Squish/Simke: How many mg/kg Imodium for dog?

[Simkie]

Hmmm. Interesting about the normal bloodwork.

I ask because I have a cat with intermittent diarrhea and vomiting with a high eosinophil count but otherwise normal bloodwork and urine. Our list of potentials is IBD, parasites, lymphoma and allergies…pretty much everything on your list.

IANAV, but I wonder if a normal eosinophil count makes makes those things less likely for your guy?

Whenever I’m faced with stubborn diarrhea in my pets I always feel like if I can just settle the gut down for a day or two, it can begin to heal and the diarrhea can go away. I know it’s not always that simple, but it sure feels like the right answer, eh?

[BuddyRoo]

I wish we could settle it down. A day or two would be heaven.

I’m embarrassed to say this, but I just gagged and then yakked trying to clean up another mess. And then broke into frustrated tears. After 4 mos of this almost daily, I’m really really having a hard time. Dog seems fine. Me? Not so much. I’m supposed to be getting ready for a night out and I’ve been on my hands and knees cleaning up poop. I’m trying to have the house cleaned up before DH gets home. I haven’t even had time to shower as I’ve been taking the dogs out, researching, getting food for the next five days that I won’t have a car, and cleaning more poo.

I’m just beyond tired. Tired.

[Simkie]

Oh, BuddyRoo. Hugs. Big hugs.

[SquishTheBunny]

Hang in there BuddyRoo. Your dog is happy. I know you are exhausted. Give it a little more time, an ACTH stim to rule out Addisons and then if your vet still thinks giving pred a try - go for it. You may have some great sleeps ahead of you yet

[Marshfield]

@BuddyRoo;6730953

I couldn’t do the ACTH this week, so will have to put off til next week and cross fingers that I can get in. I’ve called the clinic a couple of times in the last few days, no call back. So I don’t have an appt yet.

The injection used to do the ACTH stim test is a special order item. They may be waiting to have it in hand before scheduling you in.

[Marshfield]

What happens if you fast and then just feed either pasta, rice, or sweet potato?

I know we say for skin problems to give the z/d a full six weeks, but I would have expected you to see some improvement by now if this issue was food allergy related.

[animaldoc]

Oh how frustrating!! So sorry that this isn’t going well…

Looks like you’ve done most diagnostics on the list for chronic diarrhea…

Where in VA are you? To me it sounds like you’re ready for a fresh set of eyes - maybe an internal medicine specialist? If you go to http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=3
you can search for a board-certified internal medicine specialist in your area.

[csaper58]

Hi Buddy, Maybe try ‘Florastor’ Saccharomyces boulardii (a type of yeast) that has been shown to help colitis and irritable bowel disease? Most drug stores carry it. Endosorb will help alot, also Metamucil cookies/crackers. My dog loves cinnamon flavor.

[horsenut_8700]

Have you tried actual Kaolin-pectin suspension? You can get a gallon at most feed stores or TSC for cheap. Dose is 5ml/10#. Might be worth a shot!

[wendy]

I agree, I think you need another vet, a specialist. Four months of liquid poo is insane.
The only time I’ve ever had anything similiar it turned out that it was probably giardia- it never showed up in the tests, it didn’t respond at all to the metronidazole, and finally, finally, after I had to throw out several expensive rugs, the vet suggested panacur. Even after the panacur the stools were loose until the dog had been fed probiotics and a diet of boiled rice/meat/pumpkin for a couple of weeks- the repeated metronidazole treatments had just decimated his gut. Which is why I kind of wonder what would happen if you took your dog off the antibiotics, and just let his gut rest and recover?

[Simkie]

Wendy, BuddyRoo’s dog IS off all antibiotics.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?381084-Alright-let-s-combine-all-the-quot-stop-loose-poops-quot-stuff-here&p=6729814#post6729814

[KTRider]

I don’t know if it will help but I’ll share my experience - when I first got my Chessie, I went through four months of explosive diarrhea. I’d come home and her crate and the walls around it were destroyed. Multiple fecals, multiple rounds of fasting and metronidazole. It would clear up on the metro but start as soon as she was off it.

