spooky horse

[appendix100]

I have 2 issues with a new horse I bought. I was looking for a QH, that I would be able to eventually take into the hack classes at AQHA shows, & hopefully on the trail as well. I am an older rider & my previous horse was scary unpredictable. I finally gave up on him, but he completely blew my confidence. Also very well aware that I don’t have the seat I had at 20. Improving, but 30yrs later I just can’t ride like that anymore.

I finally found a horse I really liked. Tried him, was really comfortable to ride & is the most broke thing I have every owned. I felt safe on him.

Had him for about a month, then something sent him through the fence of his corral. No major injuries, but it is like I bought a different horse now.

1. He is pulling back when tied/cross tied. Not every time, but something will spook him & he will panic & set back.
2. He is spooking at I don’t know what in the arena. And when he spooks he spins & bolts. Has not dumped me yet, but this is not really what I signed up for.

any thoughts on what do do with him. Have actually known the horse & trainer for years - so I know he wasn’t drugged. It just seems that whatever spooked him that night in the corral flipped a switch in him that I don’t like.

He does better if I keep him busy going past the spooky place, but I am more in his face than I would like. Just afraid if I push him forward too much he will just bolt.
we have him on a “stupid supplement” that has valerian & tryptophan. helps marginally.

suggestions please. He may go back to where he came from, but if I can figure out how to get past this I really enjoy riding him.
thanks.

[kande04]

It’s winter here (New England), and my previously not-too-spooky horses are now officially spooky, reactive, and full of beans.

I’d just lay them off for the winter, but I’m late 60’s and need to ride to stay in shape both mentally and physically, so I’m still riding when I can, and doing ground work when I can’t come up with the energy nor desire to get on.

I’ve had my spookiest horses for years though, so know that if I can get through the winter with them they’ll be much better in the spring/summer/fall.

[AEQ817]

Yes, agreed with above. Cold weather can bring out the crazy in any horse. How much is he worked? And is it possible he needs more if turnout is limited either in the cold weather or at your barn versus his previous barn. Maybe talk to the old owners about how often he was worked and turned out if they’re honest people.

If you can’t get out to work him more often maybe there is a competent junior or amateur looking to get a few more rides at your barn? My horse is not spooky, but when he has built up energy, it seems he is just constantly looking for things to spook at so he can be frisky.

And lastly, I put my horse on a magnesium supplement in the winter when grass isn’t available. We did a hay analysis and found ours was lacking. It helped a lot.

[SolarFlare]

My horse is generally very sensible and not spooky. The two things that will make him spooky - ulcers (yeah,yeah, I know) and pain. Time after time this has proven true - he might not seem off or lame, but if something is bothering him, that’s his way of telling me (he doesn’t buck/spin - he’s TB so he tends to tuck and scoot).

Having recently moved him to a new place, you may want to treat for ulcers. Mine did just what yours is now - picked a “scary spot” and then just wouldn’t get over it, no matter what I tried, even though previously he never found that spot scary. I put him on the Abler “blue pop rocks” and he was back to normal within a couple days (still did the full month treatment).

[kande04]

I always give a new horse at least a year to settle in before I give up on him.

[findeight]

You might want to get a stronger rider on him…DO NOT teach him you will back down because you are afraid he will get worse if you push. Many thoughtful trainers call this letting them " change the subject", they quickly learn a spook distracts the rider from whatever task is at hand.

You need to not let him get started, whatever that takes. That could mean staying away from spooky spots, you cannot put him in a position to get started if you aren’t sure you can correct that spook. This might also have less to do with the midnight spook then learned behavior under previous riders.

On tne spooking in crossties, how are you reacting? Calm or getting scared or excited? Smart horse can get a new rider/ handler trained to their liking in a very short time. Behavior can get them out of work. The spin and bolt complicates things, wicked to deal with, it’s calculated, not a reaction to a scary thing and if you are already nervous about the spook and that’s exactly why they do it.

How long had trainer had had him under their direct care and supervision? What is the history on the horse? You really don’t know anything about how he was prepped to be quiet with you, could have been ridden hard in the days prior or otherwise toned down for you. No smart seller or agent is going to present a sale horse dead fresh. If trainer was selling for another or only recently acquired the horse, they may not know much about it.

