You can certainly get a good deal on the auction if you know what you’re doing. A few years ago there was an extremely lovely pony up for sale for a complete steal of a price. I looked up the pony’s record and called the trainer who had most recently had it in their care (not the current owner or trainer that were listed on the sales ad). That trainer (who at that point had nothing to gain or lose on the sale of the pony) told me it was the deal of the century. The pony had some quirks, so it would never be a little kid’s first division pony, but for an older and more experienced rider, it had the potential to be the winner. I did end up bidding on it but lost out in the last few minutes. I was curious who ended up with it, so looked it up on USEF again a few months after the auction. The new owner was a BNT who now leases it out for an annual fee of approximately twice what he paid for the pony. The pony really only needed good riding kid miles to be successful and the trainer had those kids in his barn whereas the prior owner didn’t. Not saying the true will be the same for any of the EM horses/ponies but you can certainly get diamonds in the rough on the auction.
Hypothetically speaking…
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You could also use this argument to support “saving” a puppy from a puppy mill. It still puts money in the seller’s pocket and encourages the seller to continue buying/selling/training etc.
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Even if sold through auction, if you suspect a seller does covert things to the horses (drugs, misrepresents, etc.) you’re no more insulated from that by the auction. Someone can still LTD or give an un-testable substance on an auction horse or flat out like about it’s temperament. They can inject every joint before dropping it off at auction. Who knows what someone did to a horse that might come back to haunt the buyer later.
It’s ok if 1 and 2 don’t bother you but they bother some of us. I’d rather pay a little more and have a horse I have confidence in from a seller I have confidence in. There are plenty of horses out there.
I’m sorry if there are nice horses in the hands of shady sellers and that it’s bad for the horse. Doesn’t mean I want to deal with a shady seller.
@vxf111 I get it’s not for everyone, I was responding more to your “why would anyone ever”…
Someone’s gonna have to or they are at high risk of ending up in a bad place. I’d rather it not be someone that has no idea what they are getting into, but instead someone that is aware & knowledgeable & fully prepared to deal with all potentialities. Like any number of the people reading this thread, so I don’t think we should make them feel like an idiot for even thinking about it.
I have zero knowledge of anything, but I’d venture most are just out of shape, out of tune, and basically out of work… for some time. Daughter’s been gone several years now and that is a lot of horses & ponies to keep going when you are a full-grown adult woman that doesn’t actually know how to ride…
This.
Addis auctions were a really big thing in the Arab circuit years ago. Some amazing horses at absolute steals, but also some real horror stories (even from very well-known barns). I’ve seen horses that were dangerous for all but the most experienced professionals sold as “need experienced rider” instead of honest disclosure. One in particular had a nasty habit of rearing into walls/trying to flip. It was well-known in certain circles, but he still went on to a buyer who didn’t have a clue until the horse tried to kill them. I think “will try to kill you” is an entirely different story than “needs experienced rider” but I could totally be wrong here… :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh: I’ve also seen the “it arrived and was completely crippled” case on more than one occasion. Addis is still a thing, but not on the scale it used to be. And people have learned to be very cautious with that “steal” that may be too good to be true.
It makes me incredibly wary of anything EM would have to offer, since it’s impossible to tell what was done to it. BUying at an auction is enough of a risk, why on earth would you up the risk by buying from someone who has that kind of history?
ETA: There were also rumors of certain barns playing games to up the prices on these horses at auction as well, so the “good deal” wasn’t always as good as it looked at first.
I think it is also important to note that she has also at one point was doing a lot of breeding. So besides those nice animals that had good show records at one point, there are a bunch of questionably bred, unbroken ponies that are in the mix of this herd she is trying to get rid of…
The unbroken ponies are probably the safest bet. Not a lot of time for bad training.
Shrug. Different strokes. Buyer beware.
I never called anyone an idiot. I said if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. That’s a different statement. The “too good” could be that these horses are not at all as they seem. Maybe they’re just out of shape… or maybe a lot more is going on. You wanna take her word? Buyer beware. There could be more going on here than just a bunch of undervalued horses.
OP asked what the deal was with these horses. I responded “if you have qualms, that probably is a sign.” I never called her or anyone else an idiot. I wasn’t even speaking to these particular horses but as a general matter. If you have concerns… keep looking. That’s true for these horses and other horses and deals in general. If you feel unsure… listen to your gut.
The deal is… there’s a lot of risk involved here. I don’t know why someone would be interested in starting with odds stacked against them… but I guess we’ll see how the bidding works out.
