I keep reading (sales add for western trained horses) that a horse has a good ‘spur stop’. What do they mean by that term? When I touch my horse with a spur it is to ask for more forward movement.
You can teach your horse to respond to a spur in any one way you choose.
Spurs are used to refine leg aids, to teach a horse to move away from it, forward like you refer there, to move on, or like when side passing, or to pick up it’s hind end and using it’s back more by rounding it.
Some teach a horse to do that last in a way that means bring yourself to a collected stop if the spur keeps continuous contact.
That is used mostly by western show trainers in western pleasure and other such classes like trail, where the horse performs with drapey reins you barely move, so you need to use your seat and legs for everything.
At least that is what I have heard trainers say and seen riders do, but don’t know myself how that works.
I own a western pleasure gelding who was trained with a spur stop.
If you touch both spurs to his sides (at the same time) just behind the girth he will come to a very abrupt halt with his head down.
Not that you asked, but I will tell you it has been one of the biggest challenges for me in transitioning him to dressage. Most trainers teach a spur stop by applying the aid, and then adding an abrupt upward and backward jerk on the reins, and then backing the horse for an extended length. As a result, my horse initially would curl behind the bit, and would constantly be thinking “backwards” whenever I applied both spurs or both reins.
It is not my preference, but I have seen where it has been helpful for some amateurs and kids. And as Bluey mentioned above, WP and trail horses are ridden in a way that you basically have to micro-manage each step, so there are lots of buttons on those horses since rein contact is minimal, and thus the spur stop becomes very important in being able to halt them without a lot of rider movement.
Thank you both for the explanation. I am a bronze medal Dressage rider so you can see why my confusion on this term. When I touch my spur (or leg) to a horse it is to move forward and away from the touch. All Dressage movement is done in forward motion. Even the halt and rein back.
I often have people ask me to eval some add they have seen so this will help me answer those people.
On a good note, I can say that my WP gelding, and the other WP horses I have ridden are all well introduced to lateral work and do move away from pressure well. But forward and contact on the reins are very foreign concepts.
I like to think my gelding is coming along nicely in his WP to dressage transition, but I would not recommend a WP horse if you have students or clients looking for a quiet, low level dressage horse. They do tend to be quiet and easy to ride once you figure out the aids/buttons, but the re-education is extensive. If you can get them very young, maybe 2-4 years of age, you might have an easier time retraining.
I think a lot of people (myself included!) are tempted to purchase WP horses because they are safe/quiet/easy. My gelding was a God-send after ACL/meniscus surgery. A horse whose favorite gait is halt is a wonderful safety feature for a rider who is fragile due to fear issues or recovering from injury, etc. But he has been so difficult to transition that I actually un-retired my 24 year old nut-job of a thoroughbred because I often feel like dressage on my WP gelding is like trying to ride a bike with two flat tires uphill through sand.
I show AQHA, have Congress and World Show top tens. My gelding has points in halter, trail, showmanship, Hunter under saddle, horsemanship, western riding, ranch horse pleasure, and pleasure driving. He has a spur stop. When I purchased him he was four and had about thirty rides, spread over two years. He was never jerked into a spur stop. He spur stops when you squeeze with both legs, use your seat and I usually ad a soft whoa. The squeeze collects him into the stop. For forward motion I tap with the Spurs. Generally he will jog off with a soft cluck. To move into a posting trot, I do use my legs. Since we do the driving he is resonsive to the verbal cues, a cluck for a park gait and a shush for the extended road gait. He rides trail courses on a draped rein. He is the first horse I’ve shown with a spur stop. I have never had him lock up when I am using my spurs for forward motion. I think of it this way, the spur stop is an aid. I don’t show the pleasure, I do events that require more forward, like the western riding and ranch riding.
[QUOTE=meaty ogre;8436738]
On a good note, I can say that my WP gelding, and the other WP horses I have ridden are all well introduced to lateral work and do move away from pressure well. But forward and contact on the reins are very foreign concepts.
I like to think my gelding is coming along nicely in his WP to dressage transition, but I would not recommend a WP horse if you have students or clients looking for a quiet, low level dressage horse. They do tend to be quiet and easy to ride once you figure out the aids/buttons, but the re-education is extensive. If you can get them very young, maybe 2-4 years of age, you might have an easier time retraining.
I think a lot of people (myself included!) are tempted to purchase WP horses because they are safe/quiet/easy. My gelding was a God-send after ACL/meniscus surgery. A horse whose favorite gait is halt is a wonderful safety feature for a rider who is fragile due to fear issues or recovering from injury, etc. But he has been so difficult to transition that I actually un-retired my 24 year old nut-job of a thoroughbred because I often feel like dressage on my WP gelding is like trying to ride a bike with two flat tires uphill through sand.[/QUOTE]
:lol::D:lol: OMG! This is too funny. I agree with you tho! I am going to share your story with friends!
[QUOTE=Bluey;8436275]
You can teach your horse to respond to a spur in any one way you choose.
