Spooky Pony!

[poniesforammies]

Okay - a lot to write here but I think the details are important to the story. I recently purchased a medium pony mare - she’s 6, 13.2, and welsh/QH. I bought her very lightly started and with a buck, but that was the only behavioral issue disclosed to me. It only happened twice and the previous owner was confident that it was a lack of consistency in her riding and not a reflection of the pony - I agreed. Previous owner was incredibly transparent and I’m confident I was not lied to (not my first rodeo, I promise!!)

Fast forward to now: I’ve had her for about 5 weeks and doing a lot of groundwork before I very slowly restart her as a hunter. I want her to have the tools and the confidence for an uneventful reintroduction to ridden work. However, she is incredibly spooky and reactive, particularly to sound. Walking into and spending time in the barn makes her nervous, she paces in the stall, I can’t imagine cross-tying her because she’s unpredictable and will jump out of the wash stall as soon as she hears something, and walking to the round pen which is within 200 yards of her pasture is a no-go. Her spook is an explosion and is typically unwarranted given the stimuli (ie. a horse sneezing in the pasture down the hill from the wash stall where she’s standing).

Usually things behind her cause the most anguish - I was able to walk her towards the round pen the other day and while she was nervous, she obliged. However, after I praised her, turned around to walk back to her pasture, and what she was nervous about was behind her, she lost it - bucked, ran circles, stood up, etc. There wasn’t any sound or real event that prompted this - just turned to walk away since she was good and I felt no need to make her walk any closer.

Also important to note that she was turned out for a year prior to coming to this farm and lived in her old home for 4 years. I expected her to take awhile to settle and be a little uneasy in the barn, but this is beyond just adjustment anxiety.

Because she was previously sat on by children (I have a photo of a child standing on her back), and I’ve seen videos of her in training as a 2 y/o, I know the level-headed pony I believe her to be is in there somewhere, but I’m really not sure how to get her out of the insecure, irreverent pony that I’m dealing with now.

Just wondering if anyone has dealt with something similar or what suggestions are out there. Are there some great youtube videos about insecure horses? Regumate? Neuro?

Editing to add a little more info since I think initial post was misleading in some ways. Previous owners bought her as a 2 y/o after breeder had sent her to a trainer when she was 2. A lot of ground work and pulling a cart, since that was the breeders interest. She wasn’t started under saddle by the previous owners till age 4. Was lightly started from 4-5, and then turned out from 5-6.

In the previous home she was sent to a trainer a few times in short bursts (like, 2 weeks at a time) and they were able to ride and work with her without issue. She also shipped 8 hours and was ponied on the beach during her off year. She’s been sitting, yes, but she has traveled and settled in much shorter timeframes before.

Also don’t want to sound like I expect her to be settled by now. I do not - she spent an entire year out and now has spent a month at the new place. But, I do need her to be predictable enough that I feel like I can have someone come trim her, vaccinate her, etc. without putting them in danger.

She’s had tons of groundwork and desensitization in previous homes - you can put your hands all over her, lay on her, toss towels all over her, and she really can’t be bothered. She’s also naturally curious - loves to put her nose on things when we walk in the wash stall and barn, will knock over pitchforks with her nose and is completely unbothered by the sound when it’s her own doing.

She’s very friendly and has come to like me - comes to me in the field as soon as she sees me, nuzzles me whenever I’m working with her, relaxes the second I put a brush on her, etc. but as soon as she gets scared, she no longer respects me as the leader and I can’t get through to her.

I guess my question is less “why isn’t my horse settled!!!” and more “how can I help her not shut down as she settles?”

[luvmyhackney]

Have you tried checking for ulcers? If so… then look up Warwick Schillers videos.

[2DogsFarm]

@poniesforammies

Also important to note that she was turned out for a year prior to coming to this farm and lived in her old home for 4 years. I expected her to take awhile to settle and be a little uneasy in the barn, but this is beyond just adjustment anxiety.

5wks is an eyeblink to this horse.
Same place since she was 2, then Everything changes being brought to your barn.
Even if former barn had the exact same setup as yours, it’s not the place she basically grew up in.
I’d give her 5 Months before I decided she was Uber-Spooky.
You might also have her vision checked.