I never called anybody an idiot either. Personally don’t care to deal with horses out of needle happy barns, legal substances or not. And can only support one horse and board out so can’t afford that kind of gamble. If I had a place to park one that didn’t work, might take pity on the older horses. But people need to know who they are dealing with. It’s no way the horses fault but if it was over medicated years back when it was showing, it might not ever be suitable.
The unstarted ponies sound like the safest bet if somebody had room and time.
Yea without her daughter there I doubt those horses have been getting much work. A lady named Elizabeth Vogt seems to be running the barn/riding but not sure if she is in any way qualified to do that. Still way too many horses for one person to do. I’ve got to think there’s some out of the bunch that haven’t been damaged long term (mentally or physically) but it seems impossible to tell which.
Would be very interested to know the buyers of the horses sold at the past auctions. What condition the horses were in/if they were as described.
She’s undoubtedly a bad lady and this barn needs to shut down. I can’t imagine she’s dishing out much money for the horses care so honestly i hope someone buys them. If she was even a tiny bit decent she’d just be looking for good homes and would sell for near nothing. It’s probably only a reasonable risk for someone with extra stalls who lives close to Amber Hill and doesn’t need to ship. With a mare at least you could breed but she seems to have mostly geldings.
Also strange she has two stallions at stud for sale who don’t seem to be approved as breeding stallions under any registries 
Anyway good luck to anyone willing to take that risk I guess. I wouldn’t spend more than 10k on any of her horses regardless of how nice they seem.
. Elizabeth Vogt is Elizabeth Mandarino - believe Vogt is her maiden name.
And if you didn’t even know that, SwitchingDosciplines, you probably aren’t qualified to comment or speculate on exactly what care and training they may or may not be getting.
Not everyone keeps tabs on someone’s maiden names… It’s the same reason many women who build a professional name prior to marriage don’t change their last name. The bottom line is that Amber Hill has a reputation, and when you’ve built that kind of reputation, people will question EVERYTHING.
Oh come on, know too much about her and AH but didn’t know Vogt was her maiden name. Would have rung a bell with me as I did know a Western trainer named Vogt and his very flashy wife circa 1975ish out in LaLa Land. Just the AH is enough association to turn me off.
@findeight Lol people on here are so unnecessarily quick to jump on anything. I said I didn’t know anything about this person except a bit about her reputation from 3rd parties. I clearly stated I’ve just been looking at things online because of the auction. I work 80 hours a week and live in Canada so sorry I didn’t pay attention to her maiden name. It’s just been an interesting story to follow up on during breaks at work lolol.
@APirateLooksAtForty Oh jeez if you read my comment I said exactly that I DIDN’T know what kind of care/training the horses are getting. Just that that’s too many horses for one person to do. Don’t think I need to know the rider to make that assumption.
You can find more videos of the horses if you look them up on BigEq.com: https://bigeq.com/horse/listing/balou-du-joulet-oldenburg-hunter-30435/. I am in Canada and know nothing of this barn other than what can be read on Chronicle forums so will not comment or guess what their current condition is.
Looks like her stallion didn’t sell, he was bid up to $37,500. A couple of the others did sell for pretty cheap
Run , don’t walk, to the nearest exit . I do wish we could resurrect the hysterical XTRANORMAL videos someone made of her. They were priceless. I commented far too often and irresponsibly on those threads. Mandarino was the equivalent of those carnival games where the target moves erratically and with zero predictability. Everyone gets a prize STEP UP ONE AND ALL…see the show.
Should I be glad I missed this? :lol:
In a word, yes.
Don’t believe everything you read. EM is amazing with horses and her daughter did unbelievably well at UGA and was up for NCAA Woman of the Year. If all of what you say is true, EM would be in jail and her daughter wouldn’t be able to get on anything put in front of her and ride so well. EM trained her daughter and her horses and they were practically unbeatable because they were up before the crack of dawn prepping the horses and made an unbelievable team. I watched them from afar and was very impressed. Anyone big in the horse industry knows the truth about them and they worked very hard and treated their animals like kings and queens and they were turned out perfectly for competition. Don’t ever think EM’s animals don’t look and go their best bc they do with or without her daughter. I have seen some of them out on the circuit without her or her daughter and they are still getting tri colors. She runs a tight barn as I stabled next to her at a few comps and they were in the barn before me, they were in the barn late at night putting them up and laughing and having fun. Not like half of you miserable people out there. If she would train outside people or accept horses for training (and yes I have called her and asked) I would go to her in a heartbeat. Since her daughter went to college I haven’t seen EM at a USEF competition. From what I know about her, she doesn’t care about anything anyone says.