Spurs are used to refine leg aids, to teach a horse to move away from it, forward like you refer there, to move on, or like when side passing, or to pick up it’s hind end and using it’s back more by rounding it.
Some teach a horse to do that last in a way that means bring yourself to a collected stop if the spur keeps continuous contact.
That is used mostly by western show trainers in western pleasure and other such classes like trail, where the horse performs with drapey reins you barely move, so you need to use your seat and legs for everything.
At least that is what I have heard trainers say and seen riders do, but don’t know myself how that works.[/QUOTE]
It isn’t all that complicated. But first I’m assuming that it is not a jab with the spur move.
As you said, those riders, similar to what good dressage riders should be doing, rely on their seat and legs for transitions, etc. So their body stops moving forward with the horse. But to insure that hind end comes under to keep the horse collected the spur or leg comes into play and sends the hind end forward and under.
As another dressage rider, I appreciate the explanations as well.
I had an AQHA all around pleasure mare that I rode for a while. We sold her a few months back. She was shown at the congress and placed top 10 in the amateur versatility a few years ago.
She was trained with a spur stop as well as taught that rolling the spurs slightly up her side meant to slow down the current gait and lower her head. She was very responsive to being driven with your seat and legs. And, if you jabbed her with spurs, she wasnt a very happy girl.
I’m surprised that no one went a little off topic mentioned the reiners. They are trained to stop when the rider extends their legs up, out and forward as you would to sit the sliding stop.
[QUOTE=RanchRider;8458486]
I had an AQHA all around pleasure mare that I rode for a while. We sold her a few months back. She was shown at the congress and placed top 10 in the amateur versatility a few years ago.
She was trained with a spur stop as well as taught that rolling the spurs slightly up her side meant to slow down the current gait and lower her head. She was very responsive to being driven with your seat and legs. And, if you jabbed her with spurs, she wasnt a very happy girl.
I’m surprised that no one went a little off topic mentioned the reiners. They are trained to stop when the rider extends their legs up, out and forward as you would to sit the sliding stop.[/QUOTE]
Not always.
Many finished reiners today are taught to go as long as you keep driving and when you slow down or stop your driving, legs not necessarily in front, they slow down or stop.
If you put your legs in front, they generally will stop and back, unless you keep your leg on so they only stop.
You also with some use your voice to speed one up, especially when spinning and for transitions to lope.
Many reiners will also transition to lope if you cluck to them, no other aid necessary.
Ideally, thru it all, with finished reiners, you hold the reins very still, with minimal if any contact, the more drapey the reins the better and barely move your hand in a little imaginary 4" box in front of you to indicate to the horse “pay attention, your next request is coming”.
The rein itself doesn’t tell a horse that much, but your body language as you move that hand, you will tighten your body and move your head and shoulders a hair, maybe stiffen that arm, your legs move and your weight change the balance, that all indicates to to the well trained horse what you want next.
It is important with reiners to keep remembering you are continuously communicating with your horse, that is finely tuned to listen to every little aid of your whole body.
A good honest reiner will be listening and waiting for you, not anticipating and if that kind of horse messes up, it is probably you that was not clear enough in what you were asking.
A good trainer and a schoolmaster type reiner can show a student how that all works, better than keep trying all that on our own and possibly confusing the horses.
[QUOTE=Bluey;8458860]
Many reiners will also transition to lope if you cluck to them, no other aid necessary.[/QUOTE]
Every Western-trained horse I have ever ridden has been “programmed” to jog/trot at a cluck and lope/canter at a kiss. Clucking to lope will result in a very frustrated horse and rider.
[QUOTE=Montanas_Girl;8463595]
Every Western-trained horse I have ever ridden has been “programmed” to jog/trot at a cluck and lope/canter at a kiss. Clucking to lope will result in a very frustrated horse and rider.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I didn’t know the word for it, just how to do it.
Thanks for explaining what is called.
[QUOTE=Bluey;8463611]
Ok, I didn’t know the word for it, just how to do it.
Thanks for explaining what is called.[/QUOTE]
I figured you probably “knew but didn’t know”, but you’d be amazed how many people REALLY don’t know the difference. I have several students every semester who “can’t” kiss and therefore have a terrible time trying to learn to longe horses at a canter.
I think the biggest problem people have with transitioning good western horses to English is that they don’t understand how the horse was trained so they just think he is doing it wrong.
[QUOTE=Montanas_Girl;8463595]
Every Western-trained horse I have ever ridden has been “programmed” to jog/trot at a cluck and lope/canter at a kiss. Clucking to lope will result in a very frustrated horse and rider.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what I do … as learned from my reining trainer!
I do other events besides reining, so I “cluck” to trot, and “kiss” to either go into a lope or do a flying lead change. Those are the only 2 instances where I will make that kiss sound, so it’s very specific for my horse and he knows it well. Very important in reining, and other things, to make that perfect transition from a walk to a lope or a standstill to a lope.