Ultimately, we did the blood testing for food allergies. I know it’s not considered a great way to test for food allergies, but it worked. She’s allergic to so much, or at least sensitive to them. So, we started her on a chewable probiotic. I think it is pretty much the same as pro-pectalin. We fasted for 24 hours, then started her on rice and pumpkin for a couple days, then went to a limited ingredient diet. At the time I used Natural Balance, but now I’m on Acana lamb or duck. I just stick to a single source protein, no wheat, no corn.

I’ve had two dogs with chicken sensitivity, so I never used Z/D, I try the “rarer” proteins (I know lamb is pretty common but it works for her.)

Her issues stopped in the first 36 hours on that probiotic, it was amazing. She still has a sensitive gut. I let her have a pig snout this week and paid for it on my pretty wooden floors. When she flares, I fast for at least 18 hours, maybe give her a couple spoons of pumpkin, then start her back on probiotics and small portions until things seem better.

I know you’ve done everything under the sun, but since I had the exact same problem, maybe there’s a nugget there that might help. Good luck. I was a little stressed this week, trying to clean up that mess without getting anything on my brand new patent pumps that were my gift to myself for Christmas.

[cowboymom]

Buddy do you not have any place you can contain him so that you aren’t having to do all this cleanup? I’m sure he’s happier in the house with his normal routine but it’s not good for anyone else to be cleaning up this mess all day every day, especially if it turns out to be giardia or something similar.

I just keep flashing back to vet kennel I ever cleaned where it was covered with liquid poo and thank heavens for tile floors, floor drains and a hot water hose! I’ve cleaned up my share of liquid poo in the house and it’s miserable. A corner of the garage maybe? Even the back of a truck under a topper would be easier to clean… a horse trailer? I don’t intend to sound cold-hearted for the dog but if he’s plumb happy and you’re at the end of your rope covered in poo… maybe there’s an option while you figure out the cure?

side note, does he have slime in the poo or is it just regular poo in liquid form?

For the price and results you’ve had so far I’d get off the z/d and do plain meat, raw or cooked and maybe some potato.

Maybe he is stressed at the daily poo explosion routine (you can’t be the picture of happiness and approval when you go through it) and it’s enough to cause him to let loose every day. Maybe a change in the routine and a cleaner diet would help at least… ?

but boy it seems to me you need a better way to get through the daily mess, you can’t keep doing that.

[mswillie]

Don’t know if this might help you or not but it’s worth a try:

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=b2646eb6-3d51-403b-a183-c7a066fdc2d5&gas=pro-pectalin

It comes in tablets or paste. I give it to one of my cats with chronic diarrhea. It’s not a cure all but it does help.

When I was searching I saw this as well. It’s what kaopectate used to be. Have no idea if it would work for you but it’s inexpensive and is good for horses and cattle as well.

http://www.enasco.com/product/C18585N

[BuddyRoo]

NO MESS THIS MORNING! THANK THE GI GODS.

I got up with hubby at 3am as he was getting ready to hit the road for Xmas in Michigan and Giais (the dog) didn’t even get up. No messes. I proceeded to go back to sleep until 9AM (unheard of!) and still, no messes. He did still have liquid stool when I took him out, but no messes to clean up.

I will try to respond to the questions…if I miss someone, please know that I really appreciate your input, I just miss stuff sometimes.

Marshfield: Thanks. They told me it was something they had on hand, but I still didn’t get a call back. So I will call again on Monday if they’re open and try to schedule for Wed.

Animaldoc: I’m in West Springfield/Burke area. I saw that there’s an internist in Fairfax. I’ve been going back and forth with the team at Michigan State where he was first being treated/had surgery, complete w/ an internist, but it might be good to have a new set of eyes.

CSaper: I will look into that. Thank you. The endosorb and more of the probiotic should arrive Monday as well.

horsenut: No, have not. Will look into it.

wendy: The only abx he was on were the metronidazole and Tylan and he’s been off of those for about 10 days now, I believe. We did the panacur power pack about 8 weeks ago. We’ve looked for giardia two different ways now. Also tested my other dog. Never saw anything, but treated anyway after the symptoms continued past his second surgery. From about mid October through Thanksgiving, he was on probiotics, boiled hamburger/rice and pumpkin, then we tried working in the California Naturals fish based food. He was off of meds at that time. He’s been on Z/D now for 3 weeks as of this coming Tuesday and when we started that, we also started the 7 day course of Tylan and Metronidazole again.