There is such a thing as newhorsitis and it is a bad time of year for boogers and spooks in general…but I don’t like that 30 day time frame or the spin and bolt. IME that’s not new but a continuation of past behavior. He’s testing you and found what buttons to push. There is no shame in asking for help from a trainer here, it’s the right thing to do.

He might not be getting the same amount of work as he was when you bought him, sale horses are usually kept tuned up for buyers. He’s also probably too fresh to get serious about his work. Can you lunge him first?

Anyway, think you have a few things going on here ranging from new horse, cold weather, learned misbehavior plus you aren’t 25 years old any more. Get some help. Call the trainer you bought him from and ask them for some help understanding and solving this, for a fee, of course, Do you have an on site trainer where you keep him? I’d be using their services as a rider to get you through this.

Again, if you aren’t sure, don’t ask him to do it, each time he gets away with it, it gets more ingrained. And you will lose more confidence.

I found that QHs can be as clever as any devious Pony and some need to get the same kind of program. Over the years bought many like this one that just needed a firm, confident hand. Bought a couple of TB Hunters that loved to test and push but I was much older. Used a good Pro to adjust their attitude and expectations.

[appendix100]

He is kept at home, stall w/ a corral about the size of 2 round pens. He gets ridden 3-5 days a week depending on my work schedule, which is more than he was getting at home. He was owned by the trainers wife, who also as she is getting older had the good sense (unlike me) to decide she is no longer going to ride english. They had him for about 5 years. He wasn’t really “for sale” so he was rarely ridden. I got him because when I asked the trainer to help me find a horse, he suggested this one since he wasn’t getting used, they wanted him to go to a good home, & he thought he might fit my needs.

I have cut back his grain/alfalfa considerably, he is given free choice grass. The “stupid supplement” does have some Mg in it, but I haven’t had the hay analyzed, so maybe it isn’t adequate.

I have some lessons coming up w/ the trainer. Yes, I do longe first, & try do do so in the general area he spooks. He has not gotten away with a bolt yet, he mostly just spins around, but I am afraid if I just “try to keep him moving forward past it” we will end up with a bolt. So far when he spooks we end up going around in circles in the area for awhile, try to sidepass toward/away, basically try to make it more work to spook. Move on with what we were doing, then come back again. If I can get him past the area 2 or 3 times without any hystrionics on his part, then I will stop & stand there & usually get off there as well so he hopefully associates being quiet with getting out of work rather than the other way around.

If he pulls back in the cross ties I usually just wait him out. (I try not to roll my eyes). So far I have mostly not been in a position to encourage him to move forward rather than pull back when he does it.

I do have the chiro coming out. Can’t imagine he didn’t get something out of wack on the midnight run, just couldn’t get this part done earlier.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Just chiming in that one of mine can’t get alfalfa. ANY alfalfa. It makes him nuts. I have never had one like this but gosh darn alfalfa changes his personality.

[Redlei44]

You might try ear stuffing if his spook has any sort of noise sensitivity component to it - I’ve ridden more than one otherwise-quiet horse who considered any noise outside the arena to be good enough reason to spook and scoot when it gets cold outside.

Did you have PPE done when you bought him? It sounds like he’s working quite a bit more now than with his previous owners; there could be some physical issues manifesting with work. If the chiro doesn’t work you might pursue more with your vet.

[ElementFarm]

I second the idea to try ear poms – it made all the difference for one of my spooky mares.

Have you had lessons on him at your house from the trainer that sold him?

You’ve admitted that you have some confidence issues, and in many cases a timid rider can create a timid horse.
Some seemingly ‘babysitter’ types do just fine being the confident brave on in the horse-rider relationship. Others, who went along confidently for a confident rider, suddenly become reactive and spooky once ridden regularly/exclusively by a tense, clutching, stiff rider.
In my opinion, it’s difficult to tell which way the horse will go until it’s thrown into that environment for awhile.

