Square Halts...how do you train them?

[ladyfarrier]

I usually read here, not post, but I’m in need of some help/opinions.

I have a young warmblood mare that I am driving. While I have quite a few years of ridden dressage experience, I am new to driving. Most of my driving “knowledge” comes from books and videotapes (yes, I can see many of you cringing).

So far, we’ve been sort of “feeling our way”. I take what I know of my ridden dressage training and try to apply it to the driving, substituting gentle whip aids in place of leg, etc. Half halts are pretty much going through. Bending is getting pretty consistent. Contact is soft and even and forwardness isn’t a real problem.

But getting a square halt…argh. My brain says “drive her into the halt” (drive as in “forward”, not well, you know, Drive). But I consistently get one hind leg or the other left back.

In the early days, I’ve “accepted” the unsquare halt, and now it’s coming back to haunt me when I’m saying “no, that’s not good enough”.

When asking for the halt while not hitched, i.e, ground driving, I can more consistently get a square halt. On the lunge line, halts are square. Usually I just wait these things out and keep on working at it. But I can’t help but wonder if I’m missing something very fundamental.

I’m using a marathon carriage with brakes, which I do not use in halting.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated… How do you work on this? What would you suggest?
Jan in the cornfields of Illinois

[Cielo_Azure]

This is what I do and other people might have better ideas than this but this has worked for me, so I will throw it out there as no one has answered you. I show in halter with my babies, so most of my horses get the idea of squaring up long before they get near a harness. But even those horses that I have had in for training, I use and teach the commands step-up and step-back and they soon learn that I want them square. I use the same commands to get them to square in cart as on the ground.

I don’t put a command on “square up” but I think that works well too and I probably should. I have had horses that park to the verbal command of “park.”

So, if you are having issues in the cart, sometimes training on the ground can work. If you ride also, training from the saddle is a great tool for driven dressage. I use this all the time! For instance, a free walk under saddle translates so well to a free walk in cart.

My husband rides dressage more than drives and he has a hard time remembering to use verbal commands when driving. Likewise, I tend to drive more than ride and I have to remember to shut my mouth when riding dressage, as I tend to put a verbal command to everything…

[War_Admiral]

Ladyfarrier - the dressage principle still applies; it’s “drive forward into the halt.” It took me aaaaages to get a correct halt out of my old horse; he’d do the same as yours and hang a back leg.

Finally I figured out he simply was not trotting forward into the halt with sufficient impulsion. Drive like you are NOT going to halt at X; make sure his hindquarters are just as engaged as if you were going to trot the full length of the ring. Practicing at home, if you have to use your whip the first few tries, use it.

This’ll sound really stupid, probably won’t make any sense to anyone but me - but what helps me personally envision the kind of halt I want is to imagine the curling over of a big ocean wave. You drive “over the top” of the halt and then “curl” back in… but the “base” of the wave, i.e. back end of horse, is still going forward. Like I say - will probably make no sense to anyone else! :lol: But I find if I envision that, then I get a square halt.

Hope that helps…:lol:

[ladyfarrier]

Thank you both for your input and ideas!

Ciela Azure, very good points. I think going back to some ground work is in order.

War Admiral, I LOVED your visual <G>. And in hindsight, I think you’re right…I’ve been sort of “crawling” down into the halt, rather than having enough forward. Because she’s green, all the halts have been through the walk. I think it’s time to see what happens when we have more impulsion.

Thanks again ladies…I appreciate your help.
Jan, and Lily the filly, in Illinois

[jcotton]

Driven dressage is the same as ridden dressage. Big forward walk steps into big forward trot steps and vice versa. If asking for small strides, chippy strides in either gait that’s what you will get.

You want think of “wowing” the judge with a forward trot to a deadly square and accurately placed halt. then proceed out with a forward powerful going somewhere trot.

It has to be practiced everytime you are in the seat or saddle.
Square halts are repetiously practiced.

[Thomas_1]

You also need to ensure that you have tension off the traces as the horse comes to a stop.

If you don’t do that then the horse won’t stand square and will most likely want to step back. So if you’ve brakes on the carriage use them to help you and the horse.

[Yip]

Thanks for asking this, as I may need to work on it too.

I think my basic problem is that I begin thinking whoa before I want/say it. This leads to a horse who anticipaties the command coming and to shorter steps.

Speaking of verbal cues. I hadn’t ridden Cookie but a few times all last fall, winter/spring while we were concentrating on driving. Then didn’t drive all summer, but took her for a short ride a couple weeks ago. I was amazed at how she now responds instantly to verbal cues. She did before too, but WOW. I thought, a handicapped person who had no leg strength (my elder dd was diagnosed MS recently, which is why the thought came to me) could ride her and really communicate well verbally. This could be an invaluable by-product of driving.

Yip

[ladyfarrier]

I’m loving this feedback/advice <G>. Thank you all.

Thomas, I find your comments in particular to be thought provoking:
"You also need to ensure that you have tension off the traces as the horse comes to a stop. ’

This has me puzzled, Thomas…if the horse is pulling the carriage, there is tension on the traces. When you ask for the halt, the breeching relieves the tension on the traces…right? The only way I am thinking that wouldn’t be the case is if you are stopping on an uphill incline?

You also commented: “If you don’t do that then the horse won’t stand square and will most likely want to step back. So if you’ve brakes on the carriage use them to help you and the horse.”

So I think you’re saying the horse must not have trace tension as they stop, and that by applying the brakes after the halt is achieved (or almost at the same time) it will maintain the “no tension” situation? Since I’m only practicing halts on level ground right now, I guess I"m missing something. Stepping hasn’t been a problem at all, but I’d like to keep it that way.

Increasing the impulsion by asking for the halts from the trot is showing good improvement. She was ready and, as pointed out, if you ask for “junk”, you get “junk” <g>.

Thanks to everyone for the input…

[goodhors]

If you use the brakes, horse is not required to work the pressure of traces or breeching with added weight of vehicle. He only has to stop himself, so is more likely to be stopping correctly, square, if driven correctly into the halt.

You also might want some video, to SEE if you are doing body language that gives horse a “pre-stop” signal so he drags into X.

I have a lot of fun watching the games kids ride at 4-H. About 90% of kids quit riding before they get to the finish timers. Horse VISIBLY slows and adds time to his run, because the KID TOLD HORSE to be ready to stop. Each of the kids would SWEAR they rode the whole time, but video would show them wrong. They sit up in the saddle, start regaining contact with reins. Horse feels that, knows the next thing is the BIG WHOA before they hit the fence (even if not really close, kids do haul them in). Horse helps by slowing, with VISIBLE hesitation in the air!

Had my kid watch the runs, tell what she saw. Observation session did improve her runs, horse was only doing what he was told, when he slowed down!!

If you consistantly do things incorrectly, tell horse wrongly with signals, you will continue to get horse answers you don’t want.

[Thomas_1]

There isn’t (shouldn’t) be permanent tension in the traces even when you don’t have brakes.

However when you have brakes then you use them in the way that Goodhors suggested and to keep the traces from having tension as you ask the horse to stop.