So right at the moment, he’s on Z/D, probiotics, and that’s it for the last 10 days.

KTRider: Thank you. The Z/D is actually hydrolyzed such that the proteins are broken down so much that the original protein source is irrelevant. They are not recognized as animal proteins after all the processing which is why it’s a good food to try if you want to eliminate all recognizable proteins just to see if that’s it before you start trying novel protein sources. That said, holy cow…it costs a lot to process to that point! Yikes! But I hear what you’re saying. I wish that the metronidazole or probios had shown us such amazing results like you had! I’m so glad to hear that your pup is sorted out and doing well! I’m still not really convinced this is a food allergy to be honest. But this is a process of elimination.

Cowboymom: I hear you. We’ve got a crate for him, but we haven’t been able to find it yet. We just moved here and are here temporarily so there’s quite a lot in the basement that we’ve not unpacked yet as we planned to store it here when we go overseas. Other than that, there are no doors on anything but the bedrooms and bathrooms and the bathrooms are very small. I think he’d be more stressed being kept away from his people. But generally, stress doesn’t seem to be in this guy’s repertoire. Frankly, he doesn’t even stress out when hospitalized. He loves people, loves attention, and doesn’t get bent out of shape about much other than shady people on the front porch.

I don’t get upset with him as far as the poo and he’s not usually with me when i discover it. Though he does hang out while I clean it. Usually though, he’s up in bed when I go down to make coffee and find the latest mess. Poor guy though.

Anyway…I’m housebound for a few days til husband comes back (with our car) so I can’t go get anything new to add to the mix anyway. But I really want to make sure that I approach things as methodically as possible so I’m not changing multiple variables at the same time.

I don’t think the endosorb and more probios will hurt anything. I am just hesitant to keep changing up the food until we’ve given something enough time to really know that it is or isn’t helping.

I swear, if the ACTH comes back and this IS Addisons and we’ve done all of this for months including the surgery and all…I’m just going to feel so awful for having put him through all of this. But it sure would be nice to get a definitive diagnosis.

Thanks again all of you. THis is only the uh…five millionth thread. I know. <rolls eyes> It will get better…

[Simkie]

WAHOO! Glad you got some sleep, BRoo, and that you woke up to no messes. Progress!!

[cowboymom]

excellent! I’m glad you had a normal night and didn’t have to spend any time with Rug Doctor today! Hope this continues!

[csaper58]

Glad you got some sleep, Endosorb will help, my dog is 70 lbs and takes 4 tablets
three times a day until symptoms resolve.(usually 24 hrs) And fast as long as dog is healthy and weight is OK.,and a few ice cubes at a time instead of water.Then if dog still has diarrhea eating Z/D try W/D it is also hypoallergenic with lots more fiber and alot less fat. Fat/oil is a big trigger for my dog to explode.
Stay strong things will get better!!!

[BuddyRoo]

This morning, I had more messes. So grrr…

I don’t think W/D will work for us for the allergy test, but I appreciate what you’re saying.

I AM going to make it to the next test. I am. I promise. But after that? I’m not sure. I need this to stop.

I’m so bloody tired of it.

[csaper58]

BuddyRoo, Can you board dog at vet so they can see firsthand the problem? All this started after major surgery yes? Could they have damaged the sphyncter nerve? Could they have left something in him? Could they have contaminated his gut? Happens to people all the time. Something is not right and your vet should to be more proactive. My vet would have the dog in hospital on IV drip to rest his gut (and his owner). Do you ever see blood or mucus in stool?
Rood & Riddle has this-
www.rrvp.com/butlercompany/diageldogdiarrheacontrol.htm?moreinfo
Diagel for dogs, doesn’t say it needs a perscription
I am sending constipated thoughts your dog’s way!