one of the most challenging categories-a fearful horse who was also very “aggressive” in the authors verbiage: https://dressagetoday.com/theory/horse_personalities_basic_types_030509
Perhaps understanding where your fellow falls temperamentally can help you understand the root of the behavior.
Ive also been trying to understand how to better address this type of horse and found this interesting video by a trainer and it has some interesting ideas about how to address an anxious fearful horse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVcI-Sx3kJE
And of course, finding a good trainer may be essential. Good Luck!
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Sending along good vibes to you!! I completely understand what you’re going through.
As an adult ‘re-rider’ who took a break from riding and the show ring for many years, I got back into riding about a year ago and was finally able to purchase my lifelong ‘dream horse’. Long story short, she is a beautiful mare with an extensive ‘A’ show record, and her previous owner who had her since she was imported as a 3 year old made riding her look like a piece of cake. Surely I’d be able to pick right up where they left off, right?! HA. Not so much.
Enter: me.
Rather ironically, it seemed like as soon as the payment for her left my bank account she morphed into this spook machine, ‘looking’ for things to act ‘stupid’ about 8/10 times I’d ride her. The first month I had her, there were multiple times I’d walk her back into the barn nearly in tears, frustrated because the one major ‘deal breaker’ for the horse I bought was that I did NOT want anything spooky.
I couldn’t make any sense of it - she’d been to every major outdoor and indoor show on the east coast winning everything, and I could barely make it through a 30 minute schooling session without her jumping out of her shoes at stupid things like people walking around the farm or other horses coming into the arena. What happened to this “perfect unicorn” of a horse that everyone had told me she was?! The first few months I had her made me feel terrible, as if I had made an awful mistake…not what I had expected my ‘dream horse’ purchase to feel like!
However, the more I thought about it and the more determination I had, the more I was able to work through and rationalize what was happening. This mare had the same owner/rider/routine for the past 9 years, and all of a sudden - even despite her living in the same stall in the same barn - I had to reconcile a level of respect for the fact that this was a huge transition for HER, too! I worked on establishing a new routine for her…her new “normal”…even down to the fact that she gets exactly THREE peppermints after a good schooling session. I spend a lot of time with her as well just getting to know her - not always taking her out to ride, but sometimes to just take a walk around the farm, hand graze, brush her, etc., to help build trust with her. While we are still working through the “spook” which still comes around sometimes, she continues to get better and better, which I know is a function of our relationship becoming stronger and her gaining a better understanding of her new job with me. She is making me a better horsewoman and a better rider!
A few things that I feel are really helpful with this include keeping her on “Smart Calm Ultra” and “Mare Magic”, as well as using ear poms when schooling. Additionally, I take responsibility as a rider in always trying to engage her more during our rides to keep her mind busy…lots of transitions, changes of direction, posting, sitting, along with trot poles, pushing her forward past ‘spooky places’, etc. Keeping your OWN mind engaged is SO important - I’ve heard people say “if you’re thinking it they can feel it” - and it’s true! If you have even a subconscious thought in your mind about your horse spooking, HE WILL!
As hard and as frustrating as it feels right now, don’t give up just yet - a month is a very short period of time! Good luck to you and hang in there.
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thank you all. He is improving. Has finally started to settle again. I think I will get him back.
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Great to hear If it gives you any comfort, I’m a fellow QH owner. Had mine for 7 years and every winter he goes from the bombproof steady-eddie to a spooking, spinning, fresh little monster. It’s like a switch flips as soon as winter hits. I’ve had him long enough to know all of his antics and they don’t worry me anymore because he’s never gotten me off, but it is a little annoying. Your guy just may have a little of that in him too 
Fingers crossed that once spring gets here he’s back to the laid-back, quiet horse you bought! Good luck!
I had one like this too (now he’s on the East Coast - maybe you ended up with him, Pennywell Bay! :lol:). Like literally ANY alfalfa caused him to absolutely lose his mind. And “any” meant that if you fed him a single treat (most treats are made with alfalfa meal) it was enough to wind him up for the day. When he had zero alfalfa in his system he was his normal deadhead self. With even a treat, he was spooky/jumpy/paranoid and a little aggressive about being disciplined. Wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes.
Also learned that SmartCalm is made out of alfalfa meal (along with a lot of other calming-type supps).
If the attitude change came with changing barns, food sensitivity is definitely something I would consider. But glad to hear that he’s improved a bit!
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- Lyme
- Ulcers
- Alfalfa
- The Warwick Schiller videos are really effective
I have my big silly warmblood on Smartcalm Ultra during the winter–lots of magnesium, with tryptophan, etc., because I’m not 25 any more and would like to live to see the spring. Works like a charm.
Last year, he hurt himself and was on stall rest and handwalking, then endless walking under saddle, and was a bit of a handful, so I switched him to Smart Tranquility, which has valerian in it, thinking a little extra happy juice would keep us all safer.
It was pretty scary. It felt like he would flip a switch from being a bit overly dopey to seeing dead people on the cross-ties. We switched back to the regular stuff, and he was at least back to being predictably unpredictable. Once back on his turnout and exercise routine, he’s his normal goofy self again (with the extra magnesium.)