It might be worth seeing how the horse does with some pro rides, and also in lessons with either your trainer or the one you bought him from.

And finally, as others have stated, winter makes all horses a little nuts. It may just be a combination of factors exacerbated by the cold weather.

Good luck.

[appendix100]

fingers crossed. Hadn’t thought about the poms, I have some, will give a try. Trainer won’t come to my house. I have lessons set up to go to him (he’s not far). I did PPE the horse & that was fine, plus said trainer let me take him home for a couple of days & try him there before I committed. Was fine then of course. The first couple of weeks at home were great too. Just want to get back to that…

[findeight]

Do I understand that you moved him from a trainers busy barn with a consistent routine and lots of horses to your own, much smaller place with ??? How many other horses?

Ahhhhhhhhh…based on my experience, that’s whats making the wheels come off…he lost his big herd and the quiet scares him. Really. Not kidding. Very typical reaction going from the busy barn to the more casual, quiet country life with few, or no, herdmates. Even if they are not turned out together, horsey neighbors in adjacent stalls are very much like his herd.

I think that’s a huge part of the equation here. Are there other horses? If so you will probably have a buddy sour phase coming up so be prepared. Better weather will help but it’s still problem solving that drives you nuts. But at least you can understand what’s driving his reactions. Most get over it. Some always do better in the bigger, busier barns. This guy may never have been anywhere but the bigger, busier barn and it’s quite an adjustment and can easily explain his over reactions.

[RugBug]

@findeight

Do I understand that you moved him from a trainers busy barn with a consistent routine and lots of horses to your own, much smaller place with ??? How many other horses?

Ahhhhhhhhh…based on my experience, that’s whats making the wheels come off…he lost his big herd and the quiet scares him. Really. Not kidding. Very typical reaction going from the busy barn to the more casual, quiet country life with few, or no, herdmates. Even if they are not turned out together, horsey neighbors in adjacent stalls are very much like his herd.

I think that’s a huge part of the equation here. Are there other horses? If so you will probably have a buddy sour phase coming up so be prepared. Better weather will help but it’s still problem solving that drives you nuts. But at least you can understand what’s driving his reactions. Most get over it. Some always do better in the bigger, busier barns. This guy may never have been anywhere but the bigger, busier barn and it’s quite an adjustment and can easily explain his over reactions.

Yes. This is pretty classic in a lot of ways. Horse hasn’t been worked much in recent past. New place, no buddies, new feed, new rider, new, new, new. Even the new rider is enough to make some of them test…and if it’s a rider that is getting tense because of worry about spooking? It’s all a pretty traditional recipe for pain.

I agree that it takes about a year to really know a horse. It also takes a lot of introspection to see all the variables and how they could be contributing.

[appendix100]

He was in a large pen w/ one other horse, surrounded by several others. He has his own pen at my place w/ a buddy right next to him & 2 retirees in the big pasture. That hang around his corral most of the time.

[findeight]

It’s still not the same as the busier barn. Some of them have more trouble going from quiet to busy. IME they all have trouble going from very light, intermittent riding to a regular work week wherever they are and most will pull out tests 1-19 to see what you got.

Wouldnt surprise me if he’s fine when you haul to trainers place.

Had another thought, do you have or can you borrow a Western saddle? Would you feel more confident in one? Even many H/J trainers use Western saddles for early under saddle work or when expecting bad or unpredictable behavior, especially if they aren’t kids anymore. I’d sure go to one if I was facing your predicament.

[appendix100]

Have been riding in a western. Would have been toast w/o that horn. Want to make sure we are steady together before we go back english. I am hoping he will settle back, it just seemed weird to me that he was fine the first couple of weeks, then went weird. I think I would be less concerned if he was the same in the barn & just testing me under saddle. I figure they give you a 30d honeymoon, then start trying stuff. Hopefully it will work. I appreciate everyone’s help. There are definately some things to try.

[RugBug]

@appendix100

He was in a large pen w/ one other horse, surrounded by several others. He has his own pen at my place w/ a buddy right next to him & 2 retirees in the big pasture. That hang around his corral most of the time.

