Stall kicker - at my wit's end, kicking chains or QuitKick?

[MsM]

Perhaps you can move your horse to the other stall and barricade the outside window. As it is he may hurt himself or his neighbor kicking out a board!

My horse was a bit of a problem in the stall when I first got him. (In stall about 12 hours a day, same as he had before). This barn had grills with yokes for doors and he would charge at horses passing and kick the walls at other times. Tried a couple of stalls. Eventually found that he needed a solid door with no horse able to reach into “his” space.

Another boarder horse weaved badly. He even did some in turnout but was particularly bad in the stall. Toys etc. didn’t seem to help. He had one neighbor, then none as that horse left and he was still weaving. Then another stall opened up and he was moved. Magic! It has been two months and almost no weaving. Don’t know why…

[erinmeri]

@house

That is not what I would call big, I would call that just barely adequate, assuming he is getting out every day for a couple of hours. Not know all the details about how he spends his day that would be where I would start

Considering that the vast majority of boarding barns are 12x12 (or 10x12) and many house large warmbloods on the order of 16-17 hands, I would call 14x14 for a 15hh horse “big”.

[erinmeri]

I agree with either trying to 1) finagle a new neighbor, and/or 2) trying the overnight turnout. I have seen “miracles” happen with both.

With the former, sometimes it is just a bad fit. My mare had “love affairs” with her gelding neighbors but they never affected her significantly. When she moved next to a very vocal, attached mare? She was a screaming nightmare when she was separated and sometimes became frantic under saddle if she could hear her bestie screaming for her. With her new neighbors? Back to her old self. Although she does hate her new neighbor, other than when he spills grain she can steal… LOL,

With the latter, have seen many a horse and pony go from fractious to docile merely by turning out overnight. Behavior improved, ulcers improved, etc. Since you have two that could go out adjacent, maybe that’s a possibility. Our biggest concern with night turnout is ensuring that the ones who are stalled are either okay with being solo (my gal), or are next to pals who stay in.

As for living out 24/7, that doesn’t work for all horses, or all properties. My horse would lose her ever loving mind.

I get the worry about your trainer’s anxiety, but I would think the anxiety of a horse or two out overnight would be better than the anxiety over horse injuring self kicking the stall.

[NancyM]

Well I haven’t read all the responses here, just some of them. I have not had a stall kicker of my own, but have known several that I did not own. One was “cured” (or stopped) successfully with kicking chains. It terrified me, but it worked.
The other was a horse that belonged to my vet, and was boarding at our farm. A “fancy” show hunter. Kicked the chit outta the walls of the stall at will, at feed time, anytime for any reason, and the stall was open 24/7 to the paddock. Fortunately, our stall walls were very strong, indestructable. But it was pretty scary to watch. The horse was moved to another boarding situation, box stalls without a paddock attached, which I felt was gonna be interesting. The stall walls were made of poured cement. He kicked that stall wall only once. Never again. Problem solved, I guess.

So there’s a couple of possibilities for you.

I think that some horses like to “make noise”… it gets attention. Any attention is good attention… the human comes over, waving arms and squeaking. This is “success” for this sort of horse. Same for a horse who hammers on his stall door with pawing. They like the noise, it “works”. One of my most favoured equines did this. He ran the barn, directed humans to do his bidding… whack, whack, whack on the door- “Hop to it, human!!!”. His stall was open to his paddock 24/7 always. I opened his stall door, and tied it open 24/7 with a stall chain across the doorway to keep him in, and put a rubber mat outside the door, in the aisle, so it made no noise to paw and he had nothing to whack. The behaviour stopped, because it didn’t work for him any more. He was always fed first anyway. He was smarter than most people I meet. And devious and inventive.

[sascha]

@NancyM

The stall walls were made of poured cement. He kicked that stall wall only once. Never again.