[EverElite]

Any chance she’s on MSM or a joint supplement that contains MSM?

[endlessclimb]

Even if she’s scared, you can certainly be enforcing “this is an ok way to express that, that is not” type corrections. Scared is ok. Dangerous scared is not.

[fivestrideline]

@poniesforammies

Because she was previously sat on by children (I have a photo of a child standing on her back), and I’ve seen videos of her in training as a 2 y/o, I know the level-headed pony I believe her to be is in there somewhere

So she’s now 6, dead green, has a buck, and hasn’t had much done with her since two years old? (Basing this on “lightly started” and “training as a 2yo”). Did the owners have other horses under saddle or were all of them turned out doing nothing?

You’d be surprised what babies will put up with. They’re young and unbalanced and have yet to form opinions, so I wouldn’t be making any judgements on her innate personality based on this info. Now she’s had ~4 years to get used to being a pasture pet without a job, and on top of that you’ve moved her and turned her entire world upside down.

I’d be treating her like a mustang pulled out of the BLM lots. Assume she knows NOTHING, and isn’t used to taking any cues or confidence from humans. If she was running in a herd, she’s used to following their lead and now is on her own in a strange environment (a death sentence for a prey animal). She knows more than a feral horse, but she doesn’t have that confidence in YOU yet. Warwick Schiller’s older stuff is where I’d personally start.

A vet check and diet/environment check wouldn’t hurt either.

[beowulf]

I was drawn to your thread because I once had a horse affectionately called the Spooky Pony. His connections called him the little spooky horse, and it stuck. He was not spooky at all once we sorted out his physical complaints.

Reading your OP, some things stuck out to me and I certainly understand the position you’re in because I lived it with my own Spooky. Five weeks is a very short time. I would chalk up many of the behaviors to her being unsettled in her new environment.

She sounds like a prime candidate for going back to full turnout with a friend. A stall walker is unhappy and unsettled. See if you can get her back out.

A lot of her behavior sounds like an insecure, green horse reacting to her environment. As far as her being sat on by children - I wouldn’t assume that she was extensively ridden by them. I could put my 2 y/o niece on my 5 y/o mare for a cute photo session - but that doesn’t mean the mare is a child’s pony.

When she has these episodes, what are you doing? How are you responding to the bolting, bucking, etc? Is she breaking loose?

I see many people get green, anxious horses and they treat them with kid gloves and walk on egg shells around them. While the intention is well meaning, I think it fosters more anxiety in the horse because they pick up on your nervousness that if you don’t handle them Just So, Things Will Go Bad. I’m not saying treat them with boxing gloves - but, for instance, you mention you can’t imagine cross tying her. Cross tying is a fundamental requirement to being a useable horse. Put her in the cross ties. You don’t need to hook her up, but she needs to go and stand where you tell her to. Don’t let her reactiveness make you coddle her.

Start small. This horse sounds like a prime candidate for ground training and clicker training. Teach her to stand wherever you ask her to, no matter what. A lot of the solid manners you see in well trained horses starts from hours of quiet, consistent handling over very basic, very small things.

Don’t overlook there may be a physical components at play influencing her anxiety as well. Horses in pain tend to react over-the-top to stimuli we would classify as non-triggering. It may be the move and sudden change has caused ulcers, especially if the horse is stalled and/or does not get turned out in a group.

[Lusoluv]

And if she is amped up already, she probably doesn’t need grain or concentrated feeds adding to her high energy/nervousness.

[FjordBCRF]

@beowulf

Reading your OP, some things stuck out to me and I certainly understand the position you’re in because I lived it with my own Spooky. Five weeks is a very short time. I would chalk up many of the behaviors to her being unsettled in her new environment.

This was my first thought as well, 5 weeks is nothing.

What was ponies life like before and after your purchase environmentally? You say she was turned out, was this 24/7 with buddies? What is her social and turnout life like now? I ask because after 5 barn moves in 3 years, I feel confident that my mild mannered fjord is clearly the happiest and MOST mild mannered when he has lots of pony buddies.

