Spooky Mare can it be her hormones?

FWIW, I have a very sensitive warmblood mare who has been a challenge. Spooking/seeing dead people is the first sign something is making her ever so slightly uncomfortable. Not lame, not painful, nothing obviously detectable… just uncomfortable. It took me forever to figure out what she was trying to communicate, because she wasn’t doing it how horses usually do it. It starts with little spooks and will eventually escalate to full blown crazy.

I spent a good 10+ years thinking I owned a spooky horse. Now I know if she starts getting looky, she is (badly) trying to communicate something to me. When it starts it’s part mental gymnastics, part dance number as I try to find the balance between honoring her complaint (if I can) and kicking on, because you can’t just spook and get out of work.

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I ve been researching having her spayed. I’m hoping that some others on this forum have stories of spaying. I know what I’ve read the mares strike rear try to kick people “stallion like behavior”. She is not like that at all just spooky then does this wierd thing in the stall.( I wish I could upload the video) I’ve read about success stories and stories where it made no difference or made things worse. I wish I just had a definitive super clear answer that it was hormones or whatever it maybe. I agree hormones are the path we are still pursuing.
As far as the Jr hunter part I’m not worried about that at this point. It really was just for context and how it’s frustrating when you and your daughter have goals and intentions but they don’t always pan out the way you see them.
My goal now is to figure out what is wrong with her. I would never sell her in good consciousness knowing she is like this and wouldn’t want her to get into the wrong hands.
She is a really really nice mare and talented. We have schooled higher jumps at home and she does have scope for the bigger jumps if she would ever get her head straight.

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Yes we have had her going on 3 years in December spookiness comes in waves. Some days are better than others. But I’m a problem solver and don’t like being defeated so I really want to get to the root of her problem and help make her a happier horse.
Yes you are correct but I’m not worried about the junior hunter part at this point it was mainly written in there for context. But she is very talented when she has her head on right and has scope

I want to figure out what is wrong with her. Yes I believe I have good vets. My one vet is consulting with a repro vet this week.

I don’t like tooting my horn but I’m an accomplished trainer. She just has me a stumped. So seeking for advice or support

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I’d probably also consider a muscular myopathy (pssm or rer). My mare has really turned a corner with a diet change (no soy, no alfalfa, increased whey protein). Not perfect but I am now able to build her confidence because her body is much happier.

I do also keep my mare on about 16ml regumate. Her heats never really impacted her spookiness but she just drives the geldings crazy. Any less than 16ml does not work. You could consider short cycling and then fishing the regumate at a higher level than before if not already maxed out.

Good luck!

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GG a hour later sucralfate syringed and then a hour later miso with food. Sucralfate mid day and then again a hour before dinner and miso in dinner. We also did outlast with meals and free choice hay.

No signs of hind gut but another horse started having some off manure and gas so we did the 90 or 120 (my memory is failing) succeed daily paste, which resolved both concerns.

Thank you for adding paragraph breaks!

If you haven’t scoped and tested for ulcers, that is where I would start. Our vet is currently running a deal that comes with free gastrogard if you have your horse scoped, so four of my barnmates with spooky [edit: and/or tense/anxious] horses had them scoped and all four had ulcers. My mare also sees ghosts, so I am going to try and have her scoped as well before the deal expires.

Also, it sounds like your mare is worse while cycling, and she blew through Regumate so you took her off? That also happened with my mare. She was great while on the injectable compounded Regumate, but when I went back to oral, she broke through it several times, so I took her off. If I could afford it, I would put her back on the injectable. Is that an option for you?

Finally, my mare also sees ghosts, spooks at fences she has jumped while flatting - especially if they have moved (though doesn’t stop at them o/f), and is generally insecure. She really needs her rider (me) to be calm and in charge and - most importantly - committed to getting her past her meltdowns when she has them.

Meltdowns are pretty rare, it’s usually just being looky or a scoot or a tiny shy, which I don’t mind. (And thankfully, she doesn’t have a stop.) But if she has a meltdown, if I show any inkling of fear or hesitation, she will try and “save” us. I have had to learn how to work through that, and am finding that the more we work on it the less it’s a problem. For us, it’s while hacking out, so I do a lot of grazing and ground work in the scary areas, work with my trainer on how I should react, and hack out with buddies, not alone. Probably not something you would want in a junior hunter, though.

And, sorry, I didn’t intend to make you feel unwelcome, but I tried three times to read that block of text and could not get through.

Good luck!

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It’s really hard to diagnosis on the internet without knowing a bunch of details, so feel free to ignore. When you are dealing with a multi faceted issue, you have to peel back the layers.

What is she eating?
Have you xray’d her feet and or back.
Magnesium or vitamin e supplements
Turnout?

In my limited experience seeing dead people is usually related to pain. Not wanting to jump is usually foot pain, hock pain, back pain. Notice I said usually not always. Totally could be hormones but usually it’s not just hormones.

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I’m just an amateur nobody - definitely not a trainer nor do I pretend to be, but wanted to share my story of my mare. Not sport horse bred, backyard QH type.

Bought her as a nearly 3 year old. Had a cowgirl back her. During her three year old year she was quiet enough a young beginner child could w/t her with zero problems. She was on almost 24hr turnout in a herd.

