Stable planning: Run outs, rubber mats, stall floors!

[brightlights]

Hi everyone!

I am just beginning to look into building a barn and would love to borrow some of your opinions and experience.

Question 1:
I have long thought I would like to build run outs for each stall and am having a hard time finding agreement on whether they’re amazing, evil, or just a lot of work. The property we’re looking at is in Ireland, so we’ll be working with a lot of damp, drizzly weather, and great (if soggy) land. I’m currently in the Netherlands, with similar weather, and while I love the idea of run outs, several people have warned they’ll quickly become a slippery mess. Does anyone have any experience with this?

I’m aware they’ll be toilets, and that the bedding in the stalls will be tracked back and forth. I’m also the proud owner of a sand-digging, dirt-eating freak (we have looked at her nutrition…!), so that’s also a consideration. A lot of the stables in Europe seem to use stone/brick for run footing (http://roewer-rueb.com/sites/roewer-…?itok=f69umk4C, http://roewer-rueb.de/sites/roewer-r…?itok=DxITlVbh, whereas just about every image I’ve found from America uses sand, arena footing, or dirt. I won’t be able to do dirt as I’d end up with a mud pit, so that’s out. Otherwise I’m open, and would love to know your thoughts.

My horses are unfortunately not used to much turn out (yet), so the runs would just be for during the day and probably not too much bigger than the ones pictured. Really I just want them to have the option of getting out of the stall, keep everything circulating, and not give them too much room to get into trouble. They will also have a couple hours of paddock time, some form of exercise (5-6x/wk), and time in the walker each day. So what do we think? A good idea?

Question 2:
Stall footing! What do you think is best? Every stable I boarded at in America used some form of rubber matting. Over here, I keep hearing it’s bad for tendons. I would have thought otherwise as long as it’s not too thick. I know there’s a huge variety of mats, so there isn’t one answer, but I’d love to know if anyone has any thoughts/experience with this piece of it. I’m not sure about installing immediately as none of my horses are used to it and I’d be afraid to rock the boat, but I’d like to keep thinking about it for the future. Right now everyone is stalled on shavings over stone similar to what’s in the runs I linked to. Is there another/better option?

Thank you in advance!

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

I would guess the flooring in your photos to be some kind of rubber or composite paver or surfacing, and not stone or brick. Comfortable and non-slip under foot, but pricey.

Whether or not I would build a barn with runs would depend on how much land I had and how much time the horses were turned out.

Out in a large field (2+ acres/horse) for 12 hours or more? A run would be an unnecessary expense and just more area to maintain.

But… when turnout is limited, a run can be a nice way to get out in the sunshine and enjoy the fresh air. You can add a step-over barrier to help keep your bedding in the stalls. For the run footing, compacted road-base gravel with compacted screenings on top (and a little sand to cushion the very top) is a pretty inexpensive thing to do. Easy to clean up, too.

Then again… a sacrifice paddock (compacted gravel and a little sand) with a run-in at one end or side of the barn would allow for more socializing and movement, and undoubtedly be cheaper for a larger area than the materials you would need to construct individual runs.

As with many things horse… it depends!

Re: stall flooring. If your barn sits high enough that your stalls stay dry (and you don’t have a horse that creates his own swimming pool when he pees, or enjoys digging and pawing), a compacted dirt floor can be comfortable and is certainly cost-effective. Most of the barns I’ve boarded at or owned have had mats, though, and I’ve always appreciated the convenience. 3/4 printed rubber offers decent cushion and a non-slip surface when combined with a generous amount of bedding.

[fredrich]

1. I love the concept of stall to run in shed area to paddock/ runout. I had the option of leaving the stall door to the run in shed open for a breeze when it was hot out, locking the horse in the stall, whatever my need was. It was extremely flexible. My horses spent 90% of their time in the run in part, not the stall. The elevation was about two feet higher than the attached paddock so wet conditions were very rarely a problem unless it downpoured in the exact right direction. The horses also rarely used the stall for a bathroom, which was nice. We had a crushed limestone base.

2. I would be curious what the rationale is for rubber mats causing tendon issues? Have I had issues with horses slipping on poorly textured mats? Absolutely–but a textured mat with lime for traction and/or bedding that did not promote skidding has been wonderful for me. If you have a horse that digs, something “dig-proof” in the stall is valuable. It is no fun to walk in a stall and fall in a giant hole that wasn’t there the night before.

Best of luck on your adventure!

[Libby2563]

1. My stall runs with stonedust footing are one of the best investments I ever made! I didn’t have them when I first built the barn and adding them made chores so much easier. I don’t have enough land for mine to be turned out 24/7 without destroying the place, so they are in the barn/runs about half the time. Runs mean the horses don’t mix waste with clean bedding because they walk in and out rather than around in circles. As long as it’s not pouring rain or blazing hot, I hay them outside so they spend most of their time out there. Stall cleaning is SO much easier with the runs! Manure doesn’t mix into the stonedust and doesn’t usually get stepped on or moved around so it’s very easy to pick, and there’s no need to clean pee spots out there. Mud has not been an issue because of the stonedust. (We stripped quite a few inches of topsoil then added enough stonedust that the runs are higher than the surrounding grass. The runs are sloped away from the barn so they drain very well.)

