stall flooring to prevent hock sores

[OTTBs]

So, I went with limestone floors in my stall. They are holding up pretty well but my boarder’s horses have hock sores. I got mats put down in one stall, and it was such a PITA that I said no more of that. The horse that moved into the matted stall has healed his hock sores.

Would Stall Skins or similar products prevent the hock sores? Does anyone put clay in as stall flooring anymore? Could that be done over the limestone? My final option that I came up with is to get a 10x10 interlocking stall mat for my 12x12 stalls so that I shouldn’t have to trim the mats to fit. Other ideas?

[NancyM]

IMO, limestone is great UNDER another flooring option, but it is caustic on skin if points of the horse come into contact with it. Limestone poisoning (entering through any break in the skin or abrasion) can be a real problem. So yes, some sort of layer of something on the stall floors is a good idea. Which you choose depends on what is available in your area, and how much money you wish to spend.

Once again, as I have posted several times here, I’ve done the rubber mat thing many times in several barns. They have their strengths and flaws. Interlocking mats or “stall skins” may be nice, I’ve never had the pleasure of either of these so can’t comment. My most recent choice for stall flooring has been wood planks, and they have worked out very well. An old time solution which works as well as they ever did. Was very cheap for me to use them, much cheaper than any mat option. I had the local saw mill cut some rough cut fir planks, 2 1/2 inches thick, and as long as I needed, made a support under them of treated 4X4s, and laid them down. No need to nail them. They are tight together, and make a “soft” surface, are very non slip, the sawdust bedding seems to stick nicely to the wooden surface, very secure. Nice, cheap, easy to install.

[Simkie]

I don’t think you’re going to want a 10x10 mat in a 12x12 stall. All sorts of stuff will get under the edge. Horses may try to pick it up. Cleaning the stall will be a PITA.

Perhaps you can pay someone to install the mats for you? I agree that it’s a brutal job.

How about a stall mattress system? Super selling point for boarders

[draftdriver]

Lots of bedding on top of the limestone should solve the problem. Let the bedding develop a bit of a packed layer right against the limestone.

[sascha]

10x10 mats will work in a 12x12 stall IF you deep bed as draftdriver said. The mats are great if you ever get a digger because some diggers are so committed they will paw through 10" of bedding and still rip up your limestone base.

If you don’t want to bed the stalls properly, something like stall skins would possibly work … but I’m not going to recommend that because there is no replacement for a properly bedded stall.

[csaper58]

What type of bedding are you using? Perhaps make the bedding deeper?

[OTTBs]

Using swift pick shavings, bedded so it feels soft under my feet–seems to be 3" maybe. The horse whose sores are now healed just throws his bedding to both sides of the stall, there is nothing in the middle in the morning. I can’t see any reasonable amount of bedding keeping him from hock sores if he weren’t on the mats. Not sure more bedding will help the other horse either if the hocks really dig down when he gets up. Sascha, your post doesn’t make sense to me: you admit a horse can paw through 10" of bedding, then talk about a “properly bedded stall.” Does that mean you use 12" of bedding? :eek:

No one can comment on stall skins helping the situation? I wish I could get very thin, cutable mats to cover the whole stall–maybe that would be like the cover for stall mattresses? Wonder if I could buy that by itself.

Any suggestions for how I would find someone to install mats if I gave in? Probably cost prohibitive, I’m betting. Or I could bed on straw–which I would if disposal weren’t an issue.

[Simkie]

If the base is level and compacted, you may just be able to get a handyman to install mats. If the base still needs work, talk to a couple landscape companies…it’s not that different than prepping a stone walkway.

I’ve bid it out and it’s really not that much $$…

[ladyj79]

I have stalled on concrete extensively and never in my life had hock sores. Add more bedding.

[CFFarm]

I love my stall skins! Worth every penny. Like any good job it’s all about the prep work. Get the drainage right.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=ladyj79;9040158]
I have stalled on concrete extensively and never in my life had hock sores. Add more bedding.[/QUOTE]

Me too, concrete, wood, dirt, it doesn’t matter so much as what you put on top of it and how you maintain it and yes, how your horse chooses to lay there and get up and down, all that could possibly matter for those that have hock sores.

Horses that came to us with those cleared right away, maybe we were just lucky not to have a real hard case?

[js]

Do the 12x12 interlocking stall mats in your stalls. They aren’t that difficult to trim if you need to; bending the mat over where it needs to be trimmed and having someone hold down the mat where it is bent and another cutting with a sharp exacto knife works great be sure to use a straight edge for marking and holding where it needs to be cut. Me and my husband did our 4 stall barn.