We’ve been at our current barn since October and during the nicer months, the horses are only brought in for breakfast and dinner. Right now with pastures being wet without a freeze, he and his buddies are getting out in the indoor all day which I wasn’t sure how it would go. He’s absolutely content.

Does your mare have friends who know the routine and life where you have her? How much turnout is she getting/day? Could absolutely be something physical, but the environment can certainly play into that and make something like ulcers more likely if something isnt quite right in that respect.

[MadTrotter]

This sounds pretty extreme for a supposedly formally quite pony. If this is really uncharacteristic behavior I’d rule pull blood for lyme/maybe trial treatment, do a quick course of ulcer meds and a bute trial. Check eyesight. Get neuro exam.

[red_mares]

Kicking chains will help with her stall pacing. Tying one in the stall can also help with pacing; sometimes they settle down when they have to stand. It’s almost like they need permission to chill out.

[RhythmNCruise]

Ulcers are my first thought. I never realized how crazy spooky they can make a horse. When I moved my gelding to our current barn last year, he lost his mind. He’d already been through a sort of rough patch a few years earlier when I sold my farm (where he’d lived since he was a yearling, he was 11 and had just lost his best buddy of 10 years when I sold It). He never truly settled into the place I boarded for two years. I think ulcers were already at play then. The second place I moved him, he was much happier. I was too. But he still had uncharacteristic times when he’d get amped up and spooky. He also got pissy about being brushed near his flanks. I believe his ulcers were still there, and due to an arthritis diagnosis, he was put on daily Equioxx. I know they say it’s easier on the gut, but for him, I believe it did bother his existing ulcers.

When I moved him to our current place, it was like the final straw. This is an old farm that is getting a lot of TLC from a new owner, and there was and from time-to-time still is a lot of heavy equipment working. My old farm was right beside some crop fields and the horses used to graze while combines chugged by and crop-dusters dove down near their pasture. He never cared. Mowers, tractors…never cared. But he LOST HIS FREAKING SH!T when he saw a skid steer his first night at our current barn. And I mean, I thought the horse was literally going to have a heart attack. I’ve seen him keyed up…he got extremely upset and anxious at the first boarding barn…to the point I was in tears because I felt so sorry for him. My sweet, quiet boy was so unhappy. But this was different. I feared he’d hurt himself or seriously…die of fright. It was that bad. And things didn’t improve much for several weeks. In fact, I came out to the barn one afternoon and as I drove in I noticed they had a huge excavator working. I also noticed that my boy was in the farthest corner of his pasture as he could get from where the work was being done. When I got out of the car, he screamed at me (he rarely whinnies). It was hot, hot, hot weather and he already is prone to anhidrosis, so I was really worried because he’d been running (lathered…so thankfully sweating), and I knew he wouldn’t have come up to where the barn and water (tanks outside, buckets in stalls) was. I walked out to get him and he came with me. I walked him into a stall and he nearly dove into the water bucket because he was so thirsty. He drank the entire bucket then turned and all but dragged me back out of the stall because he was so scared of the work he could still hear being done.

I knew it was time to do something. He was literally going to kill himself from his anxiety and fear. I started him on full tubes of Ulcergard the next day. I am not joking when I say it was like someone flipped a switch. I could just look at him and see a difference after the first tube. Knowing it was helping, I kept giving it. I bit the bullet and ordered 28 tubes. He got better and better. By the last tube, he was back to his old self. That same machinery that terrorized him, he now barely looks at. Of course, some of that is because he’s been there a year and has gotten used to it. But I swear he was going to make himself sick or dead over it all if I didn’t do something.

The only other thing I’ve done to kind of help him regain his brain a bit is supplement with Vitamin B1 (thiamine). It might be nothing, but I swear he keeps a cooler head and seems able to stop and think first instead of just going into flight mode immediately. He’ll look a things, snort a little, give it the ear and the side-step, etc. But before it was stop, snort, wheel, bolt (not far) over even the tiniest things (a bale of hay sitting at the end of the barn aisle…horrors!)

All of this to say…whereas before I never considered my horse an “ulcer” horse (fat, slick, good eater, lives out 24/7, forage diet, etc), I now immediately thing “ulcers” if I hear of a spooky horse. I learned.