For easy turnout, consider having a gate between your runs and the paddock so you don’t have to lead horses in and out (if your layout allows it). That would be my ideal setup.

2. My stalls are rubber mats over a compacted stonedust base and I’m happy with them. I’ve never heard of stall mats causing tendon issues either. The rubber is quite firm, not like walking on a squishy yoga mat or anything like that.

[Bluey]

I heard that uneven stall flooring and some of that is the stall mattresses, those soft bulky ones, are the ones that are harder on horse’s legs.

Not the hard, flat stall floors, with or without flat 3/4" mats on them.

Makes sense, considering how horse’s bodies are made and function.

[IPEsq]

I live where run outs are very common. It is very dry here, so they are relatively easy to maintain. Until there’s mud. My barn has very good footing in the runs, but some horses dig, some just move it around or it compacts or whatever, and then it has to be refilled, releveled, recompacted or else they are gross mud pits when we do get moisture. And also yes, the European footing for them is often the rubber pavers, which are great but $$.

One issue I’ve noticed is that craters get made by the doors from all the traffic especially if the mats in the stalls don’t quite make it to the door base, which in our case is not flush with the wood walls on the inside.

Finally, I really dislike any setup where horses can play over the fence. Stall size width runs are also too small for my horse to do any kind of playing in without hurting himself, so he doesn’t get to use his. I would prefer to have attached small stone dust paddocks over narrow runs, with fencing not touching if at all possible. That’s pretty hard to design, so if I were building from scratch, I’d rather make some sacrifice paddocks near the barn, larger stalls in the barn with back windows or Dutch doors because just being able to look outside seems to do them good. Give them more time outside in the paddocks and use the fields as conditions allow. Large enough sacrifice paddocks will have some high traffic areas to maintain, but less than individual runs’ worth of all high traffic areas. And in the long run, it may wind up being less footing and less fencing to buy. A little more trouble to run water to more places.

[tazycat]

My barn has rubber mats over top of packed hard dirt . Horses don’t have access to stalls or barn. Their pasture has a run in shed with mats no bedding in it. Barnyard is fenced with gate going out to pasture,come mud season horses are locked out of barnyard. Have enough land i don’t need runs off stalls. Horses are free to roam entire pasture all winter/spring and fall. Mats in stalls are worth the money spent ,easy to clean and keep dry. Dirt floors in stalls make for dirty looking stalls and horses can dig it up.

[Jungle_Monkey]

Rubber mats and the rubber interlock can be very slippery when wet…I’d probably try to do some kind of drainage, like you would do with a riding ring…4-5 inches of 1 inch compacted stone and then compacted stone dust, maybe some sand on top for traction…I’d be more inclined to have very large stalls and then turn out as possible. Depends on the horse and land really.

[trubandloki]

My stalls are open to individual paddocks. Outside the stall is a 10’ roof over hang that keeps the area right outside the stall from getting direct hit of rain or snow (not saying it always stays dry, but it certainly keeps the stall much more dry).
Stalls and over hang are a stone dust base with rubber mats. Stalls are bedded, overhang is not. The paddocks are stone since our native clay turns into a mess when it is wet. There is a door threshold they have to step over to get from the stall to the overhang/paddock area. That keeps most of the bedding inside the stall though they do track some of it out attached to hooves and hair.

The individual paddocks open to group turn out areas.

[Simkie]

I love runs. I hate–HATE–dealing with box stalls. I also have horses who are total pigs in box stalls :lol:

If you have a lot of wet, drainage is going to be important. You could install curtain drains to move the water away from your runs, and that would keep the mud down. Picking up the poop will be important so it doesn’t filter through your base and clog the drains.

At our last place, even the 12x12 runs off of the stalls on one side of the barn made a WORLD of difference in the mental health of the horses and the tidiness of their stalls. I disagree with IPEsq that stall-width runs aren’t useful. I can see how it might not be ideal in a boarding environment where you can’t choose your neighbors, but when you have a stable herd at home and can adjust neighbors at will based on what you see, it’s just not a problem. FAR better to have runs than not, IMO, even if they’re small.

With regard to footing, norm here is screenings from the quarry in the run, and 3/4" rubber mats over compacted screenings in the stall. This works well for thousands of barns. Exact composition of the screenings varies based on what kind of rock is common in the area. Guessing this is a “lot of roads to rome” sort of issue–and that’s why you’re hearing so many opinions. No way basic rubber mats contribute to tendon problems, though. They’re way too common here in the US, and have been in use for decades.

[IPEsq]

Lol Simkie, it’s less about the neighbors although that applies to all shared fencing situations. But my horse will try to buck and play in his run like he does in his paddock but he is too big for that and so we get legs going where they don’t belong. I also hate it when they go running in and out the doorway. Good way to fracture a hip if they aren’t careful (mine is not!).

There is next to nothing I like about having narrow stall wide runs. And of course I buy a horse who confirms all my biases!

[trubandloki]

I love my stall width runs. The horses are almost never totally closed inside their stalls, they have access to the outdoors, room to keep moving.
Since my group can not have access to stalls unless they are separated, the runs allow me to safely give them nice shelter but not close them inside totally.