Moved her to a barn with a true program as a not-quite 5 year old. A++ barn. She went feral within 60 days. Like I wouldn’t go into her stall without already having her halter on her incase she tried to send heels my way. Assumed she was sore. Spent sooo much money on vet work. Ended up hauling her to our university vet clinic to spend 7 hours… and long story short, not really find anything. She was on daily turnout, solo, but in a large field with lots of horse neighbours.

After a year of pulling my hair out, moved her again to a farm with 24hr turnout in a herd. Within a month she had gained a bunch of weight and was actually back to being pleasant around. She gets stalled occasionally, and is happy in the stall, as long as it isn’t every single night.

In hindsight, I wish I had listened to what she was trying to tell me sooner. I did all my due diligence chasing down a mystery soreness but ultimately she was telling me she wasn’t happy with her living situation. For the record, my other horse absolutely thrived on this change and looked the best he ever had, so I don’t believe it was a barn issue rather than a “lifestyle” issue.

Just wanted to share my story that ended up a happy ending, and ask if you’ve had any luck switching turnout/living arrangements with any improvement?

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What is a power pack of ulcergard? You need to treat for a minimum of 28 days

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Thanks for the tips haven’t thought about muscular but will definitely look further into this!

Thanks much appreciated. She is stalled out in day turnout late fall, winter, spring. About May we start on nights through October. That is interesting because where she was she wasn’t stalled for as long as she is stalled here. So that definitely could be a factor!

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I haven’t read through all the responses…but I’ve been in the same boat with a few horses and here are some things that we’ve diagnosed:

EDM - in that case horse was fine then got more spooky and behavioral issues/explosions…didn’t present neurologic until the end

Lyme and EPM - gelding was super spooky and acting like he wanted to pitch himself on the ground for a nice quiet walk hack with other horses (something he’s done a million times). He never seemed very neuro…mostly behavioral. 10 days on meds for both and he was a different horse.

Ulcers - I know you treated…but I was treating one and 4 weeks later scoped him and he still had grade 3 ulcers. He needed a different combo and timing of meds.

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I have posted on here about my mare’s ovariectomy. I could write a long story too. The short story: we finally did a progesterone trial with my mare, and it made it pretty clear that she had hormonal issues. It’s 10 days of daily IM shots. It is inexpensive, and shrinks the ovaries/follicles. It was like a switch flipped for my mare. If you have ruled everything else out, it may be worth a try.

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I also have a spooky mare, what did you find to be your mares issues?

I was going to suggest the possibility of PSSM and EDM as others have, but I think if it was my horse I would get its eyes checked by an ophthalmologist as well. Things like cysts in the eye can cause that behavior, and the reaction a horse displays can change with varying amounts of sunlight/shadows.

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Life. :rofl:

My mare is very, very sensitive to her own comfort. It sounds ridiculous typing it out. Things like fleece, girths that touch her elbows, bits without tongue relief. Also, if she doesn’t like how I’m riding.

Most horses have a bit more mental fortitude; she does not. And her first sign she is not feeling herself is little looky spooks, scary corner of the ring, etc.

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My mare tests all came back negative as well (she too had huge follicles that had a hard time “popping”, she too cycled thru regumate, she was extremely volatile under saddle and spooky) but when I finally sent her for ovariectomy they found SO much wrong inside.

I’m a pro as well and this mare tested everything I’ve got and confounded a lot of vets… years of work and hitting a wall while client horses progress, only thing I couldn’t train was my own… nor could I sell her as she would end up in a bad situation. DO NOT BREED YOUR MARE… who are these people who keep suggesting this (a SURGEON offered this to me… hope he could hear my eyes roll over the phone!!)

It’s been exactly two years. Two years of tough but steady improvement to finally get the horse I bought back.

I believe I have a fairly comprehensive list of what my mare has gone thru on a thread here … sorry my ability to search and link is limited and it’s not my thread just something I’ve contributed to and kept updated.

If I have the energy later (just had a hysterectomy myself) I will go update that thread and try to post the link here.
Best of luck.

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Added last update about my mare and I’m going to try to link the other thread

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I know you’re an experienced trainer, but… Is is possible she’s just not respecting you/your daughter? It seems you’ve tried lots of things, and it’s clear that she does react to her cycles, but at the end of the day, there’s a world in which she has to get out of her head and work with her rider.

Which is not to say it’s “my way or the highway” - the rider needs to establish the trust (and discipline) with the horse so that there’s a two-way conversation - the horse can express an opinion - but the rider prevails. Building this relationship can start with unmounted work. Certainly not a quick fix. And you do need to be aware of what she’s feeling in her body.

But it seems like you’ve done all the vetting. So maybe you all need to work with the horse as she is, and convince her to work with you even when she’s not feeling like it.

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I feel your pain. I have the most similar story, even down to reacting to the bit, my mare roots over and over and over, and no she didn’t do it when we bought her. If mine is off of her Regumate she is part dragon, acts like everything is on fire, but on the regumate we are able to treat her successfully for her ulcers, which came on when she came off of her regumate. Wondering how your horse is doing and if you have made any progress