Oh, and I did stop Equioxx. I do think that’s another thing that has helped him heal up and feel better. I can curry his flanks vigorously and he ignores me.

Best of luck to you. It’s so hard to see them so stressed out. I hope you find the thing(s) that make her better.

[TWH_Girl]

Agree ulcers/stomach issues can definitely be a culprit. Fortunately, you can easily rule several things in/out without having a vet out.
I’d first try some magnesium or a decent “calming” supplement with 5,000mg mag. I would continue with some groundwork and just basic stuff like the crossties and moving through other basic situations that get her amped.
If that failed, I would try Ulcerguard at the Gastroguard dose for a short while to see if that has an impact.
My next step would be a vet exam to see if whatever causes her to buck is causing her pain and therefore leading her to be spooky. If there are any other symptoms, maybe check Lyme, although I think most musculoskeletal issues are truly just that and Lyme is a less common scenario, but worth ruling out if there is no other apparent issue. I guess you could try a chiropractor first but I usually find more bang for my buck with a good vet exam.

[lenapesadie]

@luvmyhackney

Have you tried checking for ulcers? If so… then look up Warwick Schillers videos.

I second this.

I also second @beowulf’s suggestion to increase turnout

Long story ahead.

I moved my sweet, ammy friendly homebred from one boarding barn to another. And he lost his mind.

I had him examined by a good equine vet and we found diddly squat. I had already taken steps to ensure he had good gut support; 24/7 forage, low NSC feed, gastric buffering supplement and some alfalfa hay mixed in with his regular hay. I added a “calming” supplement. I tried a few and personally felt only Quiessience made a real positive impact but horse was still losing his cool over tiny, minor stimuli.

Spoiler alert. It wasn’t the stimuli. It was his general anxiety. I’d already been working on WS connection and relaxation work, but I had to double down on it. We made a lot of progress but honestly he wasn’t himself until I moved him again so he could have 24/7 turnout.

[Bluey]

Anxious horses come with all kinds of triggers.
Some do better in different conditions, some adding turnout of the right kind for them, some turnout makes them more insecure and even more spooky, we had one of those.

We have to try all kinds of different methods and situations, there is no pat answer for all horses, what works with one may not work with the next one.

[lenapesadie]

It’s true horses are individuals and certainly some do better in different programs than others.

My mother has an elderly Belgian draft and he’s very fond of going into the barn to escape bugs or heat or rain. Occasionally my folks will shut the gates to block that horse from going into the barn so they can do repairs or clean with the skid steer etc. It’s always a race against time bc once the Belgian decides he must come to the barn, he’s coming. He will squish or jump fences including those reinforced with hot wire. I tease they need elephant fences!

[2DogsFarm]

@lenapesadie

once the Belgian decides he must come to the barn, he’s coming.

The Draft Brain is different.
They know how big they are & thankfully are willing to submit to Puny Humans.
This pair went through the Topeka (IN) auction - Dad grounddriving:

But when they decide to make a move, it is going to happen.
Maybe in Slo-Mo, but inevitable
A friend had a pair of young Belgians.
I was visiting & we saw them following a barn cat in their pasture.
Cat trotting ahead, horses walking after cat.
“Look” said friend “they’re chasing the cat”

[skydy]

@red_mares

Kicking chains will help with her stall pacing. Tying one in the stall can also help with pacing; sometimes they settle down when they have to stand. It’s almost like they need permission to chill out.

I disagree with you about the kicking chains. When a horse is coming dramatically unglued for little reason, kicking chains may add to whatever stress the horse is experiencing and end with the horse panicking and injuring itself.

I agree with a vet check for ulcers and other pain issues.

[JBCool]

@2DogsFarm

That is a GOOD looking pair.

[IPEsq]

Definitely check for ulcers. I had a sound sensitive horse who was a total lunatic like you describe with very mild ulcers.

And ear plugs will be your friend for a while. Goal being to see if you can keep her somewhat near threshold as she learns to reset herself and let down…if they go too far over, teaching them to come back down is much harder / sometimes impossible in that session.