We had one that came to our barn as a very quiet, level headed guy that just went bonkers. Owners did a lot of focused ground work with him and he eventually went back to his previous self. He needed time to settle…and to understand his place.

[beau159]

@appendix100

I am an older rider & my previous horse was scary unpredictable. I finally gave up on him, but he completely blew my confidence.

I will bet that your previous history is playing a role here. Horse was not spooky with previous owner, but now is with you? Sure, I agree that environmental changes can mentally influence a horse (some more than others) but certainly the common denominator here is YOU.

And I don’t mean that in a bad way!!! I’ve had my confidence shaken more than once. I totally get it. But I think part of getting improvement on the situation is making sure you are 100% honest with yourself … and then mentally whip yourself into shape!! Basically, learn to “fake it” for the sake of your horse. Even if you truly aren’t confident, do not let your body language show it. Be the leader.

@appendix100

any thoughts on what do do with him.

He does better if I keep him busy going past the spooky place, but I am more in his face than I would like. Just afraid if I push him forward too much he will just bolt.

I want you to change your method.

First of all, don’t be afraid to push him. Remember what I said about “faking it”? You might feel ready to crumble inside but do not give in.

Secondly, start ignoring the spooky place or spooky object. For the both of you, that’s the “mountain”. You shouldn’t be paying attention the mountain. Pay attention to the little hill in front of it. (metaophor )

Do not focus on “getting him past the spooky place”. Instead, focus on: I would like you to do a rollback here.
Now focus on: I would like you to do a stop and backup here.
Now focus on: I would like you to do a sidepass here.
Etc etc

You see how I made NO MENTION of the scary object? That’s because honestly, it doesn’t matter.

What does matter is getting your horse to pay attention to you. If he is truly paying attention to you, it is impossible for him to spook. (In order to spook, he must have focus on the scary thing.)

You don’t need to make a big deal of your requests. Actually better if you stay rather ho-hum about the whole thing. Keep a demeanor like you are out for a leisurely Sunday stroll. But keep him busy. Ask him to do one thing after another.
…it just so happens you are asking him to do it next to the so-called scary object.

Maybe the first day, you’re only able to do that 30 feet away from the scary object. Great! That’s okay! Call it a day, and go move onto something else.
Tomorrow, try to do these things 25 feet away from the scary object.

And you don’t even need to be mounted to do these things. Actually, it would be a lot better if you spent a week or two on ground work only. Make him move his body and improve his ground skills around the scary object. Ask him to back up. Move the hindquarters. Change directions, etc etc.

Once you start focusing on the horse, and getting the horse to focus on your, the spooking will magically go away. Of course, it’s not that a horse will never spook (after all, they are horses) but it will be few and far between.

[Wantanother]

I know you say you have known the horse and trainer for years and are “know wasn’t drugged”. But, attitude changed after 30 days, owner rode him infrequently (why?), sold him because she was getting older and didn’t want to ride English anymore. Just seems like and odd coincidence. Add in some cold weather and I might go hmmmmm. Hopefully it is all just caused by a change in scenery, rider, food and/or work. I might have a suspicious mind, but there are a lot of people out there ready to take advantage of a novice rider searching on their own for a horse.

[appendix100]

If it were anyone else, I would be suspicious as well. But, truly these people are solid. I have seen them take back horses that didn’t work out (& they have first right of refusal on this one). Owner rode him infrequently because besides her full time job, they have triplets that are in high school as well as showing horses, & she does the administrative stuff for her husband’s business. I’m surprised she’s not dead, not surprised she didn’t have time to ride. They are also like pretty much any other business, the client’s horses come first, then their kids, & if there is not enough time in the day for their personal horses, they just sit. He did get ridden some, but it was definately not really regularly. She is planning taking on one of her daughter’s western horses at the end of the year once they go off to college.
Plus there is no 30 day sedative.
I have watched the kids for years get a new horse, the trial is great, the first month they think they are headed to worlds, then the horse flips them the bird & says “make me”. If truly do believe you get a 30d (or one show, whichever comes first) honeymoon, then they start to push buttons. I hope that is it & we can get past it.
thankl you all