[2DogsFarm]

Agree with letting bedding pack down - semi-Deep Litter Method - over the limestone.
I suggest you try using a layer of wood pellets under the shavings.
The pellets break down, even if not wetted first, & in a day or so they are more like sawdust & will provide a cushioning layer over the limestone.
The wet/pee spots will darken & can be lifted & replaced with additional pellets in that spot only.
Or (like I did) switch from shavings to pellets completely.
Easier to pick, less waste & the used pellets compost faster.

[OTTBs]

[QUOTE=Simkie;9040109]
If the base is level and compacted, you may just be able to get a handyman to install mats.

I’ve bid it out and it’s really not that much $$…[/QUOTE] I watched two male friends do the trimming for my one stall that has mats. I can’t imagine who would want to take on that job for any amount of money! How did you “bid it out,” by calling several handymen?

[QUOTE=js;9040488]Do the 12x12 interlocking stall mats in your stalls. They aren’t that difficult to trim if you need to; bending the mat over where it needs to be trimmed and having someone hold down the mat where it is bent and another cutting with a sharp exacto knife works great be sure to use a straight edge for marking and holding where it needs to be cut. Me and my husband did our 4 stall barn.[/QUOTE] As I said above, “not that difficult” is not how I would describe cutting the mats. Have you found a special blade that you don’t have to run over the same groove in the mat 20x to cut through? The second male friend had an oscillating tool; it looked like less effort than the knife, but still was not a quick process by any means.

Everyone is welcome to come to IL and show me just how easy trimming mats is. 9 more stalls I could mat…

I do need to measure and see the exact dimensions of my stalls. First stall was done with 4x6 mats and I believe all but one mat needed to be trimmed. I know the kits are something like 11’7" square for a 12x12 stall.

[Simkie]

I watched two male friends do the trimming for my one stall that has mats. I can’t imagine who would want to take on that job for any amount of money! How did you “bid it out,” by calling several handymen?

Call a couple guys and explain what you’re looking to do.

I get that’s it’s not a fun or quick job, but it’s really not THAT bad. I’ve done it a couple times and getting the base ready is far more hellish than the actual cutting and installation of the mats.

Mark the line. Put 2x4 under the line to “bend” the mat away from cut. Use box cutter. Yeah, you have to go over the line several times, but if your blade is sharp and your 2x4 is in the right spot, it’s not that much work. Not much actual force is required. If force is required, the blade isn’t sharp or the 2x4 isn’t in the right spot…

Power tools tend to melt the mats and gum up the works.

[crosscreeksh]

MORE BEDDING!!! 3" of bedding isn’t enough on any base surface for a 1000 pound horse to lie on!

[ladyj79]

If you don’t have sufficient bedding and a horse lies down frequently or for long periods, mats will not help. Think bed sores.

[Princess_Sparkles]

2 things.

Trimming the mats really isn’t that bad. You just need sharper knives maybe? I worked at a barn that completely gutted and re-did all the stalls while I worked there–new walls, floors, etc. The floors were packed limestone with rubber mats cut to fit on top. Contractors installed everything, because they were also installing the new walls, but they did the mats an entire 24 stall barn in 2 or 3 days, and there were only 3 or 4 guys working. I can’t remember exactly what they used to cut them, I know they went through a lot of blades, but the hardest part was getting those last pieces in, because the fit had to be snug. I think it was like really heavy duty exacto-knives. I know it wasn’t a fun job, because I helped a bit, but it wasn’t so prohibitive that I would look for alternatives, because I think that is the best option.

Second thing–people saying “bed more” are unrealistic. Bedding is damn expensive, one of the biggest expenses a boarding barn has. My barn has 12 X 12 stalls, concrete floors with rubber mats, and I would say we put about 3 inches of bedding down (the wood pellet kind). There is absolutely nothing wrong with that amount of bedding. I know people like horses swimming in fluffy shavings, but that is not only a PITA to muck and a waste of shavings, but cost prohibitive unless you are charging like a grand a month for board. I consider myself to be a bedding Nazi–I like a horse with a soft bed. If you had bare concrete or limestone then yes, you are going to have to bed more, but in the long run it is so much cheaper to install the mats and bed less deeply. I know some high-end barns where the horses get a skiff of bedding over their pee spot and that’s it. I don’t like it, but horses don’t “need” 10-12 inches of bedding either. People that think that are usually boarders who have never kept a barn in their lives, or people who keep horses at home and only have a couple, so the costs and difficulty of it don’t really dawn on them.

[ladyj79]

I think that and I’ve never had my horses on full board, have boarded other people’s horses, and cared for Olympic horses.

Some horses will be fine with limited bedding, some will not. If the horse has hock sores, add more bedding. If you can’t afford to, charge that person more money. If you don’t want to, tell that person you cannot adequately provide or care for their horse and ask them to leave.

[ladyj79]

I also have to add, the question wasn’t about the economic perils of the boarding industry, it was about eliminating hock sores.