I’ve witnessed this exact same scenario. However, dedicated kickers or wall bashers (one I knew went after the walls with front feet and knees :o ) will get smart and go after doors which can wreak just as much havoc. One of those was solved by hanging a hinged mat half door inside the sliding door.

It was nice to be able to open the slider and let him hang his head out into the aisle, and super nice that he had nothing to practise his percussion skills on. “No more drum kit? Sad blue face. Oh well, I get to stick my head into the aisle and nobody else does, so I guess I win!”

[candyappy]

@spencerlucy

He is turned out for 8-10 hours per day - he isn’t in the stall full time. The comment about the cow was not a serious one, as I indicated when I said I wasn’t seriously considering it, plus it would have to be ok with the owner of the cow.

That still leaves 14 long hours in a 14x14 box. Some horses just will not submit to that happily. My milk cows all happily shared a pasture with my horses. Just need to make sure the horse isn’t one to chase cows is all.

ETA: There is no way at all to change his neighbor to where they are both happier?

[Bluey]

@candyappy

That still leaves 14 long hours in a 14x14 box. Some horses just will not submit to that happily. My milk cows all happily shared a pasture with my horses. Just need to make sure the horse isn’t one to chase cows is all.

ETA: There is no way at all to change his neighbor to where they are both happier?

I think the horse was doing fine in a stall before, this kicking is a new behavior?

i could be wrong …

[mmeqcenter]

@Bluey

I think the horse was doing fine in a stall before, this kicking is a new behavior?

i could be wrong …

Not according to the OP:

@spencerlucy

purchased him 4 years ago and aside from him making ugly faces at passing horses in the arena and horses walking past his stall, he would occasionally kick but over the past 8 weeks or so it has gotten out of hand

[mmeqcenter]

Add me to the 24/7 turnout train.

@spencerlucy

I’d like to find a way to get him turned out overnight but also want to be cognizant of my trainer’s feelings about having one (or two if we put my other guy out as well) out “unsupervised” overnight.

I have never understood this way of thinking. If you’re so stressed/anxious about horses being turned out “unsupervised,” you should probably rethink owning a farm. In my opinion, anyway.

[Bluey]

@mmeqcenter

@Bluey

I think the horse was doing fine in a stall before, this kicking is a new behavior?

i could be wrong …

Not according to the OP:

@spencerlucy

purchased him 4 years ago and aside from him making ugly faces at passing horses in the arena and horses walking past his stall, he would occasionally kick but over the past 8 weeks or so it has gotten out of hand

Well, the current over the top kicking seems to be new, what they just tried has not been solving the problem, why the thread?

[mmeqcenter]

For sure, over-the-top is new, but I wouldn’t call the previously described behavior as “doing fine in a stall before.”

[StormyDay]

I also agree that if possible 24/7 turnout is the best option here.
Maybe ask the barn owner if there’s a possibility that your horse and another horse could stay on 24/7 turnout, unless there’s inclement weather. I’m sure there is at least one other boarder that would be thrilled to do so.

If that is absolutely not an option, I’d see if you can put him in between two mares. Horses that are gelded late can have some STRONG opinions about other geldings. They usually will choose one or two ‘best friends’ and any other gelding is seen as a threat. But mares? They usually love every mare they see.

Storm was gelded late. He has a best friend who he loves, but most other geldings get on his nerves. If he was stuck next to one in a stall, he might start kicking too.

[erinmeri]

@StormyDay

If that is absolutely not an option, I’d see if you can put him in between two mares. Horses that are gelded late can have some STRONG opinions about other geldings. They usually will choose one or two ‘best friends’ and any other gelding is seen as a threat. But mares? They usually love every mare they see.

I would agree with trying this, but current (apparently hated) neighbor of my mare (who loves everyone, ESPECIALLY GREY GELDINGS) is a grey geldings who is sandwiched between two mares. I have never seen my mare be nasty to anyone, and she is nasty to him… and is apparently kinder than the other mare. So, no guarantees…